Thread: Baikal rail issue

Not sure if its the cheap Aliexpress rail or the rifle Dovetail is just not true

Got it sighted in - but right windage is at full 100 (no more left)
Not sure whether to try another rail at a huge cost that may not fix it or shim this rail ??
I was wondering - should I flip the rail so overhang is to the rear.
Below 2 pics are a Rail that locks down via 8 pressure keys - presume it be fine as the rail is at a dead end forward
Prob cost $200NZ :-(

Originally Posted by Mauser308

Not right, I mean too much left, no I mean that's just no good and not going to work!

That rail is pulling off square. They are a bugger for that, I have a similar one in my shitbits box. They need to be tight sliding fit to work right, and they never are. If they slip on loosely, no good. Just never seem to pull up square.

You can check it via the boresight method, center the scope by dialling full over one way, confirming the clicks all the way back and then halving the number back to center. Then fit everything up and boresight the target down the barrel and check scope alignment. The best system I've found for the short rails on the baikals are two direct-mount rings, and a scope with enough tube to be able to be positioned where you need to. Basically the smallest number of bits you can fit everything up with...

Looking at those photo's that's two different rifles and mounts, which one has the issue?

My rifle is the nicer looking one :-)
The top pic
The other Baikal is off a advert pic on E-bay with that sleek looking rail - see how it fits nicely over that little ridge to rear of the breach opening too
I not understand you guys saying about bore sighting
Not easy with a break action Baikal

Also @Mauser308 - what do you mean by
"Not right, I mean too much left, no I mean that's just no good and not going to work!"

Originally Posted by mimms2

Nah most I've seen will have one side clamping, and the dovetail cut permanently into the other.
Torquing them in order may make a difference. Shouldn't. I'd be going 1-3-2. or 2-1-3.

That is correct Re clamping - 1 side other fixed

Now - I know I am dumb regarding these tings - but I cant figure out what all the talk of " rings swapped fore/aft, rings turned left-right, swapped fore/aft again.centre your scope - turrets in middle of adjustment etc"
My scope is with QD Leupold rings - had it on a 243 Marlin prior - no problem
I had the Baikal setup with a Nighvision Pulsar last year - again on same rail and same problem - it was worse as I ran out of adjustment and gave the idea away.
This set up I now have sighted in - 1" high at 50m and centred L/R - but its at 100 on the X axis
My retical is centered in screen (hope this makng sense as you guys arnt maing sense to me :-)

This is a Thermal scope with a menu - not sure if this is same as a normal turret adjustable scope - think not ??

I will attach a utube to show the zeroing procedure
8.30 ish is best place on clip

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzkPsSbYopk

If there is any overhang from the mount going past the rear of the chamber then you will need to make sure the sight ramp on the action is filed down to a lower point or remove metal from the mount.

This will not be the issue at the moment on the top Baikal, but on the second one will cause issues. Seeing as the top one is yours, it is simply something to look out for if you turn yours around.

Now on your one I see the mount is pushed fairly well forward. Please look and make sure the mount is not catching on the flare at the front. The dovetail flares out at the front to stop mounts sliding forwards under recoil. Though this would usually end up with a wobble....to see if this is the issue, bring the mount back a few mm to where it is nearly flush with the rear of the chamber then tighten.

With the rings etc, what @Mauser308 is getting at is making sure that the rings are not off centre. They shouldn't be that that does not mean they wont be.

I usually clamp my barrel in a vice and look through it at a target / object at about 25m away looking through the barrel / bore. Then look through the scope and see where the cross hair is lined up on. (hopefully same place). Then swap rings front ring to back and back ring to front. And check again. Decent rings , and this should not make any difference, but sometimes it can. That is what he is suggesting.

Also worth trying to set it up so the QR knob is on the right side versus the left side.

Did you have a scope previously on here with rings fitting directly onto the Baikal base, if so was there any issues then.

Originally Posted by timattalon

If there is any overhang from the mount going past the rear of the chamber then you will need to make sure the sight ramp on the action is filed down to a lower point or remove metal from the mount.

This will not be the issue at the moment on the top Baikal, but on the second one will cause issues. Seeing as the top one is yours, it is simply something to look out for if you turn yours around.

Now on your one I see the mount is pushed fairly well forward. Please look and make sure the mount is not catching on the flare at the front. The dovetail flares out at the front to stop mounts sliding forwards under recoil. Though this would usually end up with a wobble....to see if this is the issue, bring the mount back a few mm to where it is nearly flush with the rear of the chamber then tighten.

With the rings etc, what @Mauser308 is getting at is making sure that the rings are not off centre. They shouldn't be that that does not mean they wont be.

I usually clamp my barrel in a vice and look through it at a target / object at about 25m away looking through the barrel / bore. Then look through the scope and see where the cross hair is lined up on. (hopefully same place). Then swap rings front ring to back and back ring to front. And check again. Decent rings , and this should not make any difference, but sometimes it can. That is what he is suggesting.

Also worth trying to set it up so the QR knob is on the right side versus the left side.

OK
But if the QD ring set up worked perfect on a rail on another rifle (in this case a weaver rail on a MArlin 243) then that should mean all OK in the Ring dept ???
I will shift the rail to the rear of the Dovetail and see if that makes any diff - I am not a 100% sure - but I thought I did clamp it tight further back (think of the exact reason you highlight) and mybe my sighting in yesterday had it has gone forward ?
I will retry it with marks etc

Originally Posted by mimms2

The reticle will always appear in the middle, but what's happening inside your scope is as per attach. Similar concept just with a CMOS sensor, I imagine.

May be quickest to give it, and a bottle of hooch, to someone who's done it once or twice.

if I not live in the wopp wopps - b bloody happy for someone to do ALL my sighting in

Step 1 check the chinese POS. Should be quite apparent visually if it's off. Clamp it up on a bit of 11mm/ 3/8" dovetail bar (certain planer blades fit) that's longer than the pic-rail. Check for discrepancy. File to correct.
POS = ??

Paint your front ring blue and the rear one red.
Now put the red one forward, and the blue one at the back. (swap fore/aft)
See the QD levers both on the right hand side? Try mounting so the front one is on the left. Then try them both on the left, then vice-versa, swapsie-roundsies until you get near-as-on without adjusting scope.

So the fact the exact same setup (rings and scope not rail) wored fine on another rail and rifle does not mean they OK ?

OK thanks guys
One last dumb Q
Because I am maxed out on wingage - BUT - she is dead on at 50m (which is distance I sighted in at as I have nowhere with more range)
Will it still be on at 100m or will she be sending bullet further right the farther it goes b4 impact ??

id try turning the rings around first

yip Tim beat me too it...we ended up taking smal triangle file to front of dovetail to make groove go further forward.....but sliding it to the back is best...there is a grub screw you could make small hole for too which will mean it cant move...

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

yip Tim beat me too it...we ended up taking smal triangle file to front of dovetail to make groove go further forward.....but sliding it to the back is best...there is a grub screw you could make small hole for too which will mean it cant move...

If you look at the top of the dovetail there should also be a groove for the grub screw to go into as a recoil stopper.

Originally Posted by Sarvo

but I thought I did clamp it tight further back (think of the exact reason you highlight) and mybe my sighting in yesterday had it has gone forward ?

If this has happened then it is very likely the recoil grub screw may need to be used, especially if there is not enough grip in the clamp under recoil.

If the groove is not in the right place for the grub screw there is two options- drill a small hole into the top of the dovetail for the grub screw or drill and thread the rail so the grub screw is above the groove.

Feel free to email me if you need help. When you first mentions Baikal and issue in the title I thought you may have had issues with the 410........

Ive dont the reverse rings on more than one rifle with good results...nothing to loose trying it.... either switch for n aft OR turn one around the other way and see if its closer...then try same with other.... and then with both... its only got to be a tiny bit different to matter.

Originally Posted by Sarvo

My rifle is the nicer looking one :-)
The top pic
The other Baikal is off a advert pic on E-bay with that sleek looking rail - see how it fits nicely over that little ridge to rear of the breach opening too
I not understand you guys saying about bore sighting
Not easy with a break action Baikal

oh contray my good man its piece of piss to bore sight with a break open......even easier than with bolt all you need is a firm clamp of some sort or a box with two grooves in it,one at each end...you dont even need the stock.....sit it somewhere and look through the bore,keep jiggling box till you can see something.letterbox,top of fence post,house in distance...idealy something about a hundred yards away.....then look through scope and see where Xhairs are pointing.

using a coloimetre/boresighter you MAY find with scope mounted that high you can zero for sideways but the Xhair will be way off centre of picture on bore scope verticlly...

Originally Posted by timattalon

If you look at the top of the dovetail there should also be a groove for the grub screw to go into as a recoil stopper.



If this has happened then it is very likely the recoil grub screw may need to be used, especially if there is not enough grip in the clamp under recoil.

If the groove is not in the right place for the grub screw there is two options- drill a small hole into the top of the dovetail for the grub screw or drill and thread the rail so the grub screw is above the groove.

Feel free to email me if you need help. When you first mentions Baikal and issue in the title I thought you may have had issues with the 410........

Hi Tim
No that Baikal will be a point and shoot - been walking round today with dogs trying to flush sonething out to fire its 1st shot - but no luck yet

Re other 7.62x39 Baikal
Mmm - I dont think I grubbed any key/screw as there was no where to seat it - and I also think I had rail back 1/2mm clear of breach/break face knowing the issue I had last time
I also could not understand that 3 times I shifted ret + to right and onto new bullet hole and it needed exact same next two trys (but thought maybe I did not do a final hold of main menu button to lock the shift in)
With these Thermal scopes - You fire at Bull - then freeze frame pic - them use menu and shift ret+ over to bullet hole (which is still glowing hot) - push set/lock and - usually its all over in 1 shot.
So I think it has moved up - but it still was way over from my bore sighting b4 going to range, so need to try and rectify that.
Might even change the rings and deff flip to opposite etc