Thread: Baikal rail issue

Not sure if its the cheap Aliexpress rail or the rifle Dovetail is just not true

Got it sighted in - but right windage is at full 100 (no more left)
Not sure whether to try another rail at a huge cost that may not fix it or shim this rail ??
I was wondering - should I flip the rail so overhang is to the rear.
Below 2 pics are a Rail that locks down via 8 pressure keys - presume it be fine as the rail is at a dead end forward
Prob cost $200NZ :-(

If there is any overhang from the mount going past the rear of the chamber then you will need to make sure the sight ramp on the action is filed down to a lower point or remove metal from the mount.

This will not be the issue at the moment on the top Baikal, but on the second one will cause issues. Seeing as the top one is yours, it is simply something to look out for if you turn yours around.

Now on your one I see the mount is pushed fairly well forward. Please look and make sure the mount is not catching on the flare at the front. The dovetail flares out at the front to stop mounts sliding forwards under recoil. Though this would usually end up with a wobble....to see if this is the issue, bring the mount back a few mm to where it is nearly flush with the rear of the chamber then tighten.

With the rings etc, what @Mauser308 is getting at is making sure that the rings are not off centre. They shouldn't be that that does not mean they wont be.

I usually clamp my barrel in a vice and look through it at a target / object at about 25m away looking through the barrel / bore. Then look through the scope and see where the cross hair is lined up on. (hopefully same place). Then swap rings front ring to back and back ring to front. And check again. Decent rings , and this should not make any difference, but sometimes it can. That is what he is suggesting.

Also worth trying to set it up so the QR knob is on the right side versus the left side.

Originally Posted by timattalon

If there is any overhang from the mount going past the rear of the chamber then you will need to make sure the sight ramp on the action is filed down to a lower point or remove metal from the mount.

This will not be the issue at the moment on the top Baikal, but on the second one will cause issues. Seeing as the top one is yours, it is simply something to look out for if you turn yours around.

Now on your one I see the mount is pushed fairly well forward. Please look and make sure the mount is not catching on the flare at the front. The dovetail flares out at the front to stop mounts sliding forwards under recoil. Though this would usually end up with a wobble....to see if this is the issue, bring the mount back a few mm to where it is nearly flush with the rear of the chamber then tighten.

With the rings etc, what @Mauser308 is getting at is making sure that the rings are not off centre. They shouldn't be that that does not mean they wont be.

I usually clamp my barrel in a vice and look through it at a target / object at about 25m away looking through the barrel / bore. Then look through the scope and see where the cross hair is lined up on. (hopefully same place). Then swap rings front ring to back and back ring to front. And check again. Decent rings , and this should not make any difference, but sometimes it can. That is what he is suggesting.

Also worth trying to set it up so the QR knob is on the right side versus the left side.

OK
But if the QD ring set up worked perfect on a rail on another rifle (in this case a weaver rail on a MArlin 243) then that should mean all OK in the Ring dept ???
I will shift the rail to the rear of the Dovetail and see if that makes any diff - I am not a 100% sure - but I thought I did clamp it tight further back (think of the exact reason you highlight) and mybe my sighting in yesterday had it has gone forward ?
I will retry it with marks etc

Did you have a scope previously on here with rings fitting directly onto the Baikal base, if so was there any issues then.

OK thanks guys
One last dumb Q
Because I am maxed out on wingage - BUT - she is dead on at 50m (which is distance I sighted in at as I have nowhere with more range)
Will it still be on at 100m or will she be sending bullet further right the farther it goes b4 impact ??

id try turning the rings around first

yip Tim beat me too it...we ended up taking smal triangle file to front of dovetail to make groove go further forward.....but sliding it to the back is best...there is a grub screw you could make small hole for too which will mean it cant move...

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

yip Tim beat me too it...we ended up taking smal triangle file to front of dovetail to make groove go further forward.....but sliding it to the back is best...there is a grub screw you could make small hole for too which will mean it cant move...

If you look at the top of the dovetail there should also be a groove for the grub screw to go into as a recoil stopper.

Originally Posted by Sarvo

but I thought I did clamp it tight further back (think of the exact reason you highlight) and mybe my sighting in yesterday had it has gone forward ?

If this has happened then it is very likely the recoil grub screw may need to be used, especially if there is not enough grip in the clamp under recoil.

If the groove is not in the right place for the grub screw there is two options- drill a small hole into the top of the dovetail for the grub screw or drill and thread the rail so the grub screw is above the groove.

Feel free to email me if you need help. When you first mentions Baikal and issue in the title I thought you may have had issues with the 410........

Originally Posted by timattalon

If you look at the top of the dovetail there should also be a groove for the grub screw to go into as a recoil stopper.



If this has happened then it is very likely the recoil grub screw may need to be used, especially if there is not enough grip in the clamp under recoil.

If the groove is not in the right place for the grub screw there is two options- drill a small hole into the top of the dovetail for the grub screw or drill and thread the rail so the grub screw is above the groove.

Feel free to email me if you need help. When you first mentions Baikal and issue in the title I thought you may have had issues with the 410........

Hi Tim
No that Baikal will be a point and shoot - been walking round today with dogs trying to flush sonething out to fire its 1st shot - but no luck yet

Re other 7.62x39 Baikal
Mmm - I dont think I grubbed any key/screw as there was no where to seat it - and I also think I had rail back 1/2mm clear of breach/break face knowing the issue I had last time
I also could not understand that 3 times I shifted ret + to right and onto new bullet hole and it needed exact same next two trys (but thought maybe I did not do a final hold of main menu button to lock the shift in)
With these Thermal scopes - You fire at Bull - then freeze frame pic - them use menu and shift ret+ over to bullet hole (which is still glowing hot) - push set/lock and - usually its all over in 1 shot.
So I think it has moved up - but it still was way over from my bore sighting b4 going to range, so need to try and rectify that.
Might even change the rings and deff flip to opposite etc

Originally Posted by Sarvo

Hi Tim
No that Baikal will be a point and shoot - been walking round today with dogs trying to flush sonething out to fire its 1st shot - but no luck yet

Re other 7.62x39 Baikal
Mmm - I dont think I grubbed any key/screw as there was no where to seat it - and I also think I had rail back 1/2mm clear of breach/break face knowing the issue I had last time
I also could not understand that 3 times I shifted ret + to right and onto new bullet hole and it needed exact same next two trys (but thought maybe I did not do a final hold of main menu button to lock the shift in)
With these Thermal scopes - You fire at Bull - then freeze frame pic - them use menu and shift ret+ over to bullet hole (which is still glowing hot) - push set/lock and - usually its all over in 1 shot.
So I think it has moved up - but it still was way over from my bore sighting b4 going to range, so need to try and rectify that.
Might even change the rings and deff flip to opposite etc

Not what I meant. The grub screw is a bolt that goes through the metal. Think of a bolt with the head cut off and a recessed driver head of some sort, usually hex. Like this https://nz.rs-online.com/web/p/grub-...crews/1870721/

They normally screw down from through the rail inside a ring. You can see it on this product.



On the rifle the dovetail should look like this



One of te screw will go down and engage with the groove to stop recoil movement. Not usually found on weaver as the groove in weaver interlock with the holds on the rings this stopping slippage.

Originally Posted by timattalon

Not what I meant. The grub screw is a bolt that goes through the metal. Think of a bolt with the head cut off and a recessed driver head of some sort, usually hex. Like this https://nz.rs-online.com/web/p/grub-...crews/1870721/

They normally screw down from through the rail inside a ring. You can see it on this product.

Attachment 145461

On the rifle the dovetail should look like this

Attachment 145462

One of te screw will go down and engage with the groove to stop recoil movement. Not usually found on weaver as the groove in weaver interlock with the holds on the rings this stopping slippage.

Yes - I understood - will look today

Ive dont the reverse rings on more than one rifle with good results...nothing to loose trying it.... either switch for n aft OR turn one around the other way and see if its closer...then try same with other.... and then with both... its only got to be a tiny bit different to matter.

I had a Baikal in 243 years ago, it was a good setup (happily did < 1" @ 100m) so I did some digging. This is I used: https://www.trademe.co.nz/sports/hun...2706131849.htm (I looked back in my trademe history)

Originally Posted by vulcannz

I had a Baikal in 243 years ago, it was a good setup (happily did < 1" @ 100m) so I did some digging. This is I used: https://www.trademe.co.nz/sports/hun...2706131849.htm (I looked back in my trademe history)

We have used a few of those as well. If you look atthe picture relatively closely, you can see where the grub / recoil screw goes through to the bottom.

The choice of mount system we used on the Baikals varied depending on what scope the owner wanted. Rails like the one listed there were good for "normal" 3-9x40s etc as it allowed enough height with rings to clear the rear blade sight if it was retained.

For compact or similar scopes we used one piece units and occasionally drilled and tapped the top to fit a flat rail for low profile scopes or ones that were wanted low mounting.

In the second one down, the air gun mount has had the underside modified significantly so that it would mount around the flare on the front of the dovetail. We milled out the clamping surfaces.

I am not a fan of using the "two rings" in the lower image as that does not support the scope as well as it could. With shorter scopes it may work depending on eye relief.

The flat rail that has been fitted would also need the rear sight ramp to be filed down so it is lower than the top of the dovetail. If this is not done the rifle will not fully close and it won fire if the chamber is not closed (or it shouldn't) If you look carefully you can see under the rail there is a groove for the recoil screws. (Please note in that image the rail is sitting on the rifle and is not screwed into place- it was done to show the lowest mounting height.

First I would remove scope and rings and sight along the groove in the rail to the end of the barrel to see if the end of the barrel is tending off to one side. I have a rifle that has this issue and I could not alter the alignment of the rail to the barrel/action. I fixed it by using Burris rings with the offset inserts to give me windage rather than elevation. Previously it had Leupold quick release rings that would change POI every time the pressure on the lever changed. As pointed out earlier there may be a bit of fudge room with your current rings not being identical to allow some gain by swapping back/front and turning them around.