Has anyone here actually seen this ?
What did you see through the borescope ?
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Has anyone here actually seen this ?
What did you see through the borescope ?
it was common in day when pull throughs were the norm and folks would drag it out on angle..apparently.
Ive always been cautious so dont know anymore than that.
Load of rubbish people claim a brass brush will damage a steel barrel. Yeah right. Use a bore guide to protect chamber from the rod. People claim drawing the brush back down the bore on the back stroke will damage the crown another old wife tale. I've looked down my so called over cleaned barrel with a borescope no damage. If you don't want to wear your barrel out cleaning it fine corrosion will do the job for you. And yes stainless barrels do corrode.
Have you ever tried to push a projectile (that is the correct size) down a barrel? And then follow it with a bit of carbon etc. Good luck. Every shot fired through a barrel does a lot more damage than any amount of cleaning ever will...in my opinion anyway
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I’m sure it’s possible with poor quality cleaning rods, aggressive solvents and poor processes, but I also think too many shooters baby their barrels. A brass or synthetic brush is much softer than barrel steel and only likely to cause damage in the hands of someone with no understanding. Personally I use bore guides and remove my brush if it passes the crown. Other than that I clean regularly and leave a light coating of CRC Long Life in the bore.
It probably more the case that insufficient cleaning causes more problems. There are often threads on here regarding carbon rings and barrels suddenly coming good after a real rod out to get carbon out of the grooves and copper off the lands.
I’m also a believer in a light polish of the throat with Autosol every couple of hundred rounds.
This is an emotive subject, and, like religion or1080, not worth arguing about. Find what works for your needs in your rifles and get out to shoot.
Over cleaning or wrong cleaning technique has led to the early demise of many barrel. Cleaning from the muzzle with aluminium or plastic coated rods can cause muzzle wear due to fine abrasive dust trapped on the surface of the rod. Bronze brushes should always be pushed completely through the bore before pulling them back, on the few occasions that you need them. The correct cleaning technique is to push a wool mop that has a liberal amount of good quality bore solvent on it, right through the barrel from the breech end. Blued rifles need to have the surplus solvent wiped off the outside of the firearm with a dry cloth, then leave the gun for about 30 minutes or so before wiping out with a dry patch, followed by a lightly oiled patch. Job done! Push a dry patch through the bore before firing.
@gundoc are there any particular solvents for cleaning carbon and/or copper that you've found to be better than others?Quote:
Originally Posted by gundoc
CLR will remove Carbon extremely effectively, for copper I just use Boretech or whatever it's called
I have always been a fan of Hoppes #9 (especially the original formulation), but Sweets is OK, and there will be others that are suitable. It is important to use a product that contains a metal fouling solvent (eg; ammonia or similar).Quote:
Originally Posted by Seventenths
Old School cleaning solution.
Mix equal Parts
Heavy mineral oil
Distilled turpentine (vegetable turpentine)
Acetone
Keep mixture sealed so acetone does not evaporate
How? lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Mauser308
Have you got photos of any of those you could post ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mauser308
Any idea what the solvent was that caused the damage ?
I would suspect sweets or something else with a lot of ammonia ?
A good mate of mine who is a qualified chemical engineer looked at me sideways and suggested it's not the most brilliant thing to do as it reacts with steel.
When I read about it I was keen as to try it.
I will stick to the best cleaner I have ever used which is wipe out combined with accelerator.
Unbeleivable!
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That applies to most organic solvents, including white spirits.Quote:
Originally Posted by 7mmwsm
I don't think acetone is high on any list for causing toxicity to your ears or balance, but in industry it's often mentioned because it gets used alongside nastry stuff like xylene and styrene and so gets a co-mention. Acetone does seem nasty. It will burn, get it on your hands it truly dries the skin more than alcohol will (a very useful and potent degreaser!), it dissolves plastics and polystyrene and some varnishes so you really have to be sure before you use it. But Acetone is actually a very safe solvent to inhale and get on your skin except for getting dermatitis because protective oils get stripped. Safer than alcohol which IS a carcinogen and which we drink. Wearing rubber gloves is a great idea no matter what solvent you use.
If you go past your mealtime you actually have natural acetone in your blood stream as it's one of the chemicals we refer to as "ketone bodies" and which come from fat breakdown and our body uses them for energy. But again, in very high amounts bets are off.
=andyanimal31 hey mate I saw on a previous post that you had purchased a TRG22 and was wondering if you where looking to sell it.
thanks Arran
Result after a gentle Hoppes #9.
Havnt cleaned the 308 T3X for a few months and had a few rounds thru it.Theres a bit of hunting to do in the next 6 months.Went to the range,group was a bit spread like 1.5 inchs.So went home and gave the bore 2 patchs of Hoppes,then 4 dry till clean patched.Gave the bolt face a clean and chamber.Crown a gental wipe.Went to the range next morning,no wind.Took my time and fired one shot.That will do me.
Attachment 151171The clean cold bore kill shot I hope.
So if you did have a little rust in your barrel, how would you go about removing it? Different method for stainless barrel or blued steel?
A little as in once the carbon fouling is gone, there's a very light amount of orangey brownish color on the patch after it's gone through with a bit of oil on it.
I’ve been guilty in the past of using Autosol on a patch to ‘derust’ a barrel - as its abrasive (in a very mild way) caution would be advised if you use it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rated M for Magnum
Ah I see @Finnwolf I have a little in the barrel of my cz 452, it still shoots awesome, just a result of some hopped #9 that I must not have cleaned out properly. I have seen peread that people use CLR for carbon and wondered if that might do it without being abrasive?
It's not cleaning that ruins barrels... it is cleaning in stupid ways.
Fullbore target shooters and benchrest guys must be the most OCD rifle cleaners I have ever encountered, and I don't see them "ruining" barrels by over-cleaning....
I had a match barrel that I cleaned after every single string (10 to 15 shots). It showed no signs of going bad after about 2000 rounds. The cleaning probably had more to do with my confidence level in the barrel doing exactly the same during each string.... It was a Lilja that once run in would copper very little. Most strings I would just clean out the carbon. End of the day it got a good soak to remove copper, and probably every 200 or 300 rounds it got the business with JB bore paste.
What CLP/gun oil are you using? That brownish colour on your patch might actually be copper. Being that a lightly oiled patch has been put thru the bore, it can 'soak' up the copper fouling. It won't come out blue, but brown.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rated M for Magnum
Don't stress or obsess over the barrel it more than likely won't be rust. I have non treated steel bog standard tools sitting in my garage (not my dehumidified) safe, and they don't go rusty.
Ah ok @Sasquatch I didn't realise it could do that. Ah yes ng Hoppes 9 lubricating gun oil. I gave the barrel a few good pass through a with an oily bronze brush last time and I've just pulled it out of the safe to check and I've got no brown this time, this one used to give a distinct rifling pattern of a more orangey color. Gone now :thumbsup:
It's the howa stainless that gives the light brown, I'm going to see if I can do the same with that today and see what happens.
Ive got in habit of a lightly oiled/CLP patch run through bore after shooting...then a dry one,then another lightly CLP one and put it away......seems to work fine. the CLP is so light that if I neglect to dry patch it before use its no biggie.... interesting comment re CRC and scopes....it explains why for a time I went through scopes on regular basis,with fogging......we live n learn.
Old military style steel 3 piece rods, especially when bent, aren't great.
Same as the pull through dragged across the crown.
Regarding fine rust: I don't think carbon fouling is protective against rust so some sort of oil in the barrel when you go out on a hunt seems a good idea. I mean oil the barrel with whatever your poison (not ammonia or watery stuff like boretech) then dry patch several times and there will be an unremovable film left to protect. My opinions are that Hoppes #9 dries to a bit of a gum so is not so good for storing between hunts, while very low viscosity "penetrating" oils like CRC 5.56 and Kroil go so thin they eventually separate and leave bare metal.
Test your cold bore shot as shown above by @Trout.
I'd be interested in people's thoughts on how to recover from plain fine rust. My inclination would be clean the barrel with oil as you should have, quite a bit of rust will rub off on patches, perhaps some will come out with a phosphor bronze brush and the rest will return to virtually nothing after you "put another shot through to clean it out". I have used butches bore paste specially on the first few inches of the barrel but I think that's more for fire cracking and stubborn carbon fouling. What do you think @ebf ?
Chamber end carbon scrub I normally wet a mop or patch with Kroil, push it thru and let that soak in for 5-10 min. Then put a patch on a jag, wet that with slightly thicker oil like Breakfree CLP, and then apply abbrasive paste on top of that.
Once you are done scrubbing, you want to make REALLY sure you remove all abbrasive, so use something like brake cleaner or even meths. Remember that an abbrasive polishing compound will create a black patch, so don't think the patches will eventually come clean :D By that stage you would have created a small caliber smooth bore :P
You really need yo look down the barrel with a borescope to see if you have removed serious carbon (or rust). Bores scopes are a game changer interest of cleaning.
Thanks EBF.
I’l do a clean out with meths next time after the paste.
Its actually JB paste ive used.
Any one got any tips on how to get pitting out of a barrel?
Agree re the borescope for cleaning. Takes the guesswork out of it. Often find residual carbon or copper that’s a surprise. And then focus the technique. Arguably reduces any risk of overcleaning...Quote:
Originally Posted by ebf
Sadly it’s there forever.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat ninja
(To remove pitting you have to remove metal....)
]Sadly it’s there forever.
(To remove pitting you have to remove metal....)
Typical, I lent a gun to a mate and it came back pitted. Won’t be doing that again.
A very good point, as this had me fooled for a long time - barrels that never seem to come clean.Quote:
Originally Posted by ebf
This. I haven't got the "gunsmith eye" that apparently can see down barrels.Quote:
Originally Posted by ebf
Aqueous ammonia is an effective and inexpensive way of removing copper fouling, if/when that is required.Quote:
Originally Posted by andyanimal31
Both mild and stainless steels are used in the manufacture and storage of ammonia, and while there can be corrosion issues, this depends more on other contaminants that are present than the ammonia itself. The reaction time-frames when this does occur are long. Reports to the contrary are good for selling the much more expensive alternatives. Do not store the ammonia anywhere near your brass.
Here is a recent summary with references.
http://eurocorr.efcweb.org/2018/abstracts/7/101877.pdf
You've got to be careful with Sweets as it contains a lot of ammonia. Some years back I saw a fairly new stainless Shilen select match barrel that was completely rooted because the owner left Sweet's in it and forgot about it until the next day. It was darkish grey to look at and even after extensive cleaning and using JB paste it wasn't able to be saved. Expensive mistake.Quote:
Originally Posted by gundoc
I pretty well stay with Collings #90 and Ballistol.
Remove barrel from rifle, cut off barrel where pitting is. Re-crown and you're good to go. If you want to save time dont remove barrelQuote:
Originally Posted by Fat ninja
In all seriousness though, that's a bit shit of your mate.
Haha it is quite bad, yea it’s pretty stink. Lesson learnt tho
Yes; same.Mine is a full red tin can like the old powder container shape. Paper label has "Parker Hale's four point plan" for all gun cleaning with Stephen Youngs. Nice to keep.Quote:
Originally Posted by 7mmwsm
