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I emailed Beretta NZ and they have no plans on bringing in the ARX 100, So whats the best way to get it from the states, if it is possible for A Cat.
I would need the stock pinned, and as for the pistol grip, well who knows at the moment and what the new rules will be.
I like the quick changing between the 5.56 and 300 blackout barrels
It looks like a guppie
Considered an AR with different uppers?
Just looked at a review of them, they look to be better than an AR, the charging handle system, mag catch system and ambi ejection and safety are all better. I would sell my AR for one if they were reasonably priced.
I can't see any advantages an M4 has over this rifle.
im a Leftie, and i like the ambi ejection :)
They are made by Benelli for Beretta (owned by beretta group), same factory as the military ARX 160.
its similar to my Benelli MR1, but i can't see these being cheap
They might be ok, but so many M4 "replacements" have come and faded into obscurity - the SCAR, ACR, XCR, XM8 even the piston AR's.Quote:
Originally Posted by Savage1
Yes but the M4 has some pretty big flaws and it's only a matter of time until they get replaced. Stoppage drills and ambidextrous use is unnecessarily difficult with them.
I think the American arrogance has a lot to do with the M4 doing so well. If I had to pick a weapon for combat, an M4 would be down the list, not a long way though. That Magpul gun looks the business.
Adaptive Combat Rifle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
new military weapons Bushmaster ACR Remington ACR - YouTube
If it is reliable and cheap I'll be selling whatever I have to in order to get one.
I really prefer the construction and the slimness and ergos of the AR to all the giant bulky polymer 'next gen' gats none of which has really taken off
The AR charging handle location does suck and the bolt lock is in a stupid place. Still be better than a big plastic boat anchor.
most of the people who have a choice in what gats they use (~*special forces*~) seem to choose ARs of some flavour
The ACR is a really unrefined design, the quick barrel change feature sucks, and Bushmaster make it = puke.
They look pretty though I'll give it that. I'm still really happy running AR's. I just bought an LAR 8, which has an L1A1 type bolt release, wonder how many times I'm gonna try and hit the bolt release paddle that isn't there?
A properly put together M4 is a farkin sweet weapon. Crazy reliable.
Quick barrel changes dont appeal to me when you need to change optics anyway. I dont do iron sights.
Upper changes are the way to go. new scope, new barrel ect.
ar15s are easy enough to shoot either way, how often are you likely to shoot off the opposite shoulder? if your left handed get a RRA left handed AR15.
best thing about ar15s is we can get them, ACRs are cool, and the cool factor would mean big$ in nz
Ambi is important for when you have to shoot left-handed around cover in a gunbattle, bro. Not that this is relevant to us at all.
easy enough to do, I have left hand comps at the range with my right hand ar15
only cause I saw them doing it on magpul carbine vid...
Huh ? Where do you get your info from ?Quote:
Originally Posted by gimp
Quote:
Originally Posted by ebf
Most of the pictures of SAS, NZSAS, AUSAS, Delta, Seals, etc largely running around with AR pattern gats
If you have any proof to the contrary go ahead
And most of those pics are training or publicity shots ;)
Think more along the lines of whatever the "locals" are using... 90% of the globe that is AK
For anti-terror and cqb they'd be using issue stuff. I suspect if you look at it worldwide rather than just US, H&K would be a lot more common.
http://images-kitup.military.com/wp-...-SAS-kabul.jpg
noted publicity shots such as
Also this seems like a pretty long list copied from wikipedia (hah)
Users[edit]
Afghanistan: Used only by Afghan Army commandos.[44][45] M4s sold as part of a 2006 Foreign Military Sales package.[46] Additional M4s sold as a 2008 Foreign Military Sales package.[47]
Australia: Used by the Special Operations Command, Clearance Divers.[48] and Police Tactical Groups[49]
Bangladesh: Used by Bangladesh Paracommandos, Dhaka Metropolitan Police SWAT teams and Special Warfare Diving And Salvage[50][51]
Bahrain: M4A1s sold as a 2008 Foreign Military Sales package.[47]
Belize: M4s/M4A1s sold as part of a 2006 Foreign Military Sales package.[46]
Brazil: Used by Military Police of Rio de Janeiro State,[52] the Brazilian Federal Police and Special Forces of the Brazilian Army and Brazilian Navy.[53]
Canada: C8 rifle.[54]
Chile: Used by the Special forces and Special Operations Brigade "Lautaro" of the Chilean Army, Special forces and Marine Infantry of the Chilean Navy and Police Special Operations Group (GOPE) of Carabiniers of Chile.[citation needed]
Croatia: User since 2003, several hundred purchased for Croatian ISF contingent as well as special forces in Croatia. [3]
Czech Republic: Bushmaster M4A3 B.M.A.S. is used by (601st Special forces group, Military police, 43rd Airborne mechanized battalion) of Czech Army.[55]
Colombia: M4A1s as part of a 2008 Foreign Military Sales.[47]
Denmark: C8 rifle.[citation needed]
Ecuador: M4s sold as a 2008 Foreign Military Sales package.[47]
El Salvador: M4s sold as part of a 2007 Foreign Military Sales package.[56] Additional M4s sold as a 2008 Foreign Military Sales package.[47]
France: Used by the 1st Marine Infantry Parachute Regiment and Commando Marine, each special forces[citation needed]
Georgia: Bushmaster AR-15 and M4 for police and military. Producing own analogue variant of the M4A1 (G5 rifle) by Scientifical Technical Center Delta.[57][58][59]
Greece: Used by EKAM.[60]
Hong Kong: KAC SR-16 by Special Duties Unit of the Hong Kong Police Force[61]
Hungary: M4A1 SOPMOD by Hungarian Special Force[62]
India: M4A1s as part of a 2008 Foreign Military Sales.[47] M4A1 is used by the Mizoram Armed Police, and Force One of the Mumbai Police.[63][64]
Indonesia: Used by Detachment 88 Counter-terrorism Police Squad operators.[65] Also used by Komando Pasukan Katak (Kopaska) tactical diver group and Komando Pasukan Khusus (Kopassus) special forces group.[66]
Iraq: Used by the Iraqi Army.[67] Main weapon of the Iraqi National Counter-Terrorism Force.[68]
Israel: Sold as part of a January 2001 Foreign Military Sales package to Israel.[69]
Italy: Only Special Forces[70]
Jamaica: M4s sold as part of a 2007 Foreign Military Sales package.[56]
Japan: M4A1s as part of a 2008 Foreign Military Sales package.[47] M4A1 SOPMOD rifles are in use by the Japanese Special Forces Group.[71]
Jordan: M4s sold as part of a 2007 Foreign Military Sales package.[56] Additional M4s sold as a 2008 Foreign Military Sales package.[47]
Kosovo: M4 Colt.[72]
Kuwait:[73][74]
Lebanon: M4 components being sold to Lebanese special forces.[75] M4/M4A1s sold as a 2008 Foreign Military Sales package.[47]
Macedonia: M4s sold as a 2008 Foreign Military Sales package.[47]
Malaysia: Made under license by SME Ordnance Sdn Bhd.[76] Used by special forces of the Malaysian Armed Forces, along with special forces of the Royal Malaysia Police.[77] Standard issue rifle of the Malaysian Armed Forces
Nepal: Sold as part of a 2005 Foreign Military Sales package.[78]
New Zealand: Used by NZSAS operators and the police Special Tactics Group.[79][80]
Pakistan: M4A1 variant used by Special Services Group of the Pakistan Army.[81][82]
Panama: M4A1s sold as a 2008 Foreign Military Sales package.[47]
Philippines: M4/M4A1s sold as a 2008 Foreign Military Sales package.[47] Two variants of the M4 carbine are made by Floro International Corporation, consisting of the M4A1 5.56MM RIFLE and the M4A1 Model-C 5.56MM RIFLE.[83][84]The Philippines ordered another 50,629 M4 Rifles from US-based manufacturer Remington. This will be used by the Philippine Army and the Philippine Marine Corps.[85]
Poland: Used by Polish special forces unit Grupa Reagowania Operacyjno-Manewrowego (GROM).[86]
Portugal: Used by Marines special forces DAE (Destacamento de Acções Especiais).[87]
Republic of Korea: Used by special forces units of National Police and Coast Guard.[citation needed]
Saudi Arabia[citation needed]
Serbia: Used by various police units.[88]
Singapore: Used by the Singapore Armed Forces Commando Formation.[89]
Suriname: Used by the Suriname Armed Forces
Taiwan: Used by Republic of China Army and National Police Agency[90]
Thailand: M4A1s sold as part of a 2006 Foreign Military Sales package.[46]
Tonga: M4/M4A1s sold as a 2008 Foreign Military Sales package.[47]
Tunisia: M4s Used by Tunisian Special Forces such as BAT, BNIR, UCGN, USGN.[citation needed]
Turkey:Used by Special Forces[91]
United Arab Emirates: Purchased 2,500 M4 carbines in 1993.[92]
United States[54]
Yemen: M4s sold as part of a 2006 Foreign Military Sales package.[46]
Anywho, back to the main point: the beretta thing is buttugly
Hehe, so now that you've proven your ability to copy and paste, why don't you delete every reference in that list that is not specifically SF.
"Used by" and "issued to / firearm of choice" are two very different things.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ebf
Because I don't really give a shit and neither of us has any definitive source to quantify the truth of my flippant comment that "most SEEM to use Some AR variant", which is hardly a concrete assertion in the first place
What are the other personal weapons western SF use? My guess is M4's, C8's and 416's are the predominantly the main carbines
TAR-21
SG 551/552
Galil
G36
FAMAS
Rgr. I don't really follow it.
Lol if there's more people using POS tavors than AR platform gats
why (in your opinion) is the tavor a POS gimp ?
uh, they're ugly
Also real reasons from what I've seen: heavyish at 8lbs bare, terrible-to-average-at-best trigger, don't run well suppressed, bad gas blowback, mag position sucks for reloads, not true ambi, only average accuracy, ergos suck for anything more precise than offhand shooting, half of these are of course problems with every bullpup but whatever, I don't think I'd pay $2000US for one
The sig 551/552 and galil are both cousins of the AR! point made ARs rule. Aaand the reason you see SF carrying AKs is cos that's the ammo that the dead bad guys are carrying. Those Seals and delta you see with a fucked old AK have nice ARs at home, but no ammo for them at work. And the Famas looks like a trumpet and the G36 is HUGE and as for the Tar 21, cant believe you bought it up.Quote:
Originally Posted by ebf
Admittedly the galil is the best of both AR and Ak like all things Israeli.
I dunno dawg really in terms of operating mechanics I think the Sigs are more like an AK
And the Galil too. I don't see how it has anything to do with an AR mechanically or in design family
Fuck, sorry I was thinking of the 556, 551/2 is a cousin of the ak, anywho AR is the shit, why? because we can get them here!
I have had a bit of a mare here to be honest. maybe I was thinking of the Merkva tank. Im leaving now :oh noes:Quote:
Originally Posted by gimp
There are other rifles out there , some better , some worse than the DI AR15 type .
Me I would take a SIG550 or AUG , or maybe HK33/53 , or Galil , Stoner63A over most others in 5.56mm , .
HK 416/417 piston rifles used my more countries than you would at 1st think .
As to the M16/M4 or any other contender , so what , honestly it has some times little to do with how good a rifle is over another , most times it comes down to timing & marketing over reality , RE the Galil , most Isreali soldiers wanted to have the M16 instead of thier own home grown Galil .
Why is that , is it because the M16 is more reliable , better , stronger etc NO , all they want is the lightest rifle possible to carry to the coffee shops etc .
Some times the end user has no or little input as to what rifle is adopted or not adopted .
As to the great SCAR , meant to be driven by US SF , who where disatisifed the M16/M4 DI rifles , wanted more .
Interesting to see the SCAR lite issued for about 3 mths , and with then with drawn , nice , why , because the parts supply conflicted with the M16 ( you would think they knew that when the ordered them ) , and they did not offer enough over a std M4 to justify keeping them ? , that sounds like logistics talk and not end user talk to me .
What is kept is the SCAR heavy ( 7.62x51mm ) as this enough different & offers things the others donot ? , reah right , its not like the US uses ANY AR10/SR25 rifles do they .
Interesting that the HK33F won the French army trialls in mid 70s , against the M16 & FN CAL , by quite a margin , Opps , the French did not like the results , so decided they would not have any of the 3 trialled , but design a complete french rifle was the only right thing to do .
Later Chris
What is also interesting is the rifle the Brit SAS specied from Diemco , they went with a heavier and longer barrel than the std M4 , for improved reliability & accuracy , maybe all those M203/HK320s where bending the lite M4 barrels .
For those that donot know the barrels made by Diemco , where coldhammer forged & cromelined , as such they last 2-3x longer than a std USA M4 barrel , so thats 10k for the US variants & 30k for the Canadian M16s , thats a bit of a difference .
The Dutch who brought a boat load of Canadian M16/M4 rifles , now re-arming with new HK416 variants .
At the moment , most Armies have a 7.62x51mm AR10 type rifle in service as a DMR , and its either a SR-25 , LMT or a HK417 , and at the moment the last 2 are the most used variants .
Later Chris
You guys maybe interested to know that during the Vietnam war the US Seals used some HK33 rifles , most have seen the odd photo from the top of a rifle that looks like a HK , and have thought it was a G3 , just like I did .
The photo was looking down into a boat from above and you can see its a HK type cocking tube etc , you cannot see , side on to see the mag or any other detail .
It appears it was a limited number of German made HK33 rifles with 40rd mags , that where sent marked H&R T223 , as if they where made in the USA by H&R , they where not , they are German made , and where an entry in the early squad machinegun trialls in 1965 during the war .
Seems the seals liked them , and carried a few into battle with them in Nam .
The USMC did coy level trialls with the Stoner63 , they liked them and wanted them instead of the M16 , but the US wanted one rifle as standard rather than 2 .
The Stoner63 would have been maybe better for them than the M16 , as in the surf, beach area & salt water environment , maybe steel would hold up better than Aluminium .
It was certainly much more modular in design , rifle , carbine , belt & mag feed LMG versions etc .
Later Chris