Welcome guest, is this your first visit? Create Account now to join.
  • Login:

Welcome to the NZ Hunting and Shooting Forums.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed.

Terminator Alpine


User Tag List

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 19
Like Tree12Likes

Thread: British Proofs

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    canterbury
    Posts
    6,157

    British Proofs

    Can one of you knowledgeable gents please decode these British proofs for me

    Cheers

    Name:  20231001_201107.jpg
Views: 319
Size:  899.6 KB
    The Church of
    John Browning
    of the Later-Day Shooter

  2. #2
    Member Kimber 7mm-08's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Location
    Arrowtown
    Posts
    696
    Found two of them. Will find the others in a bit.
    Name:  20231002_220207.jpg
Views: 469
Size:  2.43 MB
    akaroa1, Moa Hunter and 40mm like this.

  3. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    canterbury
    Posts
    6,157
    Quote Originally Posted by Kimber 7mm-08 View Post
    Found two of them. Will find the others in a bit.
    Attachment 234668
    Ok that's cool
    London proof and visual inspection after proof

    Hope the other one gives a clue to what proof it received

    Cheers
    The Church of
    John Browning
    of the Later-Day Shooter

  4. #4
    Member Kimber 7mm-08's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Location
    Arrowtown
    Posts
    696
    Found this for you. Looks to be London Proof House 1813-1855.
    Name:  proof.jpg
Views: 272
Size:  246.2 KB
    Moa Hunter likes this.

  5. #5
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    canterbury
    Posts
    6,157
    Ok they are all there on the left hand side in 1887 to 1896

    I know from the Army and Navy records of P Webley and son serial numbers that it was made in early 1893

    There must be another proof mark there somewhere to tell me if it's BP or NP
    The Church of
    John Browning
    of the Later-Day Shooter

  6. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2021
    Location
    Tauranga
    Posts
    5,111
    The rest of the article the photo is from might help:

    https://www.vintageguns.co.uk/magazi...ed%20in%201896.

    The thing there is the NP mark was not in use until 1896 - so if it predates the marking that indicates the practice of nitro proof testing was 'regulated' then it would have to be BP?????

  7. #7
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    canterbury
    Posts
    6,157
    Quote Originally Posted by No.3 View Post
    The rest of the article the photo is from might help:

    https://www.vintageguns.co.uk/magazi...ed%20in%201896.

    The thing there is the NP mark was not in use until 1896 - so if it predates the marking that indicates the practice of nitro proof testing was 'regulated' then it would have to be BP?????
    Yes agree re NP and BP proofs around that time

    This is late BP and not marked BP because everything was BP anyway.

    It has a very long freebore ( not wear ) so I think it was for big bullets like the .500/570/120 3" which was a thing and Jeffery was making them in 1894
    The Church of
    John Browning
    of the Later-Day Shooter

  8. #8
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2023
    Location
    Northland
    Posts
    230
    Belgian and french maker proof marks links here:
    https://web.archive.org/web/20191121....com/More.html

    I have a few pages printed out including english, but no scanner so maybe I'll get to the library some time.

  9. #9
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    canterbury
    Posts
    6,157
    I have been over every surface looking for any further proof marks.

    Nothing

    The Visual proof is also on the action water table.

    But no BP proof visible.

    P Webley and Son
    London address

    So works in with the London proof house.

    I'm not worried about not knowing the BP or NP though.
    It's a late BPE gun.
    Barrel is fluid steel and double A&D under lugs.
    It's all in perfect mechanical condition.
    So I will be running it with 100 grains 1 1/2 FG black powder and a 450 grain PC bullet.

    Normal working charge in the day was 120 to 140 grains BP
    Micky Duck likes this.
    The Church of
    John Browning
    of the Later-Day Shooter

  10. #10
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    canterbury
    Posts
    6,157
    In 1894 Jeffery's were selling martini auctioned 500 3" that were designated
    .500/570/120

    This Webley is from the exact same period.
    It has a very long freebore and obvious lead to the rifling.
    So I wonder if this rifle being a late BP gun was a heavy bullet rifle rather than an express rifle.

    When were jacketed bullets starting to be used in big bore rifles I wonder ?
    The Church of
    John Browning
    of the Later-Day Shooter

  11. #11
    Member norsk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    2,541
    Quote Originally Posted by akaroa1 View Post
    In 1894 Jeffery's were selling martini auctioned 500 3" that were designated
    .500/570/120

    This Webley is from the exact same period.
    It has a very long freebore and obvious lead to the rifling.
    So I wonder if this rifle being a late BP gun was a heavy bullet rifle rather than an express rifle.

    When were jacketed bullets starting to be used in big bore rifles I wonder ?
    Martini Henry's have a long lead that acts a bit like a forcing cone,I can't remember the throat diameter off the top of my head but its quite different from the muzzle diameter.

    Good question regarding the jacketed bullets,I guess when smokeless became more prevalent?
    "Sixty percent of the time,it works every time"

  12. #12
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    canterbury
    Posts
    6,157
    Quote Originally Posted by norsk View Post
    Martini Henry's have a long lead that acts a bit like a forcing cone,I can't remember the throat diameter off the top of my head but its quite different from the muzzle diameter.

    Good question regarding the jacketed bullets,I guess when smokeless became more prevalent?
    @norsk The long lead suckered me into thinking it was a .500 3 1/4"
    I did diameter tests to make sure the bullets would comfortably release from the 3 1/4" cases I made from 470 NE brass.
    When I fired the first three rounds with an 80 grain light load there was a very obvious perfect line around every case mouth at the 3" length.
    So it was actually a .500 3" chamber and long lead.

    This has made life a lot easier for me because both my 500 BPEs are 3" now and both are relatively modern ( for BPE rifles ), strong actions and have conventional rifling. 1:60" on the 1885 ( so a light bullet BPE ) and 1:40" on the Webley ( so maybe a heavy bullet barrel ) .
    They can both safely share ammo between rifles and between loads.
    The Nitro for Black load I generally use in the 1885 ( because its milder to shoot and easier to clean in that rifle ) will be fine in the Webley and the 100 grain BP load I'm developing for the Webley will be safe but dirty in the 1885.

    I'm keen to keep the Webley BP though because being a break action takedown rifle it is absolutely childs play to clean out the BP fouling.
    @Micky Duck will be visiting this weekend and he is younger, strong enough and I expect keen ( silly ? ) enough to do some load testing from the bench with me.
    Micky Duck and norsk like this.
    The Church of
    John Browning
    of the Later-Day Shooter

  13. #13
    Member Marty Henry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Tararua
    Posts
    7,048
    Prone. That's the only proper way for a gentleman to load test😉

  14. #14
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    canterbury
    Posts
    6,157
    Quote Originally Posted by Marty Henry View Post
    Prone. That's the only proper way for a gentleman to load test��
    I'm glad to be a peasant then

    But @Marty Henry please post the videos of you shooting the Martini 500 prone in your tweed pants and jacket.
    I assume your man servant filmed it
    Micky Duck likes this.
    The Church of
    John Browning
    of the Later-Day Shooter

  15. #15
    Member Micky Duck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Geraldine
    Posts
    24,634
    im my youth I learnt all about stout loads in light gun and prone.....creeping up on black or brown and white things while using a very light .12ga with 1 1/4 oz field loads...if I got close enough it was up and boom off elbows of they were up n away...poor form often resulted and with nowhere to go all the recoil went directly into shoulder....
    75/15/10 black powder matters

 

 

Similar Threads

  1. British BSA 303
    By Carlo in forum Firearms, Optics and Accessories
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 19-09-2021, 10:34 AM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Welcome to NZ Hunting and Shooting Forums! We see you're new here, or arn't logged in. Create an account, and Login for full access including our FREE BUY and SELL section Register NOW!!