Thread: British Proofs

Can one of you knowledgeable gents please decode these British proofs for me

Cheers

Found two of them. Will find the others in a bit.

Originally Posted by Kimber 7mm-08

Found two of them. Will find the others in a bit.
Attachment 234668

Ok that's cool
London proof and visual inspection after proof

Hope the other one gives a clue to what proof it received

Cheers

Found this for you. Looks to be London Proof House 1813-1855.

Ok they are all there on the left hand side in 1887 to 1896

I know from the Army and Navy records of P Webley and son serial numbers that it was made in early 1893

There must be another proof mark there somewhere to tell me if it's BP or NP

The rest of the article the photo is from might help:

https://www.vintageguns.co.uk/magazi...ed%20in%201896.

The thing there is the NP mark was not in use until 1896 - so if it predates the marking that indicates the practice of nitro proof testing was 'regulated' then it would have to be BP?????

Originally Posted by No.3

The rest of the article the photo is from might help:

https://www.vintageguns.co.uk/magazi...ed%20in%201896.

The thing there is the NP mark was not in use until 1896 - so if it predates the marking that indicates the practice of nitro proof testing was 'regulated' then it would have to be BP?????

Yes agree re NP and BP proofs around that time

This is late BP and not marked BP because everything was BP anyway.

It has a very long freebore ( not wear ) so I think it was for big bullets like the .500/570/120 3" which was a thing and Jeffery was making them in 1894

Belgian and french maker proof marks links here:
https://web.archive.org/web/20191121....com/More.html

I have a few pages printed out including english, but no scanner so maybe I'll get to the library some time.

I have been over every surface looking for any further proof marks.

Nothing

The Visual proof is also on the action water table.

But no BP proof visible.

P Webley and Son
London address

So works in with the London proof house.

I'm not worried about not knowing the BP or NP though.
It's a late BPE gun.
Barrel is fluid steel and double A&D under lugs.
It's all in perfect mechanical condition.
So I will be running it with 100 grains 1 1/2 FG black powder and a 450 grain PC bullet.

Normal working charge in the day was 120 to 140 grains BP

In 1894 Jeffery's were selling martini auctioned 500 3" that were designated
.500/570/120

This Webley is from the exact same period.
It has a very long freebore and obvious lead to the rifling.
So I wonder if this rifle being a late BP gun was a heavy bullet rifle rather than an express rifle.

When were jacketed bullets starting to be used in big bore rifles I wonder ?

Originally Posted by akaroa1

In 1894 Jeffery's were selling martini auctioned 500 3" that were designated
.500/570/120

This Webley is from the exact same period.
It has a very long freebore and obvious lead to the rifling.
So I wonder if this rifle being a late BP gun was a heavy bullet rifle rather than an express rifle.

When were jacketed bullets starting to be used in big bore rifles I wonder ?

Martini Henry's have a long lead that acts a bit like a forcing cone,I can't remember the throat diameter off the top of my head but its quite different from the muzzle diameter.

Good question regarding the jacketed bullets,I guess when smokeless became more prevalent?

Originally Posted by norsk

Martini Henry's have a long lead that acts a bit like a forcing cone,I can't remember the throat diameter off the top of my head but its quite different from the muzzle diameter.

Good question regarding the jacketed bullets,I guess when smokeless became more prevalent?

@norsk The long lead suckered me into thinking it was a .500 3 1/4"
I did diameter tests to make sure the bullets would comfortably release from the 3 1/4" cases I made from 470 NE brass.
When I fired the first three rounds with an 80 grain light load there was a very obvious perfect line around every case mouth at the 3" length.
So it was actually a .500 3" chamber and long lead.

This has made life a lot easier for me because both my 500 BPEs are 3" now and both are relatively modern ( for BPE rifles ), strong actions and have conventional rifling. 1:60" on the 1885 ( so a light bullet BPE ) and 1:40" on the Webley ( so maybe a heavy bullet barrel ) .
They can both safely share ammo between rifles and between loads.
The Nitro for Black load I generally use in the 1885 ( because its milder to shoot and easier to clean in that rifle ) will be fine in the Webley and the 100 grain BP load I'm developing for the Webley will be safe but dirty in the 1885.

I'm keen to keep the Webley BP though because being a break action takedown rifle it is absolutely childs play to clean out the BP fouling.
@Micky Duck will be visiting this weekend and he is younger, strong enough and I expect keen ( silly ? ) enough to do some load testing from the bench with me.

Prone. That's the only proper way for a gentleman to load test😉

Originally Posted by Marty Henry

Prone. That's the only proper way for a gentleman to load test��

I'm glad to be a peasant then

But @Marty Henry please post the videos of you shooting the Martini 500 prone in your tweed pants and jacket.
I assume your man servant filmed it

im my youth I learnt all about stout loads in light gun and prone.....creeping up on black or brown and white things while using a very light .12ga with 1 1/4 oz field loads...if I got close enough it was up and boom off elbows of they were up n away...poor form often resulted and with nowhere to go all the recoil went directly into shoulder....