Thread: Building a big gun?

I've gone down the 338 Edge route. Not because I felt the extra horsepower was at all necessary for shooting deer - because it isn't - you can anchor stags out to good distances with much less than a RUM or an Edge. Micky's not wrong (though I reckon I'll die of shock if he ever recommends something other than a round nose ).



Taken a long time to get it going because of some mechanical issues. It's shooting the 285 ELD at 2830.

Originally Posted by Pommy

I've gone down the 338 Edge route. Not because I felt the extra horsepower was at all necessary for shooting deer - because it isn't - you can anchor stags out to good distances with much less than a RUM or an Edge. Micky's not wrong (though I reckon I'll die of shock if he ever recommends something other than a round nose ).

Attachment 196102

Taken a long time to get it going because of some mechanical issues. It's shooting the 285 ELD at 2830.

Nice, whats it weight and what optics?

Originally Posted by tikka

Nice, whats it weight and what optics?

More than 5kg which is all my kitchen scales go up to. I reckon 6-6.5kg. Leupold LRP currently until I can afford something better.

You replied to my thread 2 years ago. I dunno how tf you're getting the speed you are from the barrel and amount of powder you're using.

You want a “big gun”, you want to be able to “anchor the big stag on the spot”. I get the appeal of bigger, better, new shiny toys, etc - it’s a guy thing, & an itch we all luv to scratch - but I’d approach this from a different angle, cos you’re going to spend a shit load of $ if you build said toy, that you won’t ever recoup. I assume your primary purpose is hunting not paper or gongs.

How far (real world) do you expect to be taking shots on live game ?
Realistically, most of the time it will be sub 300 yds, and occasionally you might get the chance to stretch legs to 500 – 800, even more rarely 1000 ? In my books 5 – 600 yds on game is bloody long way in attempting an ethical shot on a game animal in mountain terrain. My rule of thumb is the rifle/shooter/ammo must be consistently capable of 0.5 moa or better and conditions favorable.
A bigger hole in the wrong place will never beat a slightly smaller hole in the right place.
Have you had experience firing a big 30 cal ? or 338 ? or similar ? If not, try to hook up with someone who has one and put some lead down range.
Did you enjoy it ? were you able to shoot ½ moa or better ?
Many folk find the recoil and/or muzzle blast from a big 30cal a big step change from 7mm or 6.5 magnums, for some the experience is downright unpleasant, even with a big arse suppressor or brake.
To get the performance from big 30cal you’re going to need to run 26in bbl and heavy pills to get decent BC (more recoil).
Then you want to consider the joys of dragging a big, long, heavy rifle thru the bush and scrub. 95% of the time will be spent carrying the rifle not shooting it.
If majority of long range hunting shots are sub 1000 yds & more likely 5 – 800 yds then you are better served by a lighter set up and calibre (again assuming you/platform can achieve ½ moa consistently). There are plenty of options in 7mm and 30cal, perhaps even 6.5 magnum. In 30 cal the 3006 or 3006ai or 300WSM with 180 – 200gn high bc pills will do the job nicely, without the need for 300WM or bigger. Your handle “7saum” - looks like to have a pretty good option right there, or 284 or 280ai or 7mm RM or if you want “big” 7mm RUM or N28. From experience the 7mm Blaser mag is pick of the bigger 7’s.

Originally Posted by chainsaw

You want a “big gun”, you want to be able to “anchor the big stag on the spot”. I get the appeal of bigger, better, new shiny toys, etc - it’s a guy thing, & an itch we all luv to scratch - but I’d approach this from a different angle, cos you’re going to spend a shit load of $ if you build said toy, that you won’t ever recoup. I assume your primary purpose is hunting not paper or gongs.

How far (real world) do you expect to be taking shots on live game ?
Realistically, most of the time it will be sub 300 yds, and occasionally you might get the chance to stretch legs to 500 – 800, even more rarely 1000 ? In my books 5 – 600 yds on game is bloody long way in attempting an ethical shot on a game animal in mountain terrain. My rule of thumb is the rifle/shooter/ammo must be consistently capable of 0.5 moa or better and conditions favorable.
A bigger hole in the wrong place will never beat a slightly smaller hole in the right place.
Have you had experience firing a big 30 cal ? or 338 ? or similar ? If not, try to hook up with someone who has one and put some lead down range.
Did you enjoy it ? were you able to shoot ½ moa or better ?
Many folk find the recoil and/or muzzle blast from a big 30cal a big step change from 7mm or 6.5 magnums, for some the experience is downright unpleasant, even with a big arse suppressor or brake.
To get the performance from big 30cal you’re going to need to run 26in bbl and heavy pills to get decent BC (more recoil).
Then you want to consider the joys of dragging a big, long, heavy rifle thru the bush and scrub. 95% of the time will be spent carrying the rifle not shooting it.
If majority of long range hunting shots are sub 1000 yds & more likely 5 – 800 yds then you are better served by a lighter set up and calibre (again assuming you/platform can achieve ½ moa consistently). There are plenty of options in 7mm and 30cal, perhaps even 6.5 magnum. In 30 cal the 3006 or 3006ai or 300WSM with 180 – 200gn high bc pills will do the job nicely, without the need for 300WM or bigger. Your handle “7saum” - looks like to have a pretty good option right there, or 284 or 280ai or 7mm RM or if you want “big” 7mm RUM or N28. From experience the 7mm Blaser mag is pick of the bigger 7’s.

This is all very sensible indeed and comes from decent experience.

@saum7 i have 284's, a 7mm Saum, a 28 Nosler running 195's at 3100, and a 300 Rum, running 210's, all light hunting weight rifles. Both the 28 Nosler and the 300 Rum are 26" barrels.

I generally shoot deer at much greater distances than most, average is 500-650 yrds with my longest deer just shy of 1000 yards. What rifle do i take 95% of the time? and therefore shoot nearly all of these deer with?......My 7mm Saum, why, because I like carrying it, it's short in comparison to the big guns, its heaps lighter, only 3.1kg inclu the 4-20x50 dialing scope, and even just using a 162 Amax at 3050 fps it smashes deer hard at the ranges I usually shoot them at, inside 700 yards.

The big guns are fun, and they get their outings, but they spend most of their time sitting in the safe feeling jealous of their little brother the 7mm Saum who gets all the action.

I see you are in Hastings, im in Napier, you are welcome to meet me at the gravel pit range sometime and have a shot or two with the 300 Rum and see what you think

Originally Posted by chainsaw

You want a “big gun”, you want to be able to “anchor the big stag on the spot”. I get the appeal of bigger, better, new shiny toys, etc - it’s a guy thing, & an itch we all luv to scratch - but I’d approach this from a different angle, cos you’re going to spend a shit load of $ if you build said toy, that you won’t ever recoup. I assume your primary purpose is hunting not paper or gongs.

How far (real world) do you expect to be taking shots on live game ?
Realistically, most of the time it will be sub 300 yds, and occasionally you might get the chance to stretch legs to 500 – 800, even more rarely 1000 ? In my books 5 – 600 yds on game is bloody long way in attempting an ethical shot on a game animal in mountain terrain. My rule of thumb is the rifle/shooter/ammo must be consistently capable of 0.5 moa or better and conditions favorable.
A bigger hole in the wrong place will never beat a slightly smaller hole in the right place.
Have you had experience firing a big 30 cal ? or 338 ? or similar ? If not, try to hook up with someone who has one and put some lead down range.
Did you enjoy it ? were you able to shoot ½ moa or better ?
Many folk find the recoil and/or muzzle blast from a big 30cal a big step change from 7mm or 6.5 magnums, for some the experience is downright unpleasant, even with a big arse suppressor or brake.
To get the performance from big 30cal you’re going to need to run 26in bbl and heavy pills to get decent BC (more recoil).
Then you want to consider the joys of dragging a big, long, heavy rifle thru the bush and scrub. 95% of the time will be spent carrying the rifle not shooting it.
If majority of long range hunting shots are sub 1000 yds & more likely 5 – 800 yds then you are better served by a lighter set up and calibre (again assuming you/platform can achieve ½ moa consistently). There are plenty of options in 7mm and 30cal, perhaps even 6.5 magnum. In 30 cal the 3006 or 3006ai or 300WSM with 180 – 200gn high bc pills will do the job nicely, without the need for 300WM or bigger. Your handle “7saum” - looks like to have a pretty good option right there, or 284 or 280ai or 7mm RM or if you want “big” 7mm RUM or N28. From experience the 7mm Blaser mag is pick of the bigger 7’s.

Big thumbs up for 7mm blaser mag . Mines pushing 180eldms at 3100 fps with no big pressure signs. 26 inch barrel still light enough rifle with a nx8 4x32 . Recoil manageable with supressor don't think I need to go with brake . Eats a 7mm rem mag and stuff all behind a 28 nosler with 10 grains less powder

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28" barrel 280ai pushing 180eldms @ 3150. Hot load and half your brass life but know it has taken big bull tahr out to 1140yds. With a terminator break it is very pleasant to shoot. Yes the barrel is long but on the tops or the open it is fine. Not.so.nice scaling a kanuka face to your rusa lookout haha

But you would be silly not to take @GWH up on his offer. A real life test of a proper cannon

cheers for all the advise guys.
yes I have a 7mm Saum & 284

This year I did fell a bit under gunned tbh that's just my opinion. I lost a good stag which I hit in the front shoulder obviously never found so cannot say 100% it was but im sure of the shot.
my mate also shot a good stag with my 284 at 450M hit it and dropped a few minutes later it was up and walking 2 shots later it was down 2nd wasn't the best placement as it was moving.
at a guess the stag we recovered would have been 130-140kg gutted with head off.

I have shot 2 300 rums now and taken a stag one and it hit like a freight train.
I have also seen at 338 edge at work with the same result.

instead of building something im going to hold out and wait for something 2nd hand to pop up hopefully save a bit of coin if it doesn't work out I will on sell it.

The saum should anchor anything with the right pill bad placement is bad placement no matter the cannon

Originally Posted by saum7

cheers for all the advise guys.
yes I have a 7mm Saum & 284

This year I did fell a bit under gunned tbh that's just my opinion. I lost a good stag which I hit in the front shoulder obviously never found so cannot say 100% it was but im sure of the shot.
my mate also shot a good stag with my 284 at 450M hit it and dropped a few minutes later it was up and walking 2 shots later it was down 2nd wasn't the best placement as it was moving.
at a guess the stag we recovered would have been 130-140kg gutted with head off.

I have shot 2 300 rums now and taken a stag one and it hit like a freight train.
I have also seen at 338 edge at work with the same result.

"front shoulder" is a big area and a deer is obviously a 3 dimensional object. Unless you had gotten to both those animals and autopsied them to see the path the bullets took and what damage they did along the way, two is not a very big sample size to be writing off not just the particular bullet you used but 7mm altogether.

Originally Posted by Pommy

"front shoulder" is a big area and a deer is obviously a 3 dimensional object. Unless you had gotten to both those animals and autopsied them to see the path the bullets took and what damage they did along the way, two is not a very big sample size to be writing off not just the particular bullet you used but 7mm altogether.

I agree, sounds like you want to move to a big gun when what you probably should be doing is maximising using what you already have.

Ie making sure you are using projectiles that will perform at the distances you are shooting at, making sure you and the rifle can acheive a level of precision to put the bullet where you want it, and also learn a bit more about deer anatomy (Flyblown on here has done some good posts on this, deer anatomy and ideal points of aim)

Most the deer ive shot recently dont go far, only a few leaps at best, many poleaxe on the spot, even well out beyond 600 yards. 162gr Amax hitting high and forward in the front shoulder tends to put huge shock into the central nervous system sacking them hard as well as big tissue damage so they bleed out not long after hitting the deck

Originally Posted by Phill243

But there's always that time you see a trophy of a lifetime walk into the bush or scrub and your not close enough yet and he's never been seen again and your holding a rifle that hurt doesn't quite have enough legs to take the animal. Hence why I now own a big ish gun .

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again...if you rangefind and twiddle and fiddle......distance is pretty irrelevant if the projectile still has enough ooomph to deliver the kill.....
if a certain fella can take deer out to 4-500 yards with a .308 and a 12" barrel........a 200grn out of either of the above going considerably quicker to begin with would make it childs play........but I dont shoot past 350ish anyway so its all acedemic.

With a big magnum caliber you end up with:
- a big bulky scope.
- you always end up wanting to bring rifle weight down.
- it requires a suppressor or muzzle brake to be manageable.
- you don't end up practicing with it a lot due to recoil, muzzle blast, and cost.
- and I think most hunters would agree that you don't really need a magnum cartridge for NZ hunting.

Really your 7saum is 100% fine as it mostly comes down to having an accurate rifle, using quality bullets with enough energy (let's use the usual 1000ft/lbs), and learning to shoot the rifle well (for bullet placement).

Originally Posted by saum7

cheers for all the advise guys.
yes I have a 7mm Saum & 284

This year I did fell a bit under gunned tbh that's just my opinion. I lost a good stag which I hit in the front shoulder obviously never found so cannot say 100% it was but im sure of the shot.
my mate also shot a good stag with my 284 at 450M hit it and dropped a few minutes later it was up and walking 2 shots later it was down 2nd wasn't the best placement as it was moving.
at a guess the stag we recovered would have been 130-140kg gutted with head off.

I have shot 2 300 rums now and taken a stag one and it hit like a freight train.
I have also seen at 338 edge at work with the same result.

instead of building something im going to hold out and wait for something 2nd hand to pop up hopefully save a bit of coin if it doesn't work out I will on sell it.

ok...so lets look at this from a tight wads point of view......Scottish heritage coming out in me.....

what projectile were you using and what weight????
can you achieve a SIMILAR outcome eg give you more hurt at terminal end buy changing things up,using what you already have...can you for instance go heavier projectile????

pretty sure 90% of us have lost an animal at some point in time.....reguardless of the range shot was taken.....its been an eye opener hunting with a dog ,finding something dead is just sooooo much easier...finding something when the shot wasnt spot on is much easier too...

Ive been around long enough now to have heard from trusted folks without an axe to grind...that sometimes shit happens and animals just carry on as if nothing happened....know of a stag that was still holding hinds 2 days after being shot too far back!!!!! needless to say he was dispatched and person responsible wasnt invited back onto that farm again.....
tales of three legged stags still holding hinds too..... sometimes they just dont get hit right,sometimes projectiles just dont do what they should...52grn hollow point speer arent supposed to tumble without opening neither are the 50grn version,yet Ive got 3-4 recovered projectiles that failed to open and tumbled.....note recovered projectiles as animal still died....
MAYBE a change of projectile type or weight will give you more smack down......I believe its definately worth exploring the option before forking out some serious coin on something bigger that cant physically deliver more energy onto target itself,most of the gain will go into hillside behind it.