Thread: calibre advice

Originally Posted by gimp

Who uses yards in the year 2015 anyway

Those who wish to make it sound even further

Originally Posted by gimp

Who uses yards in the year 2015 anyway

Probably more people than use metric in shooting or not

As a new comer to this forum I think some posts here are a sad indictment of forum culture. Maybe be foolishly I thought this might be somewhere to share with like minded people but clearly it’s more fun just to throw rocks. I don't blame the guy for not responding. The fact is someone who is serious about shooting such distances would have already sniffed out the very limited number of people who could actually help him set something up. To my knowledge the Gun Slinger competition is the only real measure of serious long range shooters ability. I wonder how many here compete in that?

I'll go out on a limb here because I really don’t care. Is the reference to "long range" in this forum actually only limited to 600 yards oh shit I meant meters how backward of me.
Any wonder there is very limited sharing of good info in this forum. To anyone reading this who actually wants to learn something beneficial and to improve your ability you are absolutely in the wrong place.

Have fun with that guys I’m out.

This place is like a pub you've just gotta sift through the dribblers, haters blowhards pisstakers blah blah blah to get the few nuggets of advice that are there or to be pointed in the right/different direction. At the same time pretty entertaining n showing a cross section of kiwi society. Me I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. Enjoy


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Bye bye

Originally Posted by Bugger That

As a new comer to this forum I think some posts here are a sad indictment of forum culture. Maybe be foolishly I thought this might be somewhere to share with like minded people but clearly it’s more fun just to throw rocks. I don't blame the guy for not responding. The fact is someone who is serious about shooting such distances would have already sniffed out the very limited number of people who could actually help him set something up. To my knowledge the Gun Slinger competition is the only real measure of serious long range shooters ability. I wonder how many here compete in that?

I'll go out on a limb here because I really don’t care. Is the reference to "long range" in this forum actually only limited to 600 yards oh shit I meant meters how backward of me.
Any wonder there is very limited sharing of good info in this forum. To anyone reading this who actually wants to learn something beneficial and to improve your ability you are absolutely in the wrong place.

Have fun with that guys I’m out.

Yep there's a bit of piss taking but sift through it and there's some sound advice there.
Some of us have been shooting ELR for a while, some of us do shoot out to 2000 yards+.
There is heaps of good people on here with extensive knowledge of LR shooting, it's taken lots of $$$$$$$ and heaps of time to gain that knowledge but if you ask the right Questions you'll get good sound advise.

See ya, oh and we forgive you for being backward.

Originally Posted by Bugger That

As a new comer to this forum I think some posts here are a sad indictment of forum culture. Maybe be foolishly I thought this might be somewhere to share with like minded people but clearly it’s more fun just to throw rocks. I don't blame the guy for not responding. The fact is someone who is serious about shooting such distances would have already sniffed out the very limited number of people who could actually help him set something up. To my knowledge the Gun Slinger competition is the only real measure of serious long range shooters ability. I wonder how many here compete in that?

I'll go out on a limb here because I really don’t care. Is the reference to "long range" in this forum actually only limited to 600 yards oh shit I meant meters how backward of me.
Any wonder there is very limited sharing of good info in this forum. To anyone reading this who actually wants to learn something beneficial and to improve your ability you are absolutely in the wrong place.

Have fun with that guys I’m out.

@Bugger That, she's a high horse you have there, mate. Sweetas though, each to their own.
As BRADS said ask the right questions and you will get knowledgeable answers - yes those answers are always going to mixed in with a bit of banter but as I see it its a internet forum and anyone should be doing their own research and coming up with there own conclusions anyway. There is a whole heap of information out there on ELR shooting.

Just one more thing, a bit of a point of interest of mine. The Gunslinger events, as cool as they are, are not the only long range or even extreme long range steel events in NZ. There are a whole bunch of extremely accomplished long range shooters in NZ who have never attended a Gunslinger event and that fact doesn't diminish their accomplishments - competition wise, professionally or individually.

Have a good day!

Anyways back on track with the thread...

@sika77
It sounds like your question might have been better worded to say “I don’t know why I loose consistency in my shooting past 1000 yards with my 7mm08/.308/.270. I think it is the rifle/calibre I am using. I would like a new gun that I can comfortably hunt deer with out to 800 yards or so but will still be ok for targets out to 1600 yards. Can anyone offer some advice?”

None of the calibres you mentioned are typically used for long range shooting past about 1000 yards and there are good reasons for this – none of them really push a projectile with a high enough BC with enough velocity to keep them supersonic much past 1000 yards. Once your projectile goes trans-sonic and into subsonic it is expected it will suffer some in-stability which I turn will affect it accuracy. There are exception of course with the 7mm08/.308/.270 but typically they involve long barrels 28" plus, and heavy "uncommon" projectiles for that caliber.
Another reason you might be experiencing inconsistency at the longer distances is simply the sum of all the errors is starting to catch up with you. Rifle accuracy, bullet stability, shooter's ability, wind call accuracy, reloading accuracy, velocity variations, neck tensions, temperature/pressure variations, ammunition temperature variations, etc. All of these come into play at the longer distances more and more with increasing distance and with lower and lower BC.

Hunting wise the non magnum "short/medium" action calibers are good on animals out to about 600yards or a little further in the right hands as you have mentioned. Past about 700-800yards i think hunting wise you are much better off with a magnum caliber in 7mm or bigger. Saying a 7mm08 is good on deer to 800 yards is similar to saying a .223 is fine on deer to 200m - it is, in the right hands under the right conditions. For consistent shooting past about 1000 yards then i think you need to look seriously at the 338s or larger if they fit in your budget.

In steel target competition with my .260 i only feel disadvantaged past about 800-900 yards - it is at this point i think the magnums and particularly the .338s really start coming into their own for accuracy and consistency. Their higher BC projectiles certainly give you the edge in wind and to a degree in elevation as they hold their velocity better.

Originally Posted by Gillie

@Bugger That, she's a high horse you have there, mate. Sweetas though, each to their own.
As BRADS said ask the right questions and you will get knowledgeable answers - yes those answers are always going to mixed in with a bit of banter but as I see it its a internet forum and anyone should be doing their own research and coming up with there own conclusions anyway. There is a whole heap of information out there on ELR shooting.

Just one more thing, a bit of a point of interest of mine. The Gunslinger events, as cool as they are, are not the only long range or even extreme long range steel events in NZ. There are a whole bunch of extremely accomplished long range shooters in NZ who have never attended a Gunslinger event and that fact doesn't diminish their accomplishments - competition wise, professionally or individually.

Have a good day!

Thanks Gillie, Yer LOL it does read like that I guess. That gimp idiot set me off. I have no issue with piss taking I'm not shy myself. The only reason I referenced the slinger thing is it’s the only one I knew of. I am responding to clear up a misunderstanding, in no way did a mean to imply that anyone outside of that is a lesser marksman but in reading my own words that's exactly how it sounds. You are quite right the statement dose exclude those who are achieving similar things out side that competition who deserve recognition.

I guess I was hoping for some good solid discussion and as yet I have not seen it anywhere. Instead we see the blind leading the blind (I know another high horse statement, I should stop digging right) but come on it is what it is. It would be nice to see some good advice from time to time.

It’s all about winning friends and influencing people and I'm a master at it as you can see.

Originally Posted by Gillie

Anyways back on track with the thread...

@sika77
It sounds like your question might have been better worded to say “I don’t know why I loose consistency in my shooting past 1000 yards with my 7mm08/.308/.270. I think it is the rifle/calibre I am using. I would like a new gun that I can comfortably hunt deer with out to 800 yards or so but will still be ok for targets out to 1600 yards. Can anyone offer some advice?”

None of the calibres you mentioned are typically used for long range shooting past about 1000 yards and there are good reasons for this – none of them really push a projectile with a high enough BC with enough velocity to keep them supersonic much past 1000 yards. Once your projectile goes trans-sonic and into subsonic it is expected it will suffer some in-stability which I turn will affect it accuracy. There are exception of course with the 7mm08/.308/.270 but typically they involve long barrels 28" plus, and heavy "uncommon" projectiles for that caliber.
Another reason you might be experiencing inconsistency at the longer distances is simply the sum of all the errors is starting to catch up with you. Rifle accuracy, bullet stability, shooter's ability, wind call accuracy, reloading accuracy, velocity variations, neck tensions, temperature/pressure variations, ammunition temperature variations, etc. All of these come into play at the longer distances more and more with increasing distance and with lower and lower BC.

Hunting wise the non magnum "short/medium" action calibers are good on animals out to about 600yards or a little further in the right hands as you have mentioned. Past about 700-800yards i think hunting wise you are much better off with a magnum caliber in 7mm or bigger. Saying a 7mm08 is good on deer to 800 yards is similar to saying a .223 is fine on deer to 200m - it is, in the right hands under the right conditions. For consistent shooting past about 1000 yards then i think you need to look seriously at the 338s or larger if they fit in your budget.

In steel target competition with my .260 i only feel disadvantaged past about 800-900 yards - it is at this point i think the magnums and particularly the .338s really start coming into their own for accuracy and consistency. Their higher BC projectiles certainly give you the edge in wind and to a degree in elevation as they hold their velocity better.

Now that's how you answer the question!

Guys need to remember that some guys are way more knowledgeable that their username or post count suggests & as they use different usernames they may have been here or other pubs before.

I prefer to use the same username everywhere & every now & again the same old trolls will poke shit my way, it is just how it is.....

+1 what Gillie Said.
I've shot a 260 out two 1400 with very good success in perfect conditions, but that seems to be where it stops.
In my experience the 338's including the bigger CT variants seem to start to fail at around a mile.
The 375 variants are where it's at if you want to constantly shoot past 1600.
When shot side buy side the difference between the 375 and 338 is like night and day.
The 375 will cost more $ two run, but similar in build costs.
When you start getting out two 2000 yards + if the conditions aren't perfect save your money and go home.
These bigger 338s and 375s aren't carry guns, sure you can do a couple of hours in open country but lugging 18+ pounds around becomes boring real fast.
If your just interested in just longer range hunting something like a rem mag would be hard to beat when used at sensible ranges.
If a big 338 or 375 is what you want send @ Kiwi Greg a pm he specialises in this big guns.
Hope this helps you somewhat

Originally Posted by Bugger That

Thanks Gillie, Yer LOL it does read like that I guess. That gimp idiot set me off. I have no issue with piss taking I'm not shy myself. The only reason I referenced the slinger thing is it’s the only one I knew of. I am responding to clear up a misunderstanding, in no way did a mean to imply that anyone outside of that is a lesser marksman but in reading my own words that's exactly how it sounds. You are quite right the statement dose exclude those who are achieving similar things out side that competition who deserve recognition.

I guess I was hoping for some good solid discussion and as yet I have not seen it anywhere. Instead we see the blind leading the blind (I know another high horse statement, I should stop digging right) but come on it is what it is. It would be nice to see some good advice from time to time.

It’s all about winning friends and influencing people and I'm a master at it as you can see.

lol

Originally Posted by BRADS

I've shot a 260 out two 1400 with very good success in perfect conditions, but that seems to be where it stops.

When i was shooting my .260 a little past 1200m it should have been well and truly subsonic by then but the bloody thing was still grouping awesome... I was expecting the accuracy to go to sh#t - maybe my 130gr projectiles were holding up better than the balistic program says?