Thread: Calibre, Rifle & Scope Sugestions For Longer Range Hunting

Originally Posted by 25/08 IMP

If it's your first center fire rifle then let's face it you will buy another in 12 months.
You will want to get out and shoot all sorts of shit from targets,rabbits deer goats and gongs.
So get something that you can afford to run and something that isn't going to boot the shit out of you.
I would buy a Tikka in 6.5 Creedmoor as plenty of ammo buy all the same brand to give you good brass to reload later.
Put a vx5 or a Z5 on it and a DPT and go hunting being a happy man.
Spend the big dollars and rifles once you have tried a few others. Z

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no no no no dont go down this route - you asked for good advice well thats not it - the 6.5 creedmore was developed as a target round - it is not a long range deer cartridge - it was never intended to be or designed to be - many young hunters will learn that the hard way - it has not been around in NZ hunting circles for long - basically what is wrong is that is just not have the knock down power at range simply as that - there will be forum users who will jump on here and quote chapter and verse about its credentials on paper but its basically a squaw gun - get a magnum for long range - that is what they were designed for - tikka yes very nice but others out there just as good -

Originally Posted by Barry the hunter

no no no no dont go down this route - you asked for good advice well thats not it - the 6.5 creedmore was developed as a target round - it is not a long range deer cartridge - it was never intended to be or designed to be - many young hunters will learn that the hard way - it has not been around in NZ hunting circles for long - basically what is wrong is that is just not have the knock down power at range simply as that - there will be forum users who will jump on here and quote chapter and verse about its credentials on paper but its basically a squaw gun - get a magnum for long range - that is what they were designed for - tikka yes very nice but others out there just as good -

Is this not his first rifle.
I've seen many a new shooter put off from recoil of magnums.
The Creedmoor will handle big reds out to 500 with the right bullet.
Being a new shooter he should keep the rangers down to 300-400.
I've shot plenty of animals out to 630 with my 20" Creedmoor or 18" .260.


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Originally Posted by 25/08 IMP

Is this not his first rifle.
I've seen many a new shooter put off from recoil of magnums.
The Creedmoor will handle big reds out to 500 with the right bullet.
Being a new shooter he should keep the rangers down to 300-400.
I've shot plenty of animals out to 630 with my 20" Creedmoor or 18" .260.


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yes but its like going out the back and trying to fell the big 5 foot thru macrocarpara for firewood with ya $150 Warehouse electric chainsaw - on paper it will eventually do it but what ya need is a big 90cc Sthil with a 5 foot bar - nah - stand by my guns the 6.5 creedmore is not a long range deer rifle - I shot a lot of deer with .222 rem but I would not recommend it - get a magnum with suppressor very manageable and one is not undergunned - should not have to go thru all the rigmarole of bullet selection - what's available from local gunshop should work -

Originally Posted by Barry the hunter

yes but its like going out the back and trying to fell the big 5 foot thru macrocarpara for firewood with ya $150 Warehouse electric chainsaw - on paper it will eventually do it but what ya need is a big 90cc Sthil with a 5 foot bar - nah - stand by my guns the 6.5 creedmore is not a long range deer rifle - I shot a lot of deer with .222 rem but I would not recommend it - get a magnum with suppressor very manageable and one is not undergunned - should not have to go thru all the rigmarole of bullet selection - what's available from local gunshop should work -

This is a silly argument. If the cartridge can deliver an appropriate projectile with enough energy at your intended range to penetrate and expand reliably giving a clean ethical kill then it's a suitable cartridge for that purpose regardless of what it was designed for.

Beside that, all the things that make it a good lr target cartridge(high bc, low wind drift, low recoil) are all advantages for hunting as well.

By the above logic wed all be shooting 416 cheytachs at anything over 300y

Originally Posted by Barry the hunter

no no no no dont go down this route - you asked for good advice well thats not it - the 6.5 creedmore was developed as a target round - it is not a long range deer cartridge - it was never intended to be or designed to be - many young hunters will learn that the hard way - it has not been around in NZ hunting circles for long - basically what is wrong is that is just not have the knock down power at range simply as that - there will be forum users who will jump on here and quote chapter and verse about its credentials on paper but its basically a squaw gun - get a magnum for long range - that is what they were designed for - tikka yes very nice but others out there just as good -

It shoots the same projectile within 100fps as a prc in most cases mate its light recoiling it's easy to put it where its ment to go

Buy a .223 with a dialing scope fitted - much cheaper to feed to get the practice in dialing and reading wind etc. Then get something longer legged that fits the same operating profile as the .223 and is either a 'premium' rifle package or a semi-custom with an accuracy guarantee or a known pedigree in shooting over the ranges you want...

The actual caliber provided it retains sufficient energy at those ranges isn't that important - it just needs to be repeatably accurate and reliable.

Sorting the rifle and caliber out is actually the easy part - the hard part is developing and honing the skills you need as the shooter to take those shots at longer distances at live game and to do it humanely i.e. not shooting the things in the knees jaw or guts, not being able to take a follow up shot and losing them in the time it takes to close the distance to the animal. It really does need a superlative level of shooting skill to take game reliably past the 350-400m mark, especially in open country across valleys where the wind calling becomes local knowledge on how the air moves around the hills and valleys. It's not impossible, but it does take a LOT of practice - this is where the cheap-to-feed .223 comes in.

where is the popcorn icon when you need it??

My 2 cents, The 308 family (243, 260, 7M08 and 308 and the CM's ) with correct bullet selection will work out to 500 mtr.
But you do need the higher BC bullets (definitely in the 6 and 6.5mm sizes) and softer frangible bullets that work at the lower velocities of longer range. ie don't expect a Copper solid to take out the heart and lungs at 500 mtr. Most of them will needle through at that distance. (different story at 100 mtr)
But ammo is readily available (Excluding the CM family) at most gun shops.

As noted above a heavier varmint or range rifle is much easier to shoot accurately than an ultra light which will demand much more focus on your technique and hold repeatability for field accuracy that you need for >500 mtr shooting.

Given it sounds like you are not reloading the next common step is the 30-06/270 family but that really only buying you another 100 mtr so then to get yourself a margin for error and looking at commonly available cartridges I would suggest the 7mm rem Mag or 300 Win Mag.

Just look at the range of Ammo say Gun City stocks, 46x308, 15x 243, 13x 7M08, 13x & Rem Mag, 13x 300 Win Mag. (1x 6.5CM)
Z

I see things from both sides of the above debate because i have seen both sides of it play out first hand. I have watched mates try shoot deer at distance with calibres smaller than ideal for the job and lose the deer with a bad shot or need multiple follow up shots to get the job done, but ive also watched a young bloke clean miss deer one after the other with a 7mm rem mag that he just couldnt shoot to save himself because he was tensing up bracing himself for the recoil and jerking the trigger, and had to take the rifle from him and get the job done myself. I have a 300wsm i use for my long range hunting, but i still agree that a smaller calibre would be better to start off with if your not an experienced shooter. I have shot deer out to just over 500m with my 6.5 Creedmoor using 143gr ELDX and its done the job beautifully, However if i had the 300wsm there with me at that time i certainly would have favoured it over the creedmoor, purely because theres more room for error if i make a bad call on wind or just simply make a bad shot.

Im very much a believer of a big fast bullet beats a small fast bullet every time, but if you cant shoot said big bullet accurately, its a waste of time.

SDP has had a 300 wsm for sale before asking 'what cal for 500'. I would have thought that was the right gun myself, perhaps just needs a suppressor ?????
In all reality no one has to shoot deer at 500m anyway. 99.9% of shots can be taken at a closer range with a bit of a gap closing sneak

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

SDP has had a 300 wsm for sale before asking 'what cal for 500'. I would have thought that was the right gun myself, perhaps just needs a suppressor ?????
In all reality no one has to shoot deer at 500m anyway. 99.9% of shots can be taken at a closer range with a bit of a gap closing sneak

Agree 100% I own 2 magnums and crave a smaller case as I tend to take shots from 50-300 yrds

I was sitting on the hill the other night watching a clearing where I had seen acouple the previous night with no rifle.
I had taken the 450m rifle and low and behold there trots out some desirable eaters at 700 m on another clearing.
Moral of the story, I should have taken the big rifle!

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This thread is epic

My advise would be to team up with a few hunting locals and there is a lot of them around chch and get your hands on a few different firearm combos

If i was to have one gun it would be tikka t3 with carbon stock in 7mm remmag / 7prc 20" barrel dpt can telly rings and a vx5. I have had two hahaha but you know always something else to try

Best advice find someone with some practical experience of shooting long range for years. Not targets but dead deer. Someone who reloads and knows about ballistic coefficients and down range ft/lbs of energy . IMHO its the ft/lbs of energy that ultimately kill at range .
Last piece of advice - " There is no replacement for displacement!" i.e Go large or go home. Forget these pussy prc's and creedmores and all this fandangle shit. Get a big magnum. I started with a 300 wsm then went to a 7mmrum .
Burn the powder!! Get some ear plugs and learn to shoot with a percussion producing muzzle brake.

Depends if you are an experienced shooter or not as to what caliber. As far as light weight goes, a large caliber that has good ballistics for extended ranges is going to kick, the lighter the rifle the harder it is to shoot it consistently. 7mm would be range to look at, milder recoil than the fat 30 cals that need a heap of powder to be ballistically efficient (without a heap of wind deflection and scope that has enough moa adjustment for a slow fat pill will be heavy) 7rem mag wants a longer barrel, as do most magnums. A 270 would be a good bet, killing energy out to 700m, plenty of ammunition around, nearly 100 years old and nothing in nz will walk away from it if you do you part, milder recoil then a magnum too