Cartridge and Rifle Camberings Availability.

Greetings All,
There have been a couple of threads lately on the possible demise of cartridges due to manufacturer disinterest or government edict. I thought I would do an not very scientific survey of chamberings available in NZ (or would be if there was still supply available). Clearly there are stacks of rifles chambered for the current two wonder 6.5mm cartridges while the .260 Rem is scarce. A lot of rifles these days have short or semi short actions which will not chamber any of the 06 cartridges but the old standards 30-06 and its spawn, the .270 and .25-06 are still available. Interestingly the .30-06 rifles are often have wood stocks which betrays the age group of its devotees.
For ammo who would know under current circumstances but generally if there is adequate demand and people are prepared to pay the price for the less common stuff then it will be produced. Cartridges which have been popular for a significant period of time should remain in production for a very long time after the production of rifles ceases eg the .303. The cartridges that would concern me are recent introductions for which popularity is low. If the cases can not easily be formed from anything else. 7mm-08 cases can easily be made from .308 cases. They are a little short but work fine. There are rifles currently available for the .350 Legend which is an orphan case. Yes I know that it is similar in head size to the .223 but it is just enough bigger to cause a problem.
Recent supposed rumours about the demise of .300 Mag cartridges by government edict had me baffled for a bit until I realised where it may have come from. All public rifle ranges will need to be certified in the future. To do this a safety template has to be calculated. The inputs for this include the type and power of the ammo in use. Some current rifle ranges have a maximum muzzle energy measured in Joules for the cartridges that can be used. This is not determined by government but by the range owner based on what template he can fit on the land available. A srambled version of this may be the scource.
Regards Grandpamac.

for the hundreth time...there is NO SHORTAGE if folks stop blasting away at paper or hoarding ammunition...... if a fella fired 3 to check zero,3 to confirm zero that leaves 14 in a box...even if he fires that same 6 rounds on range and 1 round to kill a deer he gets just about 3 deer per box of ammunition which is piss poor going really... makes firing 2 to check zero a bit more attractive...and punching paper with the rimfire or centrefire and cast loads just that much more so.
the days of mag dumping for the hell of it may be gone for the time being (pretty hard without a semi anyway) but with a LITTLE prudence there is more than enough to go around.....heck you fellas took the piss out of toilet paper hoarders....... for good reason.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by grandpamac

A srambled version of this may be the scource.

---

The first rumours of it were heard back in 2019 after the chch shooting. The concern was that the police were going to try and ban everything they thought they could get away with banning, including everything over a certain amount of power. That bit obviously didn't happen but in the same way we still get recently resurfaced rock dwellers wondering where all the ammo has gone, it takes a long time for rumours to filter their way down to some people. I don't think it's a new rumour - just a very old one that popped back up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

for the hundreth time...there is NO SHORTAGE if folks stop blasting away at paper or hoarding ammunition...... if a fella fired 3 to check zero,3 to confirm zero that leaves 14 in a box...even if he fires that same 6 rounds on range and 1 round to kill a deer he gets just about 3 deer per box of ammunition which is piss poor going really... makes firing 2 to check zero a bit more attractive...and punching paper with the rimfire or centrefire and cast loads just that much more so.
the days of mag dumping for the hell of it may be gone for the time being (pretty hard without a semi anyway) but with a LITTLE prudence there is more than enough to go around.....heck you fellas took the piss out of toilet paper hoarders....... for good reason.

---

Greetings @Micky Duck,
Thanks for your reply. I was trying to deal with a couple of specific unfounded rumours in the thread so rather glossed over the panic buying that drives temporary shortages. Due partly to nature and nurture I am particlarly prudent with ammo expentiture having never carried out the endless strings of test loads that some feel are neccesary. If a rifle needs that sort of work to get it to shoot well I would rather it belonged to someone else.
Regards Grandpamac.
PS. I mentioned the .264 Win Mag recently in a post so looked it up. New factory loaded cartridges are available from Remington (the cartridge section) at $100.00US for a packet of 20. .264 cases can be made from 7mm Rem Mag cases with one stroke of the press. We shold all be handloaders.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

for the hundreth time...there is NO SHORTAGE if folks stop blasting away at paper or hoarding ammunition...... if a fella fired 3 to check zero,3 to confirm zero that leaves 14 in a box...even if he fires that same 6 rounds on range and 1 round to kill a deer he gets just about 3 deer per box of ammunition which is piss poor going really... makes firing 2 to check zero a bit more attractive...and punching paper with the rimfire or centrefire and cast loads just that much more so.
the days of mag dumping for the hell of it may be gone for the time being (pretty hard without a semi anyway) but with a LITTLE prudence there is more than enough to go around.....heck you fellas took the piss out of toilet paper hoarders....... for good reason.

---

I find it interesting that people on this forum should be taking paper punchers to task for wasting ammunition as if range shooting is not a legitimate hobby As for mag dumping anybody who has fired a mad minute or speed comp or even cowboy shooting is gaining experience and having fun shooting at there own expense. Each to his own but I try to get to the range two or three times a week so try to have an adequate supply of ammo for my needs. There is so much 223 and 7.62x39 ammo laying around after the big confiscation that much of it will be around for years to come, as the amount of 303 and 3006 still turning up proves. If not for hoarders it would not be around today.

well actually if you re read what I wrote....... actually just the bit after the brackets will do..... you cant have it both ways...complain about shortages and in same breath use like ther eis no tomorrow...with a little prudence there is plenty to go around...heck I was giving dannyb shit about using up components in his load developement...Im a tight wad and hate wasteage..... my problem child rifle is parked up for now till I can bring myslef to use up more components on paper to sort it... thats just me..I wont run out in a hurry as have been careful and have small supply on hand.... small being operative word.

So, in conclusion ... there's no real shortage until we hear gunfire slowing down.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cordite

So, in conclusion ... there's no real shortage until we hear gunfire slowing down.

---

Attachment 203284

Just a quick look in the gunsafe and 10-12 bricks of 22 1800 rounds of 7.62x39 about 480 rounds 50 BMG all to be fired through bolt action rifles and not one animal will be harmed in the process so as they say your mileage may vary but every body has there own opinion about shortages,and mine is that those that saw the shortages of 22 ammo and blackpowder and primers in the late 1990's early 2000's stocked up and are now helping those that did not.

helping out others is good.... there is lots of good powder in the 50bmg cases too if you really get short LOL....

At least you lot have Belmont locally and ADI over the water... in the UK we have Eley (.22LR and pistol rounds only) and Radway Green (military ammo forbidden for civilian purchase but some still 'appears' for sale).

So looking at the component parts of a round:

Bullet-

There will always be an ingenious/entrepreneurial person who can work out how to make bullets. For 'cup and core' style bullets, you can make .224 bullets by making jackets from old 22LR cases and get the lead from batteries, old wheel/fishing weights, recovered range lead etc. Bigger cals often rely on Berger J4 jackets being imported, but I'm sure 'where there is a will, there is a way' in terms of making them domestically. Big investments here are swaging/forming dies and a press with enough leverage to use them. Keep in mind that RCBS means Rockchuck Bullet Swadge.

Seems you already have Targex which work well on game and range, so a big plus here.

Something even 'easier' (i.e less labour intensive) to make are lathe/CNC turned copper bullets. What costs so much is the raw material and how you need to alloy/treat it to get good expansion, then the machinery required to turn them, and finally QC required to ensure the bullet is of sufficient quality/consistency. Due to these factors, copper is always going to be expensive, but I'm not paying the Dick Turpin rates that the local UK copper bullet makers are charging at the moment due to 'lead-free' fear mongering... :pissed off:

Might not be able to make Hornady ELDX/A Tip in your shed, but I'd rather buy/make 10k of a projectile with inferior BC vs buy a few hundred of a 'super duper' bullet which may never be seen again or require organ/firstborn child sales for a restock.

Case-

What surprises me about the supposed 'reloading shortage' is that brass prices have either remained stable or only crept up a little bit. Lapua has taken a noticeable hike here in the UK, but I suspect that's down to stupid political decisions (Brexit). Anyway, you can always find 'once fired' brass for sale, although taking the seller at their word is often a risky proposition.

Brass lasts a long time, and despite the recent annealing craze (instead of buying top tier machines, you could buy enough good brass to outlast several barrels of your chosen chambering and probably your own lifetime!) it does last a long time. Most major ammo manufacturers still flame anneal...

Anyway, if you read a proper reloading book ( Earl Naramore's Principles and Practice of Loading Ammunition), you'll realise the evolution of ammunition being available as brass cartridges.

Basically, your case acts as a chamber plug, with the bolt merely holding it in place. Considering the expansion and subsequent spring back these cases endure under firing, and subsequent reloading, we are very lucky that they last for multiple loadings. Furthermore, the fact that you can often pick up brass 'for free' from a local range or be given them by generous individuals :thumbsup: means the most costly and labour intensive item required is actually the easiest to acquire!

However, caveat imperator if you like shooting obsolete chamberings. Whilst a lot of reforming might be possible to yield the correct dimensions (taking time and expense through annealing and forming dies) , don't get stuck with Berdan primed cases... unless you have a direct line to RWS, Murom or a third world world government arsenal that still makes them! Good segue onto...

Primer-

Out of all the components, this is certainly the most anxiety inducing in terms of supply and has been know to cause grown men to act like teenage girls at a handbag sale...

Attachment 203290

Primers are relatively complex to manufacture (but not as bad as powder) since you need to setup your factory in line with the principle that your entire facility could explode if things are not managed properly. Supposedly, Winchester housed their primer manufacturing section in a flimsy indoor chicken coupe to reduce potential shrapnel etc.

Anyway, a Boxer primer is made up of three parts, primer cup (what we see when looking at the back of a loaded round), primer compound and anvil. There are three general dimensions for primers, small rifle/pistol, large pistol and large rifle (although BMG and shotgun primers also exist). Difference between types are narrowed down to primer cup thickness and the amount of priming compound. Magnum primers are usually designed to offer a more robust primer cup which deals with higher pressures and more priming compound to give better ignition to a longer powder column or harder to ignite powder (usually ball powder). There are also 'AR' variants designed to accommodate floating firing pins.

There isn't much to say with regards to this. Trying to reload primers by salvaging spent ones, removing the anvil, pounding out the dent, annealing the cup and repriming with cap gun powder, then re-seating the anvil is both dangerous and futile. There are only a few primer manufacturers worldwide that offer civillian/commercial sales, here are the ones I know of:

Federal
Remington
CCI (Cascade Cartridge Inc.) Note that all three of these companies are owned by the US conglomerate Vista Outdoors, monopoly much? :ORLY:
Winchester
Murom/Wolf/Tula- now banned due to Putin being naughty
MagTech- Brazillian ammunition plant who I would happily be a sales agent for, so long as there was plenty of 'R&R' in Rio and São Paulo :P
RWS- German
Sellier & Bellot- Czech
Fiocchi- Italian
PPU- Serbia (these might be rebrands from another source)
Unis Ginex- Bosnia and Herzegovina

What may ease things for you lot is the fact that several Asian government arsenals make primers (think India, China, Malaysia, South Korea etc.) so maybe some creative thinking, diplomacy and a little 'green persuasion' could see you flush with primers from questionable sources and dubious quality. But if going BOOM is all that is required, better than nothing!

For those wanting true 'lead free' ammo, keep in mind that lead styphanate is the primary compound in the priming mixture. Federal, Murom and Fiocchi have made lead free primers but none are commercially available at the moment. If you want lead free, learn to bowhunt or if you are not good enough to do that, please give up shooting :thumbsup:

What surprises me is the fact that ADI are not making primers, as they almost certainly were during WWII. What we are seeing in terms of primer prices at the moment might justify setting up a factory, but if prices drop then the investment would be wasted. Another fact is that wages are way too high in most places to make this a viable prospect. Some form of automation might improve things, but you can't base a multi million dollar facility on the fact that people are paying over the odds at the moment.

Powder-

The last and probably most important bit. Whilst you lot are lucky enough to be 'over the water' from possibly the world's best small arms powder producer, ADI, it seems things are not so rosy in terms of supply.

We in the UK are worst hit, as no more lovely Varget due to REACH banning certain powders.

As far as I can tell, only ball powder is made in the USA. Canada has a facility, and Scotland used to have an ICI one which is long gone :O_O:

Ramshot ball powders are made in Belgium, Vihtavuori in Finalnd and Reload Swiss is obvious by name. Think Norma also make powder.

Several companies just re-label powders, e.g Reloader 17 is actually RS60.

The war in Ukraine has diverted a lot of European supply, so things not looking too good. As with primers, this is stuff you can't make at home!

To sum up, things are not as bad as they are at first glance. If you were to stock up, keep in mind that powder and primers last years/decades if stored correctly. Seen a lot of pictures coming from the US where yard/car boot sales have turned up hoards from old reloaders. Something to keep in mind!

Greetings and thanks everyone,
Having seen a number of supply shortages come and go I try to keep a minimum of two years supply of components for at least some of my rifles. To simplify this my .308, .223 and old soldier rifles can both be loaded with either AR2206H or Benchmark 8208 and most of the others with either AR2209 or AR2213SC. Small and large rifle standard primers cover all but one rifle so I like to keep one brick of one of these in reserve. This is mostly the small rifle version as the .223 rifles get shot most. Projectiles mostly along the same lines. I will get another brick of Large rifle primers when they are easily available plus likely some more .224 projectiles and some more of the Greek .303 projectile to eke out my 174 grain RN's but other than that my current modest stocks will do for some time.
Regards Grandpamac.

I’m not sure if the ‘there is no shortage’ sentiment is to say that things are as they have always been... but one would have to ask.. why are most of the retailers out of stock of so much of their components and product? Why are components selling at a 200% markup on the auction sites? One would have to surmise that things are indeed not normal, and that many shelves are bereft of their normal quantities of stock.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by -BW-

I’m not sure if the ‘there is no shortage’ sentiment is to say that things are as they have always been... but one would have to ask.. why are most of the retailers out of stock of so much of their components and product? Why are components selling at a 200% markup on the auction sites? One would have to surmise that things are indeed not normal, and that many shelves are bereft of their normal quantities of stock.

---

Greetings @-BW-,
There is a very simple answer. PANIC BUYING IN THE US. It has been well documented and is driven by the US election cycle. The current one started in the US in early 2000 when it started to look possible that Tump may lose the election later that year. Manufacturers keep production steady to keep costs down and profits up and concentrate on the high profit lines as they know that every boom ends in a bust. As the panic slows down shelves are restocked but at the end of the supply chain we are the last to see this happen. Local stockpiling by firearms users to ensure their supply and hoarding by some make things worse. It really is that simple. Things should ease through this year and into next depending on the US Mid Term results but expect the cycle to return in early 2024.
Regards Grandpamac.

You know my feelings on this subject but as a new reloader I struggled to gauge what was a reasonable amount to have in stock for my needs as opposed to just hoarding. I’m definitely shooting more than I have been in the past few years and have three calibers, soon to be a fourth, I’ll be reloading for. So what’s my projected usage??? Who the hell knows and worst case scenario is that we are squeezed out completely by lack of overseas supply and ongoing restrictions in country.
I know this much, I won’t be selling the 270 or the 223 and will treat everything else as a hobby, a matter of interest in furthering my knowledge and will just pick up bits and pieces as time goes on.
What else can we do? Everyone’s situation is different and we are a tinpot pacific island at the ass end of nowhere, right at the very end of the food chain for large suppliers, so it’s just crystal ball gazing and trying to cover our asses for the now and future eventualities.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by grandpamac

Greetings @-BW-,
There is a very simple answer. PANIC BUYING IN THE US. It has been well documented and is driven by the US election cycle. The current one started in the US in early 2000 when it started to look possible that Tump may lose the election later that year. Manufacturers keep production steady to keep costs down and profits up and concentrate on the high profit lines as they know that every boom ends in a bust. As the panic slows down shelves are restocked but at the end of the supply chain we are the last to see this happen. Local stockpiling by firearms users to ensure their supply and hoarding by some make things worse. It really is that simple. Things should ease through this year and into next depending on the US Mid Term results but expect the cycle to return in early 2024.
Regards Grandpamac.

---

The very large armaments contracts issued for tender by the US govt are having an enormous impact on public supply. These contracts must be a financial windfall to manufacturers with the Ukraine 'aid' package now around $80 Billion, this is on top of the huge expansion in armament procurement. Tenders can be viewed online. Even in this link https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/IF/IF12040 listed is 59,000,000 rounds of small arms ammo.
Tenders issued by day: https://www.defense.gov/News/Contracts/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by grandpamac

Greetings @-BW-,
There is a very simple answer. PANIC BUYING IN THE US. It has been well documented and is driven by the US election cycle. The current one started in the US in early 2000 when it started to look possible that Tump may lose the election later that year. Manufacturers keep production steady to keep costs down and profits up and concentrate on the high profit lines as they know that every boom ends in a bust. As the panic slows down shelves are restocked but at the end of the supply chain we are the last to see this happen. Local stockpiling by firearms users to ensure their supply and hoarding by some make things worse. It really is that simple. Things should ease through this year and into next depending on the US Mid Term results but expect the cycle to return in early 2024.
Regards Grandpamac.

---

Indeed.

The 'why' posed in my comment was not to say why is there a shortage but more to state if there exists a sentiment of ''there is no shortage'' then why are the shelves empty. As I believe that yes indeed, there does exist a shortage, the scale of which is mostly subjective but we don't have access to stock we have in the past.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

for the hundreth time...there is NO SHORTAGE if folks stop blasting away at paper or hoarding ammunition...... if a fella fired 3 to check zero,3 to confirm zero that leaves 14 in a box...even if he fires that same 6 rounds on range and 1 round to kill a deer he gets just about 3 deer per box of ammunition which is piss poor going really... makes firing 2 to check zero a bit more attractive...and punching paper with the rimfire or centrefire and cast loads just that much more so.
the days of mag dumping for the hell of it may be gone for the time being (pretty hard without a semi anyway) but with a LITTLE prudence there is more than enough to go around.....heck you fellas took the piss out of toilet paper hoarders....... for good reason.

---

If you don’t have it, can’t buy it, and there’s very small amounts on the way, I’d call that a shortage mate.
How people use a box is meaningless if you can’t get it on the first place

Greetings All,
I think that the learning here should be that for whatever reason there are periods where supplies are short. These are cyclic and vary in severity. The current cycle is likely to have been extended by Covid. I believe that the cycles are due to panic buying in the US driven by the electoral cycle but others may differ. As the cycles are predictable to an extent they can be planned around in ensuring we have enough components to get us through the dips. It really is that simple. The political situation in the US is becoming more unstable and the mid terms will give us some idea of what to expect in 2023, hopefully a period of more calm. We will see.
Regards Grandpamac.

It's pretty covid specific

Well regardless of the cause, I’ve personally seen some positive in it.
It’s made me revisit my expectations of accuracy from my firearms, and freed me up some time and mental space. Given the lack of components, I got smart when doing the load development for my model 7. Picked a load that would be safe, was getting up the scale of velocity, and was within a known ‘sweet spot’ for the combination. Result, zeroed and load development done in 9 rounds. It’s also made me give up on the chase of accuracy. The load just described was right on MOA, which is more than good enough for the cartridge and it’s use.
I only have two centrefires, a 308 and a 358 Win. I bought 1000 primers a while ago and split them with a mate. A kg of powder for each case, and I’m sorted for at least 10 years. Maybe 15.
What I’m saying certainly won’t suit everyone, but the situation got me thinking and subsequently the rationalisation of my gear has me happier.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hunter_Nick

Well regardless of the cause, I’ve personally seen some positive in it.
It’s made me revisit my expectations of accuracy from my firearms, and freed me up some time and mental space. Given the lack of components, I got smart when doing the load development for my model 7. Picked a load that would be safe, was getting up the scale of velocity, and was within a known ‘sweet spot’ for the combination. Result, zeroed and load development done in 9 rounds. It’s also made me give up on the chase of accuracy. The load just described was right on MOA, which is more than good enough for the cartridge and it’s use.
I only have two centrefires, a 308 and a 358 Win. I bought 1000 primers a while ago and split them with a mate. A kg of powder for each case, and I’m sorted for at least 10 years. Maybe 15.
What I’m saying certainly won’t suit everyone, but the situation got me thinking and subsequently the rationalisation of my gear has me happier.

---

Greetings @Hunter_Nick,
Your load developement is pretty much what I do although I do have rather more than two centrefire rifles. I have loaded for the two cartridges that you have and they are both super tolerant of loads, shooting well with almost anything.
Regards Grandpamac.

The current component shortage as has been said isn't so desperate for hunters. A very different story for target shooters, 1000 of anything lasts months, not years. Bergers are unobtanium, I've been forced to shoot Sierras while waiting for Bergers to arrive. I won't even bother moaning about the prices..

That will just warm you up for the new berger pricing

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sakoswarosorted

If you don’t have it, can’t buy it, and there’s very small amounts on the way, I’d call that a shortage mate.
How people use a box is meaningless if you can’t get it on the first place

---

but I HAVE IT...and can still buy it..... there is still some ammunition on the shelves...... I guess it comes back to having lived through harder times.
our grandparents shot pigs with a .12ga and #4 shot as thats all that was around....as a teenager I would get mum to buy (remember those easy times?)a single box of rounds...and when I was down to last 3-4 get another.... using a single barrel break open shotgun for a lot of those formative years taught me to get in close and make the shot count. I recall a driven shoot up in mackenzie basin 50-60 shooters with all sorts of shotguns,including 3 professional rabbiters..at the end of the day a tally up was had....I came out on top and my buddy a close 2nd and we were both using single barrel guns,our round usage was less too...the professional guys werent overly happy about being shown up by a couple of rookies (previous 3 months I had been shooting rabbits full time) it comes down to this,and ONLY THIS.
There is more than enough ammunition and components for zeroing rifle and hunting....... if you want to shoot a couple of hundred rounds into paper,maybe you might need to take up casting projectiles and look at lighter charges of powder to eak out what you can get...or not.
its like anything,supply and demand,reduce the supply and you up the demand...reduce the demand and supply keeps up if not slows down as no market for it.

and how you use that box is VERY meaning full...... if you consider that box of 20 rounds will feed your household for a year...its heaps...if however you consider its 35 seconds of rapid fire into the berm...yeah nah its never going to please you...its all relative.

You’re confusing the way you’d use your ammo, the rifles you own and buy ammo for, and your past use of ammo with reality bro

by all means go out into driveway and start your V8 wagon,leave it running for 20 minute while you have your coffee and morning dump,then roar off down street wit ha squeal of wheels and rev it up at each intersection ,take off full speed down road,brake hard at next corner,rev it up waiting for lights etc...I will take out bucket of warm water to clear my windscreen,start my 4 cylinder 1600cc and drive slowly to work and back.
we both get to destination but my fuel bill /usage will be less.
to each thier own..my reality is different from yours it seems.
my present use of ammunition isnt a hell of a lot different to the past,except Ive got better at rechecking zero before heading away for a hunt...so may use 5-6 rounds to do so,anything else used is on hunt itself.
more than happy to use the 45/70 a lot...cast projectiles and black powder make it cheap to rum...its only primers that may run short.....unless I really get tightwad and decide to make my own...LOL.

Just an observation. Wandered round the Queenstown H&F on Friday and stood in front of the ammo cabinet for a bit. The usual suspects were on hand, 270, 308, 223, 6.5cretin, even 300 Blackout and a smattering of odds and sods, but no 7mm08. Looked long and hard but nothing, nada, zip.
Also, factory ammo price. I saw some 308 at $119!!! Sure this is only one outlet and I haven’t had to buy any except for two boxes of 223 and a box of 260, which has increased from $60 to $80, so not payed much attention to it over the last few years. 260 was always hard to get and expensive which is one reason I always intended to reload for it but is there any evidence to suggest that another contributing factor to component demand is because of a migration to handloading driven by price?? As MD has so eloquently put it, a box or three is generally more than enough for the average hunter to fulfill their needs for quite some time and even at, say $4/round does it justify tooling up to handload?
As I said, just an observation.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

for the hundreth time...there is NO SHORTAGE if folks stop blasting away at paper or hoarding ammunition...... if a fella fired 3 to check zero,3 to confirm zero that leaves 14 in a box...even if he fires that same 6 rounds on range and 1 round to kill a deer he gets just about 3 deer per box of ammunition which is piss poor going really... makes firing 2 to check zero a bit more attractive...and punching paper with the rimfire or centrefire and cast loads just that much more so.
the days of mag dumping for the hell of it may be gone for the time being (pretty hard without a semi anyway) but with a LITTLE prudence there is more than enough to go around.....heck you fellas took the piss out of toilet paper hoarders....... for good reason.

---

so theres no shortage for me as a pistol shooter ideally shooting 2-300 rounds a week? or a long range dude training before a big comp? i shoot multiple times a week, but id only hunt half a dozen times a year

I'll share similar sentiment to the above comment.

When primers go from $80 per 1k to $300 per 1k in the space of 9 months. When there are very few shipments on the horizon, when it's $20 difference with current pricing between reloading and factory 9mm per 1k rounds.

When you have people absolutely pillaging any new shipment and then $1 reserving the items on tardme, when there are certain projectiles you haven't been able to get for 2 years minimum as their not getting here.

You know there is a serious supply issue with various compounding factors.

The point is it's largely irrelevant how you use you're ammo but the clear cut reality is prices have increased substantially and it's harder if not impossible to get certain things.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

but I HAVE IT...and can still buy it..... there is still some ammunition on the shelves...... I guess it comes back to having lived through harder times.
our grandparents shot pigs with a .12ga and #4 shot as thats all that was around....as a teenager I would get mum to buy (remember those easy times?)a single box of rounds...and when I was down to last 3-4 get another.... using a single barrel break open shotgun for a lot of those formative years taught me to get in close and make the shot count. I recall a driven shoot up in mackenzie basin 50-60 shooters with all sorts of shotguns,including 3 professional rabbiters..at the end of the day a tally up was had....I came out on top and my buddy a close 2nd and we were both using single barrel guns,our round usage was less too...the professional guys werent overly happy about being shown up by a couple of rookies (previous 3 months I had been shooting rabbits full time) it comes down to this,and ONLY THIS.
There is more than enough ammunition and components for zeroing rifle and hunting....... if you want to shoot a couple of hundred rounds into paper,maybe you might need to take up casting projectiles and look at lighter charges of powder to eak out what you can get...or not.
its like anything,supply and demand,reduce the supply and you up the demand...reduce the demand and supply keeps up if not slows down as no market for it.

---

Attachment 203755
I do not know what parallel universe you grew up in but in my youth we used semi-auto shotguns and bought CAC ammo by the case,22 and 22mag by the brick.I never saw a single barrel shotgun in a duck blind and we had a bach at Lake Ellesmere for 50 years. Pig shooters would use 303's 308's and 44/40's and if a 12 gauge slugs or buckshot. 303 ammo was every where and had little value and traded or given away to younger shooters.

OK, am in Englandshire at the mo ( :o ) and managed to make a detour to a quiet little gunshop. Found these:

Attachment 203756

They were below RRP as well (still not cheap at £50 per tub...) but the wholesaler themselves are showing this price for all Reloder grade :oh noes: Attachment 203757

Simillar feeling to when I managed to located 300 145 .277 ELDX in another small Englandshire shop. Places with no website (or a really crap one!) might have stuff that others have overlooked.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Howa1500

so theres no shortage for me as a pistol shooter ideally shooting 2-300 rounds a week? or a long range dude training before a big comp? i shoot multiple times a week, but id only hunt half a dozen times a year

---

yes I do understand that side of it......my bad.am talking from a hunting point of view so guess I SHALL JUST SHUT UP..... and the range shooting folks should stay out of any discussion to do with taking of game or filling freezer too???

pistol rounds...hmm lets see,3-4-5 grns of ???blue dot and cast projectiles still around in droves,so its really only primers that will knee cap you. good luck,be frugal and hope for the best.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rock river arms hunter

I'll share similar sentiment to the above comment.

When primers go from $80 per 1k to $300 per 1k in the space of 9 months. When there are very few shipments on the horizon, when it's $20 difference with current pricing between reloading and factory 9mm per 1k rounds.

When you have people absolutely pillaging any new shipment and then $1 reserving the items on tardme, when there are certain projectiles you haven't been able to get for 2 years minimum as their not getting here.

You know there is a serious supply issue with various compounding factors.

The point is it's largely irrelevant how you use you're ammo but the clear cut reality is prices have increased substantially and it's harder if not impossible to get certain things.

---

we agree on some points...people pillaging yip DEFINATELY an issue.... good luck.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tedz50

Attachment 203755
I do not know what parallel universe you grew up in but in my youth we used semi-auto shotguns and bought CAC ammo by the case,22 and 22mag by the brick.I never saw a single barrel shotgun in a duck blind and we had a bach at Lake Ellesmere for 50 years. Pig shooters would use 303's 308's and 44/40's and if a 12 gauge slugs or buckshot. 303 ammo was every where and had little value and traded or given away to younger shooters.

---

parralel universe of kingcountry in the 80s before/during and after sharemarket crash..so interest rates up to 30% on one mortguage....mortguagee sales all around including our own farm,so yes money was tighter than a fishes arse.
Tokoroa pines were shotgun only so brought up with single barrel shotgun being "the norm" ....it was my possum skin money that bought my ammunition and anything else a teen needed...no silver spoon in my mouth,wooden spoon around my arse forsure.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

yes I do understand that side of it......my bad.am talking from a hunting point of view so guess I SHALL JUST SHUT UP..... and the range shooting folks should stay out of any discussion to do with taking of game or filling freezer too???

pistol rounds...hmm lets see,3-4-5 grns of ???blue dot and cast projectiles still around in droves,so its really only primers that will knee cap you. good luck,be frugal and hope for the best.

---

No, no, and no. There will be no shutting up!!! I love a good lively discussion As long as there is no personal attacks/abuse, a robust debate always brings insight. Continue to have at it.

I shot a packet of cheap power point 30 06 Winchester 150gr ammo off yesterday.
Went to the local today to replace it
$44.99 on the old box
$64.99 on the new one
Fark.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tedz50

Attachment 203755
I do not know what parallel universe you grew up in but in my youth we used semi-auto shotguns and bought CAC ammo by the case,22 and 22mag by the brick.I never saw a single barrel shotgun in a duck blind and we had a bach at Lake Ellesmere for 50 years. Pig shooters would use 303's 308's and 44/40's and if a 12 gauge slugs or buckshot. 303 ammo was every where and had little value and traded or given away to younger shooters.

---

Like that model 57 Marlin. Nice.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Got-ya

Like that model 57 Marlin. Nice.

---

Just to drag the conversation in another direction I loved that 57M and jollied it up with araldite and glitter deer and a saddle ring but wore the micro-groove barrel out so it moved on. I would love to get it back as it was a natural pointer and slick as.
Attachment 203773