Thread: chasing groups off the paper

Hi Guys


So i haven't put any rounds through my rifle in awhile and just wanted to recheck my zero. Last animal i shot at I missed clean under the target.
Set up a target at 100m. My father inlaw would shoot 3 shots, we'd walk check his group. Walk back and I'd then shoot my 3, vice versa.

I was happy with my shooting, which means the miss on the animal i had was only down to my poor shot. I think i just need to spend more time behind the rifle and get comfortable.


But the main point for this thread was my father inlaws rifle. shooting .270 federal power-shok ammo, steel blue'd barrel, not 100% sure on the make and model.
3 shots, 2 holes - 3 inches high 1 inch apart. 1 hole - 3 inches left of the 2 others. I think he pulled this one.
3 shots, 6 inches high 3 inch overall spread.
3 shots, off the box. Thought he might of had some issues getting his position right so i put a few rounds through his rifle as i was feeling good after my groups.
my 3 shots nothing on paper either, 8 inches of paper around the target and nothing.

After the 2nd group went off the paper i questioned the guy's ability who mounted his new scope, or if when he zero'd it in the weekend prior if he had moved his elevation accidentally at all. Nope, all was snug and no elevation change on turret.

A bit stumped, we walked back to the ute to put 1 round bottom to the paper to see where it might hit. 16 inches of paper above to work with and nothing.
Brought the box back into 50m, put 1 shot through hit the target center. Put another through and was an couple inches higher.

After bringing the box back in to 50m and the rifle being back on target. I thought the scope was mounted fine and elevation was correct.

So my question, If what I've written is understandable.What do you guys think the reason for 2 x 3 shot groups and a single shot after, going off the paper?

The only explanation i could come up with was that the barrel was getting to hot with the 3 shot groups and loosing its accuracy, the initial 4 x 3 shot groups would of all been in the space of 45min.
All i thought after was lucky we didn't start dialing down the scope after the second group got high otherwise we might of been chasing a hot barrel around the paper?

I've said to him not to touch anything on the rifle but when he can pop out and put a couple more down at 100m and see what the rifle will do with a cold clean barrel.

Sounds like.something is coming loose
Scope ring
Scope mount
Action screws

What brand is the scope? If above is fine they try another scope

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

Scope is a Leupold VX2. He shot the weekend before to zero it all after having the scope mounted by a store and it was hitting the paper and he was happy with it. But he said it was creeping up a bit towards the end of the evening. he was just wanting to spend this evening behind the rifle to tighten up his groups. But we walked away feeling a bit defeated.

We had a basic screw driver set out there and he checked over all the screws and nothing was loose. No play or movement in the scope, would you expect to feel the play if something was loose enough to put the sight out by that much?

I'm not too sure if he's ever taken his rifle to a range and put a box of ammo through it before to know what it does. Normally shoot a couple rounds into the quarry wall on our way into the bush and we're happy.

Check the rifles bedding and recoil lug and tension on the action screws if it's loose in the stock it could account for what you've described.

Thanks guys. I'll tell him to re check all his screws again. Might be time to buy a fat wrench.

How hot was the barrel?

Is the rifle a 1980's Winchester Model 70 ?

Rifle is a h&r 340 in. 270.

We might of found the culprit. After checking all the screws which were tight. He pulled the action and barrel off the stock. The rear action screw normally has had a spacer, but this time the spacer was not there. He can't remember misplacing it, or back prior to lockdown if reassembling it he just simply forgot to put it back in. There shouldn't be a reason the shop who mounted the scope would of pulled the action off the stock, so he assumes he's just missed it.
Now to get a new spacer made up and hopefully problem solved.

if scope was creeping backwards,as you said...that will poke shots higher....check your free float in barrel channel,assume thats where Moa Hunter was going,they were a bitch to move wooden stock into contact or the sling screw.
you did good by swapping shooter,eliminates rhymes with grinch somewhat.
if scope can creep and rings are tight.....thin SMALL piece of insulation tape on scope insie rings will give it some bite....my old old old weaver clip overs will do this as have been on and off many times over years and old weaver bearcub scope was painted (not by me) and had stretched them.

I had this happen recently with a 22 of all things - went from bang on to no where near the paper relatively quickly - found that the elevation turret wasnt "clicking" anymore on adjustment. pulled the turret apart and found there is a screw/for a detent in the turret that had come loose which meant the detent wasn't holding the set zero anymore and every movement of the rifle or recoil was shifting the turret. Bushnell scope

We looked over the rifle a bit. I took the rifle apart and inspected the stock, the old bedding had a bit of a lip where the recoil lug was seating. When putting it back together upon tightening the recoil lug screw there was a point i thought it'd sheared the screw off cause the tension gave way. But, i now realized the recoil lug had caught on the lip and as the screw had pulled on the tension it'd pulled the lug past this lip to seat in the bedding. So I'm not too sure if this was the culprit from the start but after I'd tightened everything up the throat of the barrel was fouling on the stock also.
My father in-law decided to get the rifle re-bedded as what was existing had seen better days and some clearances needed to be re-checked by a professional, this would then eliminate this as an issue. He got the rifle back and its back on paper which is great.

But, he seems to think he's developed a bit of a flinch why his groupings aren't great, he's been given some advice about dry firing and shooting techniques. I've said to him to try a different ammo also, as his rifle might not be shooting the federal power shok consistently. Could be a combination of both why his groups aren't tighter. But, the rifle is back on paper and hitting the target.

Personaly I think 3 x3 round groups is possibly not enough data to rule out various anomolies, and it makes the job of problem solving a little more difficult based on minimal information. If it were me, encountering a head scratching wtf moment like this, I would go back and fire more rounds. Starting with at least three or four 5rnd groups at 25m to confirm the zero (checking every group seperately) to confirm that everything is functioning as intended and nothing is loose. Then move the target back to 50 metres and reconfirming, and then again to 100m.
Process of elimination is the best way to come to a conclusion. You need more data before proceeding.