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Thinking of getting an old .303 either a parker or enfield, id use it as a budget bush gun so Ill be shooting under 100 yards most likely.
However i heard that some of these old guns couldnt hit the broadside of a barn let alone the broadside of a deer.. is it worth the investment?
I wouldnt spend more than $250 and wouldnt bother with an optic.
Cheers guys! :)
depends how fucked it is
Obviously i would avoid ones that have been totally neglected or been the victim of time, You get what you pay for so i dont mind a bit of pitting or even rust as i can just sand/reblue. The ones i looked all generally seem to be in okay condition for the age.
if the bores fucked it wont shoot accurately and if its real bad the bullet will actually tumble and hit the target sideways
if the bores good they can be very accurate
most sporterized rifles are around that $100-$150 mark but not all are equal you need to view the rifle and know what your looking at to get a good one
a good way to get an idea if its completely fucked or not is get a 303 round and stick the projectile in the muzzle end it should be a tight fit if its sloppy its fucked but you need to look at the rifling aswell
doesn't realy matter what the outside looks like its the inside that matters I've seen mint looking rifles with fucked bores and I've seen absolute shitters with an awesome bore give me the shitter with the good bore any day of the week as you say you can tidy up the outside if need be
Some are in fantastic condition and some are only good as a tomato stake.
A Parker hale conversion in fair condition makes for a very nice rifle and can be cheep-the one I have looks like it's hardly been used and cost less than your budget. Some people do try and sell them high so bide you time
Ill try that test with the bullet and muzzle, so basically if i still see rifling it should be sweet?
I really dont care if it looks like junk as it will be out in the elements anyway and its a tool not a display piece
Really appreciating the help guys!
I had a mint unsporterised one, awesome metal work, no rust or pitting. The bore however was pitted the full length. It wasn't my cup of tea anyway so I sold it to an enthusiast who later told me it shot like a demon.
no they will all have rifling I depends on the quality of it how smooth it is how much pitting it has from past rust ect etcQuote:
Originally Posted by Scottishkiwi
personally though don't waste your money save up and buy a more modern bush gun
@rambo-6mmrem Its only to tie me over and to get me out in the bush more, once i gain more experience and confidence ill step up to a remington or tikka.. plus im a history buff so its cool to have a piece of history.. even if its a bit rusty :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FATTLGUPIc
heres an idea 1st barrel not so good 2nd barrel good
That bore scopes a neat bit of kit. Will gun stores have that kinda thing handy?
Got to be careful with those bore scopes. I had an old BLR 308 with a "badly pitted bore" where it had suffered neglect by previous owner to me. Only problem I had was it was hard to say goodbye. It shot inch and a half at 100m with cheap ammo and was light to carry. A bit hard on extraction but worth it. Bore scope and gunsmith said barrel was stuffed and not to expect anything better than a shot gun pattern and I know of a 8x57 mauser woth a "corroded throat" that shot every bit as well....yet the other newer rifle a mate had, mint bore and shot like shit......
another one to look at would be a m96/m38 usually can be picked up cheap and usualy a very accurate rifle
I shot a mates enfield 303 last week , at 100 metres with open sights ...... shooting at a clay ... holy fuk was it bad , im no marksmen but I wouldn't hunt with his one unless the deer were all standing togeather shoulder to shoulder .....
Even with a dodgy bore they can suprise you, I have one withh a throat so worn a projectile will drop to nearly the rear sight, and the bore would could only be described as containing traces of rifling. It shoots 4 1/2 in groups at 100 with surplus ammo or flat base reloads perfectly adequate for close range hunting. However use a boat tail bullet and if they hit the target they're sideways. 10 round mag and clip loading you can almost match a black gun for speed
a Parker Hale .303 sporter at about $350 in good shape on TM would be my choice . . . the couple i have shot with good ammo ( not a mixture cheap military ball ammo of 1940s vintage ) have been surprisingly accurate, around 1.5-2MOA.
there really is no practical reason why you should ever have to trade up if you get a good one . . fight the urge and put the money into a good scope
get a barrel with loose spots and a damaged crown and it gets ugly . . . but strangely ( to me ) even horrendously pitted barrels, i mean they look totally fckd, have shot very well.
ok look at it this way..... bush hunting is usually tight with most shots under 100 yards with the norm being under 50.
deers vitals 6-8" so you really want a 3-4" group or better which isn't a huge ask.
my 7.62x39mm does 2-3" all day long and is a great bush rifle and the deer go down,a .303 brit has a lot more punch/power/velocity/bullet weight
always good to have a rifle in cabinet that you can use n abuse and there isn't one much better than the S.M.L.E. for that,they will work in conditions that more modern action wont.
some rifles will prefer the 150 grn and others the 180grn others you can get away with using the 123grn .310 pills made for the x39mm and reduce recoil way down, but be aware that most SMLEs being a rear locking action (p14 isn't and is a mauser) usually print different weight projectiles to different points of impact, sometimes a considerable distance away from another.
the day will come when you spot deer at 200-300 yards and know you have to try to stalk closer,thats when the newer/more accurate rifle is needed.
My old 1944 303. I've had it since I was about 19 (34-years). Originally I used it as a pig gun with open sights. I had a gunsmith shorten it to the shortest legal length for the pigs. Eventually I put a 2.5 Weaver on it and used it as my general hunting rifle. With the short barrel and 2.5 scope it shoots 2" groups at 100 yards, which i reckon is pretty damn good considering! I still enjoy taking a 72-year old rifle out for a walk! And of course the boot laces on the sling make it shoot better..... ;-) Attachment 55319
Half the useability of a weapon is the sight. At least get one with aperture sight ie no.4.
Safety is much better with a scope. Even 3x would reduce your chances of shooting someone.
Installing a scope will be expensive. Check the base block and avoid parker hale alloy rings as these will be half stripped out and 19mm fit rings are difficult to replace (Needs CZ 550 series fit) . Only accept a fairly new scope or older quality brand as you dont want to replace a scope on a $250 budget.
Ask around you might find someone happy to move a solid well set up weapon on to a good home. Eg family or mates heirloom thats worth more than money so they wont sell it to a dealer or a random on trade me.
Buy gun. Test accuracy. If over 4 inch at 100yd trade and try another. You will find a good one.
The design is excellent. Several worthwhile features have been lost in "modern" rifles.
Yea nah, unless you want it for nostalgia just buy the cheapest Savage, Mossberg or Remington you can find. I've seen them in 7mm08 or 308 for around the $500 mark with a scope, a much better setup for the money
Guncity wellingron has one for $250 with a sythentic stock and a scope mount. I sold it to them and it shot a 4" group at 100m. It has been chopped right down tho and kicks like a bitch, which is why i got rid of it
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New barrels can be found for around 100bucks.
Mine shoots better than I can with the open sites.
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https://youtu.be/ZrW3T73hdNM
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can you post a link to where from please?Quote:
Originally Posted by veitnamcam
I got one off of a member on here.
Old but new in grease.
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I was looking the lea Enfield way and saw some real crap. Finished up buying a Mossberg/ scoped 7mm08 2nd hand for $465. Light, shoots good ticks all the boxes. Some think they are shit I don't. Take a look at your gun shop to see what they are like. Compare the budget rifles with other guns available in that budget. Just keep looking and something will turn up old/newer. Keep a open mind, nothing wrong with the budget rifles
bumblefoot have you considered putting a suppressor on the old girl??????? man she would be a real pussy to use if you did.
Ill take one of those $100 barrels as well!! Another interesting option is an Enfield converted to 7.62x39, although if you had to pay someone to do it a Norinco 7.62x39 bolt action is probably cheaper, or an sks
I'd hate to ruin the antique charm.... ;-)Quote:
Originally Posted by Micky Duck
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan88
Yes, so to bring one like this up to useable standard:
Pachmayr recoil pad $80
CZ550 rings $120
Redfield renegade 2-7x32 $260
total cost $710
So you would sure be better off with a new entry level scoped rifle package.
Just buy an old Husqvarna,cant go wrong. If its in good condition it will be a lifelong weapon even for ya grandkids.
I don't think anyone has mentioned it yet but get the headspace checked if you can before buying. This is especially important with Lee Enfields, as I understand it; rushed war-time production, a rimmed cartridge, and rear locking lugs add up to some slop in the headspacing after tens of thousands of rounds (which most of these .303's will have done). Most gun shops and just about all gunsmiths will have the headspace gauges for .303 British, but you might not know with a private sale. If you end up buying a nice one and it closes on the 'no-go' gauge, all is not lost as the bolt heads just unscrew to swap out, and they were produced in different lengths (lettered corresponding with length e.g. M,N,O) and gunsmiths will often have a box of bolt heads to rummage through to find one that's good to go.
I haven't had a lot of experience with them. Had a nice Parker Hale version that shot like crap crap and after shooting 10 - 12 rounds I had a look at the spent case to find the primers were so pierced by the firing pin I could see day light ( all the way through.
Took it back. Had another that a mates looking after that's a 1916 year that's also been sported up, even bedded. Shoots 2-3 inchs at 100mtr, would have been a very nice rifle in it's day.
There is something cool about walking out for a hunt or stalking around with a rifle of that age and history, however once the nostalgia wears off sometimes you have to admit that the idea is better than the reality.
However if carrying a bit of history is your thing ( I like the idea ) then it can be extremely satisfying to knock an animal over with a 70yr old plus rifle.
And of course if you do leave very early one morning and slog silently to the top of a very big hill that resembles Chunik Bar and the deer are coming at you thick and fast.......well you have the right bit of kit
I have my late uncles one. He used it to put himself through university.
Taken it on a few walks.
It also shoots very well:) but just be wear.
Was onto a mob of goats in some manuka and while working the bolt the gun AD on me?
Scared the living daylights out of me.
A small manuka leaf had caught up under the bolt. Which I turn caused it to discharge.
Still a great gun though.
@Scottishkiwi my view and my view only but a 303 wont help you to build confidence or experience they kick like shit which as much as you say I don't mind it dose make a differenceQuote:
Originally Posted by Scottishkiwi
and the history part well in my opinion that's gone when someone takes it out of it military configuration (sportarizes it )
I was a young new shooter as well and been there done that
It was my first thought, but ammo isnt cheap and finding a good cheap 303 is harder. So I opted for the sks, easy to find reliable and the one I have is good out to 150m on open sights, miss and you have another 5 to follow that one real quick.
And ammo is cheap and easy to get in all sorts of types.
Yeah thats a very good point, the 303 ammo has become quite expensive. I also had SKS, great little round, I put a scope on mine 1.5 MOA at 100 mtrs and pleasant to shoot and got plenty of smack down, soft points, hollow points, fmj, hort fast and makes a very handy bush rifle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Natatale
.308 Weatherby Vanguard | Trade Me
$1R 6.5 x 55 mm Carl Gustav Swedish Mauser! | Trade Me
.243 Parker Hale | Trade Me
Savage 7mm-08 Savage Axis Near new | Trade Me
there's lots of options for under 500 dollars that are way better options than a 303
ammo cheaper and easier to buy as well ive been down the 303 route in-fact ive had a few and in my honest opinion its a waste of money (and that's comeing from a guy that likes old guns) but I still stick to my tikka for hunting if you want one for history reasons get a good full wood one and shoot it on the range but honestly its a case of buy once cry once when it comes to a good hunter
