Printable View
I just bought a muzzle forward can from DPT to go on my 300blkout - like the look and weight of them.
Had to pick up my bushpig from Gunworks and they said they would never put a muzzle forward can on an AR as it there is too great a risk of misalignment occurring. Really??
I also have very good gunworks suppressors so am not biased to any manufacture...(that might change after I try out my new DPT can).
Gunsmiths will say all sorts of shit to get you to buy their shit;)
Yeah I guess so. I have or have had MAE, Greystone, DPT, and Gunworks suppressors but this is my first forward can.
I had my Gunsmith ask me, when I asked him the same kinda question, why the Navy Seals would all use Muzzle Forwards if they were so fragile? Makes a bit of sense I suppose...
True.
Police cans are all forward.
So a nice heavy solid Waikati Engineering can on my 20in AR will be fine - from a bipod ;)
I'm under the belief that more can forward is the best for sound reduction
Sorry wasn't really answering your question
Gunworks in particular would say anything to claw back a fraction of the market share they have lost over the last few years.
Take with a LARGE grain of salt. Actually, just ignore cos it's complete bollocks.
Any muzzle forward has more potential to be bent out of alignment than a two point.
Why being on an AR makes any difference at all to the risk of it being bent is beyond me?
Cos AR owners are unco 'tacticool' muppets? Or a bit bent themselves. :ORLY:Quote:
Originally Posted by veitnamcam
Who did the thread on the muzzle in the first place?
And how lose is the thread when the can is fully on the thread almost about to to be tightened against back shoulder?
That would be my two first concern ,then make sure can is aligned with bore and you will be all sweet.
It si funny that gunworks said that, cause if I remember well there was for sale on trademe a tikka in 300 blackout built by them and their suppressor was modified as a muzzles forward. The muzzle of barrel was just finishing past the fore end of the stock.
Barrel is factory thread Wilson from memory.
Cos one has to make sure the can stays tight on the thread and with an AR no one checks anything until the mag is empty.Quote:
Originally Posted by veitnamcam
I would say anything made and fitted by Mark at Waitaki Engineering will be perfectly fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerbs
Good thread fits tightened firm the first time will not loosen, especially with the self tightening design of some suppressors.
DPT will tell you different when you buy one of him.Quote:
Originally Posted by veitnamcam
I guess 100round drum mags could loosen anything if that's your thing.
NaQuote:
Originally Posted by DavidGunn
muzzle forward QD cans with locking feature tho, not screw onQuote:
Originally Posted by dirtyhabit
Misalignment is not dependant on whether the suppressor is a back over the barrel or a forward mounting type.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tikka7mm08
Muzzle / muzzle thread quality and the quality of the suppressor are key things.
Best Regards!
Tuukka Jokinen
Ase Utra sound suppressors
I think the worry gun works is meaning is the suppressor can come lose after a few shots not a big issue if you check it offen
A muzzle forward can has two scenarios that can cause misalignment; the first is coming loose on the thread, and the second is getting bent from a fall or knock (this is more of a problem with aluminium construction rather than steel). Over-barrel units are more efficient because of the larger internal volume (giving a larger primary expansion chamber), and also provide much stronger support in the event of loosening or falls. The area of weakness in a muzzle can is the attachment of the rear plat to the tube, rather than the tube itself. Remember that gas expands equally in all directions, and a well designed internal muzzle brake in an over-barrel unit can trap and deflect must of the muzzle gas back down the over-barrel tube. The best design has no isolating tube, but that is reliant upon a good sealing back plate and a layer of protective grease on the barrel (I find Copper Kote is very good). An isolating tube does away with the need for a good barrel seal but diminishes the internal volume by a large amount.
Darren at DPT said there was no difference in performance of muzzle forward vs over-barrel (assuming same volume I imagine).
Couple of points.
As long as the threads on both barrel and suppressor match without too much clearance there wont be an issue, if there is a ton of play and the suppressor comes loose and drops down the bullet can hit the baffles, over barrels don't have this problem.
My muzzle forward and over barrel offer the same sound reduction, gasses do expand in all directions but they are traveling forward at a great rate so the rear section of the over barrel doesn't see the same pressure as the expansion chamber of the muzzle forward. So the over barrel needs to have more internal volume to offer the same sound reduction.
The isolator tube can be removed from mine but would offer bugger all difference in sound reduction, and you get a dirty barrel. why bother?
If all of the gasses could be diverted to the over barrel section then we would be seeing a lot of over barrel suppressors that only extend 10mm past the muzzle (I wish)
The advantages of the over barrel are they extend less forward of the muzzle and if you have a loose thread its not too much of a problem if they come loose.
Darren
Gunsmiths comment: there are certain applications where an over barrel suppressor is the best choice, and others where a muzzle can/forward type is the best choice.
On some of the heavy barrel rifles coming out now, the barrels are too fat to be accomdated by alot of the overbarrel units currently on the market. On these a muzzle can type unit with an M18 or bigger thread is a sensible choice. Or, the only choice.
Any decent suppressor will add at least 4 - 6" forward of your muzzle anyway. Overbarrel suppressors will retain barrel heat under the unit for longer, which can be a problem for some applications like range or varmint shooting. Compact muzzle cans like the locally made ODL or SileNZ units feature self-tightening design to help overcome the tendency for the sprialling propellent gas to unwind silencers on conventional RH thread. But they still need to be checked occassionally.
Any chances of baffle strike on a muzzle can type unit are only ever due to an alignment problem with the muzzle thread on the barrel, concentricity problems in the silencer itself, excessively sloppy thread fit, or, in the event of a bad fall or misadventure - damage to the unit from excessive side impact force (which is not really something that can ever be completely designed against.)
Muzzle can units can be very good choice on AR rifle, and bolt guns used for target or vamint shooting.
Over-barrel units are usually preferred choice for rough field work like deer or alpine hunting rifles where the risk of falls is greater, and keeping muzzle-forward length to a minimum is a requirement.
Dean.
Overbarrels are less efficient in terms of sound reduction to weight ratio, generally speaking (depending on design of the muzzle can...). The over barrel expansion chambers add a lot of metal for a little volume... some are very small indeed e.g. on the 38mm dia cans... there's also wasted space of sorts with them being made to be "one size fits all" on barrels of various diameter, the expansion chambers could be larger + have less clearance from a small dia barrel which would reduce that ratio but, with manufacturing difficulty + stock holding etc isn't going to happen I guess. My R8 barrel is a bit of a fatty and I still have approx 4mm clearance all round that could be internal volume instead? might help
An overbarrel can coming loose on a tapered barrel the rear bush doesn't necessarily support it to prevent barrel strike? And you can't use e.g. a Belleville washer to prevent it coming loose as you can with a muzzle forward can.
Currently using an overbarrel as it provides a shorter OAL than the muzzle cans I had, but it is noticeably less effective for sound reduction.
Oh shit 5001 posts, what a waste of time that's been
Its 5011 right now Gimp you have been busy today :DQuote:
Originally Posted by gimp
You must have a hell of a shoulder to use a Bellville washer?
Not especially?Quote:
Originally Posted by veitnamcam
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g2...pszvdq3jlg.jpg
No point of reference:D
38mm can, approx .750" barrel
Thread size?
Half by 28 of course
Ah so bloody big shoulder to pull the washer up on :)Quote:
Originally Posted by gimp
.125"? Not massive really. Also have used on others.