Thread: Cutting Edge .22lr ammo - what do you guys make of this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApP1e_EVbFY

Sounds expensive but may take the .22lr to new heights...though I wonder if .22mag and 17WSM etc would work better.

hmm they are calling 300 long range- thats already well within what current target 22 ammo can do very well. only so much that can be done to make a mag feed healed .22 have a better bc.

It will be interesting to see how they perform.
If done well and not to limited in OAL they could potentially double the BC of standard 22 ammo.

The biggest issue with 22 ammo is consistency, if they can get the velocity to be consistent and everything made to a high tolerance people will buy them and they will be a huge advantage over other match ammo.

Originally Posted by Beetroot

It will be interesting to see how they perform.
If done well and not to limited in OAL they could potentially double the BC of standard 22 ammo.

The biggest issue with 22 ammo is consistency, if they can get the velocity to be consistent and everything made to a high tolerance people will buy them and they will be a huge advantage over other match ammo.

Waiting for someone to set up a plastic moulding machine to make little pointy orange bits to insert into .22LR hollow points to turn them into spitzers.

A bit like these:
Corbin January 2020 Bullet Swaging Price List

A spitzer has an advantage out at longer ranges where it is unlikely to expand well. Tumbling on impact.

Originally Posted by Cordite

Waiting for someone to set up a plastic moulding machine to make little pointy orange bits to insert into .22LR hollow points to turn them into spitzers.

A bit like these:
Corbin January 2020 Bullet Swaging Price List

A spitzer has an advantage out at longer ranges where it is unlikely to expand well. Tumbling on impact.

I have tried that already with BIC pen nibs

At 200yrds no difference in group centre height

At 300 yrds no difference in group centre height

It seems when subsonic that mass is more dominant than BC

CCI subs. @ 1070 FPS

G1 BC of .150

Originally Posted by 7mmsaum

I have tried that already with BIC pen nibs

At 200yrds no difference in group centre height

At 300 yrds no difference in group centre height

It seems when subsonic that mass is more dominant than BC

CCI subs. @ 1070 FPS

G1 BC of .150

Apparently for subsonic the base of the projectile has more impact on drag than the nose, the opposite of super sonic

Originally Posted by Kiwi Greg

Apparently for subsonic the base of the projectile has more impact on drag than the nose, the opposite of super sonic

so boat tails then?

I could see this being a plus in 22mag but not lr

A lot of the cutting edge bullets will not work in your factory 16 twist barrels. I haven't seen too many factory rifles come out with the option of 1:9. Maybe Voodoo?

And mag feeding an all copper 50gn bullet just is not going to be an option.

Originally Posted by 300CALMAN

so boat tails then?

I could see this being a plus in 22mag but not lr

I think possibly that would be one way forward

Traditionally 22LR has only been competitively shot accurately at 25, 50 & 100 in that order from most to least amount

Shooting 12" steel plates out to & beyond 500 yards is well outside the current ammos design parameters

Then there is the twist rate required, presumably faster than the current standard 16 twist, they were talking 9 & even faster in that video, a massive increase in twist

Honestly I don't understand the point of this exercise. The appeal of 22LR shooting is low ammo cost. Usually people train with training grade ammo and compete with competition grade ammo, aside from accuracy they shoot exactly the same.

These ammo, individually machined, and made of solid copper, wil be more expensive than standard 22WM and 17 HMR. possibly approaching the price of bulk 223.

You dont save money on the gun either, since you will have to get a new 9 or 6 twist barrel plus installation.

Originally Posted by 7mmsaum

I have tried that already with BIC pen nibs

At 200yrds no difference in group centre height

At 300 yrds no difference in group centre height

It seems when subsonic that mass is more dominant than BC

CCI subs. @ 1070 FPS

G1 BC of .150

This is brilliant. Methinks... if no difference, then your pointy nibs exatly made up for the weight they added, that is, more joules delivered with no penalty.

Originally Posted by Ultimitsu

Honestly I don't understand the point of this exercise. The appeal of 22LR shooting is low ammo cost. Usually people train with training grade ammo and compete with competition grade ammo, aside from accuracy they shoot exactly the same.

These ammo, individually machined, and made of solid copper, wil be more expensive than standard 22WM and 17 HMR. possibly approaching the price of bulk 223.

You dont save money on the gun either, since you will have to get a new 9 or 6 twist barrel plus installation.

These are prototypes, modern solid copper bullets are usually cold swaged and a machine can turn out precise bullets at a fast rate, fed from giant roll of fat copper wire.

Originally Posted by Ultimitsu

Honestly I don't understand the point of this exercise. The appeal of 22LR shooting is low ammo cost. Usually people train with training grade ammo and compete with competition grade ammo, aside from accuracy they shoot exactly the same.

These ammo, individually machined, and made of solid copper, wil be more expensive than standard 22WM and 17 HMR. possibly approaching the price of bulk 223.

You dont save money on the gun either, since you will have to get a new 9 or 6 twist barrel plus installation.

Its the same appeal as shooting ELR with a centrefire, not to take game effectively but the skill and challenge.

Rimfire ELR is a lot cheaper and more accessible than centrefire, much easier to shoot 22lr safely at 500m than 308 and 1500m, or 3000m with a proper ELR cartridge.

Originally Posted by Cordite

These are prototypes, modern solid copper bullets are usually cold swaged and a machine can turn out precise bullets at a fast rate, fed from giant roll of fat copper wire.

All Cutting Edge projectiles are CNC turned out of copper or brass on Swiss style lathes

Originally Posted by Ultimitsu

Honestly I don't understand the point of this exercise. The appeal of 22LR shooting is low ammo cost. Usually people train with training grade ammo and compete with competition grade ammo, aside from accuracy they shoot exactly the same.

These ammo, individually machined, and made of solid copper, wil be more expensive than standard 22WM and 17 HMR. possibly approaching the price of bulk 223.

You dont save money on the gun either, since you will have to get a new 9 or 6 twist barrel plus installation.

This isn't about saving money its about hitting targets at stupid ranges (300-900m) with a 22LR

You would not believe the number of guys who have a 22 trainer that is essentially identical to the centrefire competition rifle right down to the overall weight, stock, scope, trigger etc

Its not hard to spend as much or more on a decent 22 compared to a decent centrefire, it will always be cheaper to run an ELR rimfire compared to a centrefire.

This makes me reminisce on the most interesting folly project ever, the 4.5mm MKR. Cold swaged solid copper bullets looking like extra-sharp SMKs shot out of necked down .22magnum curve taper cartridges, said to be as lethal as 5.56 out to 300m (soft) targets due to extreme impact tumble. The chief designer, a Mr Kjellgren, went on to form Kel-Tec -- you can here see the mind from which some of Kel-Tec's more unusual gun ideas spring from.