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What do you guys think of them? Thinking of getting one as my first rifle to shoot pigs goats and small game with. Wondering if i should just say fuck it and buy a .223 instead of a 22lr/17. The only thing holding me back is ammo cost and my low ish budget of 1400 for everything
To be honest, I would suggest the 223. The price difference between 223 ammo and WMR or HMR or the 17m2 ammo is negligible and the performance difference is huge. Anything you can do with a WMR / HMR can be done as well or better with a 223. Cheap WMR / HMR ammo is about $30 per 50 ($60 per 00) and decent 223 ammo can be purchased for around $70 for 100 rounds. And if you start looking at 223 then you could also look at 7.62x39 ....Quote:
Originally Posted by MatiriHunter
22LR would be worth it for practise, plinking and rabbits etc.
Especially as It’s your first rifle, but also just in general - please do not go targeting pigs and goats with rimfire rounds, they’re simply not sufficient for consistently humane shooting of game that size.
Can they do the job if you get everything 100% right all the time? Sure. But that’s not the real world..
Use a round with sufficient and reliable killing power such as 223 instead.
Alright, well my dad just got a 223 and i've shot multiple deer with them, but i want to get my own setup for close stalking and quiet shooting pigs and goats and a good all rounder, but i dont think he'd let me get a 223 since we literally just got one, even if i wont be able to use it very much. Any other calibres sound good for those purposes? I've heard good things about 7.62x39 and 30 30s but im not sure how quiet they are or how quiet i could make them. I'm a huge advocate of humane killing as every hunter should be so i dont want to buy the wrong calibre.
If pigs and goats are on the agenda then 223, but unless you have a suitably large property to shoot on 22 or 17hmr will be far safer for rabbits and shares, as well as less likely to upset neighbours.
Can effectively forget shooting possums also.
Usually I'd say start with a 22 as it's likely to be the one rifle/cartridge that you will always own.
IMHO
.22 plinking, or suppressed short range small varmints. Cheap ammo options available
.22mag (or .17 etc) Good for longer range small varmints where you don’t want to be overshooting your target zone. Prices similarly to .223
.223. The magic bullet for small to medium varmints, good range, inexpensive ammo.
.308 Large cal for red deer, pigs etc
There are many options, and opinions- but this identifies your core range
Safety rules always apply.
.22LR should not really be a consideration if targeting pigs or goats. Sure it might do in a pinch, or if you were a professional, but choosing a .22lr as your first rifle with the intention of taking it out after pigs and goats, imo is not good form.
I mean it can certainly do in a pinch with the right shot placement, loads of people will take a shot at a deer or a pig or whatever if they stumbled across one while out after small game with a .22- but its the choosing it for that purpose that is the issue, imo.
Kind of like picking the smallest hooks possible (like sprat hooks) and going snapper fishing..yea you will catch some, and its not illegal, but its real poor form.
A .223 or 7.62x39 would be a much better choice. Maybe even a cheap and cheerful used .22lr for a couple hundred $ (TOZ for example) and some sort of basic .223 etc aswell.
Looking at ammo prices 100 rounds of 223 is about $200 for 100 give or take, and 17 is 270 for 500. I don't think that a 223 is right for me right now just due to ammo cost, i think ill just buy a CZ 455 22lr and a 17 barrel and do pest control on the farm. I feel like a .17 would tip a little piglet over in an instant with a heart/lung shot but correct me if i'm wrong. Thanks for the help/suggestions.
With a perfect shot, sure, however you need to keep in mind that with a .17 you are shooting an extremely light weight projectile, that is made to fragment in small lightly built animals (varmints) as opposed to penetrate deep into the vitals of an animal that is more solidly built.Quote:
Originally Posted by MatiriHunter
This means there is a strong potential that the small little fragile .17 projectile will not penetrate deep enough into a comparatively large and tough animal (pig or goat). If the wind blows your little tiny projectile into the shoulder of a pig or a goat, the projectile will probably explode near the surface creating a shallow crater, no penetration into the vitals, and probably a less than clean kill or a lost/severely wounded animal.
Its possible, but it only allows a very small margin for error.
If you are sure you cant go any bigger than a rimfire, then a .22magnum would be MUCH more appropriate for the larger animals (pigs / goats). It'll shoot a projectile that is up to 3 times the weight of the .17, that wont explode on impact, and will have the necessary qualities needed to hit bone and still make it to the vitals.
Every young bloke should start with a good .22lr. Good means good trigger, reliable scope and accurate in a hunting style rifle. Bolt action preferably.
Forget the multi barrels at this stage and practice with it until you can consistently shoot tight groups from all positions at 25-50 meters.
Borrow the old mans for hunting now. You will likely try a few other setups. It will give you time to work out what will work for you.
Ill buy a 22 magnum barrel then if you think it could kill pigs and goats, sounds perfect.
Attachment 141699Quote:
Originally Posted by MatiriHunter
Might suit, might not.
It's so cheap it makes me nervousQuote:
Originally Posted by Max Headroom
When someone is asking between 22LR and 223, it actually is not clear what they are trying to do. If you wanted 22LR, you wouldnt entertain 223 at all. Vice versa.
If you have plenty of access to hunt with 223, and are not particularly keen on shooting hundreds of rounds at a time for practice, then get 223. Only get 22LR if you intend to do a lot of target practice or your hunting ground has houses nearby and anything more powerful than 22LR is unsafe or too loud.
Between 223 and 17HMR/22WMR, 223 is better for most things. OK bulk 223 ammo are priced quite competitively now compared to 17HMR/22WMR, yet offers far more powerful, range, and kill certainty. 17HMR can shoot out to 150m, but at that distance it is only good for games such as possums, birds, hare, and stoat. if you want to shoot baby goats or piglets you need to do it within 30 metres to ensure perfect shot placement and good power. 17hmr at muzzle has about the same power as 223 at 450 metres (250 ft/lbs).
I own 17 HMR and 223, I use 17 HMR a lot for possums, it is considerably safer than 223 given that you often need to shoot upwards. One other thing I definitely like 17 HMR better than 223 is shooting at steel targets at 100 metres. 223 punch holes to all but the more expensive and thicker steel targets, while 17hmr is far more gentle but is just as accurate at this distance.
Between 17HMR and 22WMR, despite intuition and wind is actually favours 17hmr due to its speed and BC.
See https://www.outdoorlife.com/story/gu...s-of-all-time/
"The .17’s wind drift advantage over the .22 WMR helps sell me. This surprises many shooters who have too often heard that heavier bullets deflect less in winds than do lighter bullets. No, it is high B.C. bullets that deflect less. Muzzle velocity contributes, too. The faster the better. Less wind deflection of 1.5-inches at 100 yards may not seem huge, but its on the ragged edge of a miss on those 2-inch targets. If you’re needing precision more than punch in your rimfire, the .17 HMR is your ticket."
There are data tables in the article that confirms this conclusion.
Or see
Attachment 141808
Or see
Attachment 141809
In my view the only reason to buy 22WMR over 17HMR is if you regularly shoot heavy vermin such as wallabies and goats inside 50 metres, where slight loss of accuracy in immaterial and better killing power is preferred. (which begs the question, why not 223?) Otherwise, i think for most applications 17HMR is better.
Lastly on CZ455, it is a nice, fine rifle for its price. That is what I got. On average, you have a higher chance of getting a CZ455 with meh accuracy than its predecessor CZ452. It is also less refined than its successor CZ 457. From the reviews and general owner reports, it seems that buying T1X has a lower chance of getting one with meh accuracy than CZ 455.
A friend of mine bought a mid-high end Savage 17 HMR 10 years ago, it is the one with spiral fluting and Boyd stock. Great looking rifle but shot poorly. It makes it hard to recommend Savage despite I also own a Savage rifle (not 17hmr) and reviews are generally pretty good.
You could buy the hunting and fishing branded 223 ammo for $1 per round of it makes you feel better. Comes from the same place but different packaging.Quote:
Originally Posted by MatiriHunter
No need to be nervous. I bought 3,000 rounds in Wanganui last week for the farms where I shoot. More of this stuff gets used for pest control in NZ than all the other ammunition sold put together.Quote:
Originally Posted by MatiriHunter
I use hand loads in my rifle, but I went out with my mate’s very battered Sako .223 last week and smashed goats with Belmont ammo, with very precise shots out to 300m without a hint of a problem. Sometimes we tend to overthink things I reckon!
I’ll be straight up about your choices.
It would be a lie to say that a .22LR is completely ineffective, it’s not. But a .22LR will only cleanly kill small to medium pigs and goats if you (a) head shoot them properly, (b) use the correct ammunition, (c) are stalking in really close.
The minute you make even the slightest fuck up, you’ve got a wounded animal running away very fast, and you stand next to no chance of doing anything about it with a rimfire, because they’re out of range in the blink of an eye. Mistakes with this rimfire round are measured by the half centimetre, like very small margins of error.
So is it a sensible choice? Not in a million years. .22LR is a small game / vermin round, end of story.
This past few weeks I’ve reminded myself that the .223 Remington is incredibly versatile. If I were you, I’d be getting a Howa mini action with the 1:8” twist barrel with a package deal scope, shoot cheap and deadly Belmont softpoints, and get out there and get into it. Your primary requirement is to practice shooting cans and so on at different ranges from different positions - learning your drops is the key.
