The ever reliable Stirling Model 20.. why won't they work?

A question for Stirling enthusiasts/masochists & repairmen...

In my quest to find a Stirling m20 that fires more than half a magazine without stopping, I am now on my 4th model 20, and still no closer to the holy grail.

The problem with 'Number 4' is that it will fire the first round, and cycle the second round cleanly into the chamber without tripping/engaging the sear, so the firing pin is not locked back and thus will not fire. It has burst fired a couple of times because of this.
While cycling the bolt slowly by hand, it is possible to engage the sear and lock the firing pin back every time, and get the satisfying click of the trigger releasing the firing pin. But when pulling the bolt rearward and releasing it fast, the bolt skips past the sear and the firing pin stays forward.
(Rifles Number 1, 2 and 3, never did this, they always engaged the sear but always usually failed to feed properly, jamming live rounds or stovepiping empty cases.)
I compared the bottom of the firing pin bar, and there is barely any visible wear compared to others.
I cannot figure this out.
Anyone run across this problem in a Stirling before?

If I can't find a fix for this... anyone want to buy Stirling model 20 parts? Most of it works fine!

So you have 4 complete rifles? Can you swap parts over to sus it out?

Can't help with your specific issue but I had one and liked it. It ran great for a few thousand rounds but gradually became unreliable jamming and misfeeding.. Cleaning didn't help. I was told they had soft components that wore easily.

During the "buyback" I handed in a Model 20 for a friend working overseas. Older well used gun. I put a mag of HV through and it ran just fine. Tried a mag of subsonic and it ate them all too. Thought of getting a 10 shot mag and buying the rifle from my mate but couldn't match what Cindy was offering to pay.

used 2 of them years ago and had zero issues with either...ammunition choice MIGHT be part of it..wear and tear as you have discovered might be the rest. I do know the stingers were hard on them..slamming bolt back damaged something that needed fixed in my Bros one...that rifle still going strong and must be 45 years old.

Not sure of the Stirling 20, but my dad had a Stirling bolt action I inherited..I retrieved it from under his bed after he had gone a few years without renewing his FAL. He got his when they were a lifetime deal and no one was going to tell him he was dead before he was lol

Anyway, it clearly had not been working for some time with a jammed bolt. I stripped it and the trigger group housing literally fell apart in my hands, rotten pot metal, all crumbly and decayed. It turned out the distributor had the last replacement parts available for the model on the back of a shelf. I fitted them and sold the rifle on for not much $$ than the cost of the part on the basis that probably it had another couple of decades before the same thing happened. It also had two sought-after mags so a good deal for buyer. The sad thing was the barrel was a real tack driver and nothing at all wrong with the stocking of the rifle. Just this cheap arsed pot metal under the covers. Memo to self - never buy a Stirling. Perhaps they have changed now and perhaps there are other brands with the same materials. But its the same old story I guess..you pay for what you get and get what you pay for, except when you don't. And in the Stirling of my old man's era, you didn't.

Same virtually as the Norinco JW14 and JW14a if I recall. It would sound to me that you have an issue with your trigger group - that is a different world of hurt pulling that particular trigger assembly apart. The manufacturing quality of the internals in that assembly can be a little variable, and it sounds like you might have a dragging burr or something on the internals that are making it difficult for things to reset when they should.

Most of the reliability problems with the Stirling M20's is in the trigger mechanism. The relationship between the trigger trip pawl, the trigger stop pin, and sear is critical. The parts do wear with use and need regular checking. Once correctly set-up they are quite reliable and surprisingly accurate.

The model 20 I have listed for sale cycles flawlessly, tried a bunch of difference std velocity types and didn't have a single feed issue

Mine cycled pretty reliably, but started slam firing. And I'm not talking letting the bolt slam forward with a round in the chamber and no magazine to slow the bolt down, I'm talking stick a full mag in with a closed bolt, pull the bolt back and let it go and it's chamber and fire instantly. Glad to be rid of it.

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Originally Posted by No.3

Same virtually as the Norinco JW14 and JW14a if I recall. It would sound to me that you have an issue with your trigger group - that is a different world of hurt pulling that particular trigger assembly apart. The manufacturing quality of the internals in that assembly can be a little variable, and it sounds like you might have a dragging burr or something on the internals that are making it difficult for things to reset when they should.

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Indeed I've learnt how to disassemble and reassemble the model 20 completely. Still can't figure out why it will work when cycled slowly but not under normal use.

It might simply be moving too quick to allow everything to disconnect/reset?

How have you cleaned it ? You may need to biff the trigger group into an ultrasonic cleaner to deep clean the 50 years of crud out of there

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Originally Posted by winchesterM69A

How have you cleaned it ? You may need to biff the trigger group into an ultrasonic cleaner to deep clean the 50 years of crud out of there

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I stripped everything down to its individual parts and soaked in a container of degreaser, then scrubbed with small brushes and finished off with compressed air. I'm confident all nooks and crannys are free of crud. But I'm wondering if I've removed some of the crud necessary to make it work! :D

The only thing I'm not sure about is the amount of lubrication necessary and where it most needs it. Aside from the obvious places of metal on metal, finnicky lubrication might be a potential problematic area.

HI BW, if not too late to reply, when stripping trigger action did you check the spring in the front of trigger (the one the holds the sear lever) these can build up and/or weaken. very hard to get this apart as the trigger is muck metal and the small pin is just a cut wire normally. The trigger will break if you punching them out. i use brake cleaner under pressure to clean these type of bits.

PS i have boxes of stirling parts and always buying/selling 22's. Currently in the process of 3D printing these triggers/assemblies. (as lots of people have broken them when disassembling) hopefully have them for sale prior Xmas....

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Originally Posted by -BW-

Indeed I've learnt how to disassemble and reassemble the model 20 completely. Still can't figure out why it will work when cycled slowly but not under normal use.

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Worst case scenario you could hook your thumb behind the charging handle when firing, and use it as a straight pull bolt-action!

Re lubrication, one of mine I purchased second hand some 43 years ago and the guy I got it off told me not to use oil on the bolt, just scrub it out with petrol when it needs a clean. He seemed to know what he was talking about, and it's never given me trouble. Very accurate too.
Although this one is an earlier production and doesn't have the muck metal trigger assembly. She's steel.
My other one is the muck metal version but haven't used it enough to encounter any issues.

washing parts in kerosine works too - the kero gets rid of the grease and gunk but leaves a slightly oily residue that acts as a lubricant without being overdone.

same with 2stroke mix. I use atf on bolts for lube

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Originally Posted by blip

same with 2stroke mix. I use atf on bolts for lube

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Somebody on this forum pointed out ATF is water soluble so if you hunt in the rain…

My last resort was to take it a gunsmith who had some spare bits. He replaced the trigger mechanism and viola.. it’s humming now. So far she cycles a full magazine without stopping. I have reached the pinnacle of Armscor products; a working Stirling m20.

It’s a pity that the new looking 4x32 Nikko scope that I mounted on it has a bung vertical adjustment turret! Oh well can’t have everything.