Exactly how illegal is it to shoot C-Cat guns?

The op asked a question. People answered it. Very simple.

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Originally Posted by Beavis

If you were allowed to blast away with C cats, the price of them would likely quadruple. People with tons of money would be tripping over themselves to get machine guns, and you would end up with a situation like the USA where a transferable M16 lower costs tens of thousands of dollars.

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I don't see the problem with that tbh. As far as I know none of the US's numerous mass shootings have been comitted with select fire guns because it's only middle aged financially successful types who can afford them. We don't have the lack of mental health care the US does so we don't have mass school shootings, and I can't imagine our local gang bangeres would be forking out 30k for a full auto AK when they can have an SKS for $500 or a sawn off shotty for $100.

If we continued down the line of the philosophy we already have with firearms (vetting, licensing, interviews, safe storage, etc) I think we could safely be allowed full autos. Make it a subcategory to E-Cat, once you have E-Cat you can apply for select fire category with an even beefier safe (or maybe the requirement that it's kept at a gun club?) and get a mandatory mental evaluation from a shrink, a couple of interviews with cops, your family thoroughly interviewed and vetted, etc etc.

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Originally Posted by TheWuce

I don't see the problem with that tbh. As far as I know none of the US's numerous mass shootings have been comitted with select fire guns because it's only middle aged financially successful types who can afford them. We don't have the lack of mental health care the US does so we don't have mass school shootings, and I can't imagine our local gang bangeres would be forking out 30k for a full auto AK when they can have an SKS for $500 or a sawn off shotty for $100.

If we continued down the line of the philosophy we already have with firearms (vetting, licensing, interviews, safe storage, etc) I think we could safely be allowed full autos. Make it a subcategory to E-Cat, once you have E-Cat you can apply for select fire category with an even beefier safe (or maybe the requirement that it's kept at a gun club?) and get a mandatory mental evaluation from a shrink, a couple of interviews with cops, your family thoroughly interviewed and vetted, etc etc.

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We're already safely allowed full autos. We just need to get of the irrational condition preventing us from using them.

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Originally Posted by Beavis

If you were allowed to blast away with C cats, the price of them would likely quadruple. People with tons of money would be tripping over themselves to get machine guns, and you would end up with a situation like the USA where a transferable M16 lower costs tens of thousands of dollars.

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Fffuuuccckkk No you cannot shoot them, Beavis has it sorted!!! Money cures everything DONE:thumbsup:

Trip to Vegas be cheaper the first couple of meetings with your lawyers - then you can order like McDonalds at a shooting range - Super Size me a M2 50cal

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Originally Posted by TheWuce

Clean your panties out bud, hypotheticals don't hurt anyone.

Follow up question that is more of a discussion starter than a hypothetical: shooting B-Cat pistols at a home range? I never got this, you have at least six months of experience and training yet it is stilll only "safe" for you to shoot at a pistol club? Why? Why is plinking a few rounds at a home range with your pistol illegal?

Proceed to discuss and shit panties.

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Ranges have to be certifed as safe by pistol nz for it to be legal .

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Originally Posted by Clint Ruin

Ranges have to be certifed as safe by pistol nz for it to be legal .

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Does that mean you can have a range at home?

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Originally Posted by faregame

Does that mean you can have a range at home?

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If you have the 6-10000 bucks for certification and form a club you can I spose.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by Clint Ruin

Ranges have to be certifed as safe by pistol nz for it to be legal .

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I don't think she's asking how it's illegal, but why. The reasoning or logic for these restrictions aren't apparent.

I don't think there is any real reasoning or logic to not allowing C cat people to shoot their pieces. If there was any real worry that somebody with a machine gun might use it to go postal, they wouldn't allow us to own functioning ones. It almost seems pointless being allowed to own a functioning gun, other than the collector value, but never being allowed to discharge it if you wish to and can do so safely.

But then it's much like a lot of bright ideas with firearm restrictions.

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Originally Posted by Banana

I don't think she's asking how it's illegal, but why. The reasoning or logic for these restrictions aren't apparent.

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They are historic, forget any reasoning, they were their in the 70 s when I was pistol shooting, mind you things were easier to get away with back then, but they do defy logic, there are ways it could be totally safe and “controlled”. Of cause prosecution and consequences rule at present, big stick and no carrots! The criminal gets better treatment, with nothing to lose!

As it stands only military or dealers with a special indorsment can fire full auto's full stop, as thems the rules. There are exceptions, have mates in the military take you to one of their ranges!:thumbsup:

The army used to bring their gear to our pistol club and you could have a blast on a fully auto under their instructions, the police used to bring over a heap of .357 ammo and pistol to shoot it out of, to hot for my Dan Wesson. We would also compete in a formal shoot, pistol club 1st then the police followed by the army usually. Good old days!

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Originally Posted by TheWuce

I don't see the problem with that tbh. As far as I know none of the US's numerous mass shootings have been comitted with select fire guns because it's only middle aged financially successful types who can afford them. We don't have the lack of mental health care the US does so we don't have mass school shootings, and I can't imagine our local gang bangeres would be forking out 30k for a full auto AK when they can have an SKS for $500 or a sawn off shotty for $100.

If we continued down the line of the philosophy we already have with firearms (vetting, licensing, interviews, safe storage, etc) I think we could safely be allowed full autos. Make it a subcategory to E-Cat, once you have E-Cat you can apply for select fire category with an even beefier safe (or maybe the requirement that it's kept at a gun club?) and get a mandatory mental evaluation from a shrink, a couple of interviews with cops, your family thoroughly interviewed and vetted, etc etc.

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Yup but even though we have basically no issues with legal mssa's presently, we have senior police association officials that think even the A cat ones are satanic.
along with the greens who follow UN protocols so hate pretty much all firearms and mass shootings in the states poisoning opinion, we have no show of that happening

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Originally Posted by Walker

As it stands only military or dealers with a special indorsment can fire full auto's full stop, as thems the rules. There are exceptions, have mates in the military take you to one of their ranges!:thumbsup:

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yes please but I reckon you are a bit far away for me to take you up on the offer

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Originally Posted by GDMP

Not being allowed to fire them does not really make much sense to me,but if that was a condition of being granted the endorsement then you are obliged to follow it.I suppose C cat stuff pretty much flies under the radar for many especially MG's,and if owners were actually out firing them it would bring all the wowsers out assorted hand-wringers out of the closet putting yet more pressure on legal ownership of such items.Which would not be a good thing.

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The principle of a C cat licence is for Collectors. Like a museum collection etc. If a pistol is on a C Cat then it cannot be fired, but if it is on a B then it can. (I am not saying it is smart,, more that this is the principle behind the categories) I think they would rather not have these out there but for the likes of RSA collections etc, there needs to be something for the memorabilia and historical reference materials.

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Originally Posted by TheWuce

I don't see the problem with that tbh. As far as I know none of the US's numerous mass shootings have been comitted with select fire guns because it's only middle aged financially successful types who can afford them. We don't have the lack of mental health care the US does so we don't have mass school shootings, and I can't imagine our local gang bangeres would be forking out 30k for a full auto AK when they can have an SKS for $500 or a sawn off shotty for $100.

If we continued down the line of the philosophy we already have with firearms (vetting, licensing, interviews, safe storage, etc) I think we could safely be allowed full autos. Make it a subcategory to E-Cat, once you have E-Cat you can apply for select fire category with an even beefier safe (or maybe the requirement that it's kept at a gun club?) and get a mandatory mental evaluation from a shrink, a couple of interviews with cops, your family thoroughly interviewed and vetted, etc etc.

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I doubt very much the Gun clubs will want that target painted on their backs. (Gang member wants a full auto "machine gun- lets rob a gun club, they will have one...)

The way people bitch and moan about semi automatic rifles, they would completely shit the bed if they knew what you could have on a C endorsement

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Originally Posted by Proudkiwi

what a stupid question.

Up there with the idiot that recently asked a similar question about overal length of a firearm.

What has happened to this forum???

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Fuck...you've emerged from under your rock again.

Its purely here for educational and theological reasons, also for jokes.

Apart from the FUN factor there is no point in firing full auto you can't hit shit the barrel wears out super fast you need a Dillion 1050 to keep the ammo supply topped up,
You can put C cat pistols on B cat if it fits the specs, barrel needs to be 100mm so that only stops snub nose pistols being used, Shooting a 2.5" barreled .357 mag is not fun
after the first cylinder full, I know of a couple of dudes that have 460 S&W and 500 S&W pistols on B cat so if you want something stupid to shoot you can get it just not full auto

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Originally Posted by timattalon

The principle of a C cat licence is for Collectors. Like a museum collection etc. If a pistol is on a C Cat then it cannot be fired, but if it is on a B then it can. (I am not saying it is smart,, more that this is the principle behind the categories) I think they would rather not have these out there but for the likes of RSA collections etc, there needs to be something for the memorabilia and historical reference materials.

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This is the most correct answer thus far.
The licence is intended for collectors who have no intention of using the firearms they have, but who are keeping them for there historical or personal value.

If there were demand for people to be allowed to shoot fully automatic firearms there would need to be a new category created, perhaps MSFA.
But as there seems to be little demand from owners of such firearms and the Police current warpath of MSSA and semi auto A-cats, I don't see there being any politicians willing to take it on.

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Originally Posted by Marty Henry

Thats like asking if there are degrees of dead, ie mostly dead, partly dead, doubly dead. Dead is dead. Its also an interesting follow up question after asking for a private place to shoot.

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On the contrary there are degrees of dead. It is possible to revive a person who as drowned and stopped breathing a person who has had their heart stop and Marty if you watch the greatly funny movie 'The Princess Bride' , Wesley is revived after being pronounced 'mostly dead' by the medicine man after being tortured on 'The machine' . Completely dead is being shot with 15 second burst from a German M2 machine gun.

So completely dead is not possible in NZ according to this thread:cool: at my age that’s a very GOOD thing!!

We might live forever? at the rate Im falling apart that doesn't exactly fill me with enthusiasm for a happy and active eternity.

The only way to live forever or a few hundred years is to be buried with a Rimu tree on top of you

I’ll request the Undertaker inserts a few Rimu seeds up my date before the internment :o

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Originally Posted by faregame

Does that mean you can have a range at home?

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at least one form member does

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Originally Posted by res

at least one form member does

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Is it his own range or a "satellite" range, ie a range administered by a nearby club on his land?.

My understanding was that clubs were allowed to have other ranges under their administration/ jurisdiction (properly certified of course).

It’s his own, he built it on his land.
And yes, I’m jealous, but he does have poor taste in beer !

It would depend if you are a sports star or someone rich and being convicted will hurt your career then probably nothing will happen just a normal every day person you'll be screwed theres different laws for different people in this country

there is a pistol range on the Napier Hill in one mans Basement that he had built, fully legit, it is own private range

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Originally Posted by Frogfeatures

It’s his own, he built it on his land.
And yes, I’m jealous, but he does have poor taste in beer !

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Hmm now to convince the wife we need some space

Oh well - no ones perfect

so he drinks Waikato?

A few on here reckon the forum is going to shit because of "stupid" hypothetical questions. It's not going to shit because of that, more like because of political correctness and hyper-sensitivity towards a certain category of firearms.

He really is pathetic.

Political correctness would be arguing the need for pistols, MSSA and C-cat firearms in NZ. Asking how illegal it is to shoot a C-Cat firearm when the law says you can't is stupid, just like how far under the minimum length of a rifle you can go before you get in trouble.

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Originally Posted by stug

Political correctness would be arguing the need for pistols, MSSA and C-cat firearms in NZ. Asking how illegal it is to shoot a C-Cat firearm when the law says you can't is stupid, just like how far under the minimum length of a rifle you can go before you get in trouble.

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If a person wants to ask a question they shouldn't be castigated for their lack of knowledge by others who have more knowledge. If that carries on then the whole forum is fucked.
The answer to the initial question can be addressed as follows:
The applicant wishes to shoot a C cat firearm with knowledge that this activity is illegal under NZ law and wishes to know how rigorously that law will be enforced and breaches punished.
What do the courts say on this matter :
Then quote the case law - which someone else has done here already.

Remember Parliament makes the laws not the Police. The Police enforce those laws but have the power of 'discretion' in minor matters. It is the courts that decide what the punishment is. If the applicant sees from the case law that the punishment is a $100 fine they might consider that it's worth the risk - just the same as when every person on here speeds to get to a hunting spot at 4am.

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Originally Posted by stug

Political correctness would be arguing the need for pistols, MSSA and C-cat firearms in NZ. Asking how illegal it is to shoot a C-Cat firearm when the law says you can't is stupid, just like how far under the minimum length of a rifle you can go before you get in trouble.

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Nope. The question I asked was, what the CONSEQUENCE would be IF the SHOTGUN turned out a few mm short of legal length with a pistol grip fitted. An innocence enough query I thought at the time, as the penalty for various/the same crime, in NZ varies hugely. For most people who are not motivated by politically correctness and hell bent on appearing so, wouldn't give a toss. Get over it, there are bigger problems out there.

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Originally Posted by Marty Henry

We might live forever? at the rate Im falling apart that doesn't exactly fill me with enthusiasm for a happy and active eternity.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Jtp...&start_radio=1
Something to listen to whilst contemplating our mortality Marty....

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Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

If a person wants to ask a question they shouldn't be castigated for their lack of knowledge by others who have more knowledge. If that carries on then the whole forum is fucked.
The answer to the initial question can be addressed as follows:
The applicant wishes to shoot a C cat firearm with knowledge that this activity is illegal under NZ law and wishes to know how rigorously that law will be enforced and breaches punished.
What do the courts say on this matter :
Then quote the case law - which someone else has done here already.

Remember Parliament makes the laws not the Police. The Police enforce those laws but have the power of 'discretion' in minor matters. It is the courts that decide what the punishment is. If the applicant sees from the case law that the punishment is a $100 fine they might consider that it's worth the risk - just the same as when every person on here speeds to get to a hunting spot at 4am.

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Man, I wish I could have explained it as well. Full marks Moa Hunter.