Thread: Field modifying service weapons

I’ve just finished reading a thread about how twigs/branches can throw off a shot, the post touches on how the Aussies often preferred to use the L1A1 over the M16 in Vietnam for the reason that the heavier bullet performed better in the jungle. The L1A1 had a lot of disadvantages compared to the M16 which reminded me about the Aussie SASR modifying their SLRs in theatre.

The SLR was long, heavy and didn’t fire in full-auto. This was obviously an issue for the SASR as they operated covertly in dense jungle for long periods of time and regularly got into heavy engagements, so many picked up the M16. The alternate option was to modify the SLR, which many did as they preferred the .762 cartridge. A common modification was dubbed “The bitch” and consisted of shortening the barrel and gas system, removing the flash hider and front wood, adding an underslung grenade launcher and new sights, modifying the sear in order to fire full auto and using the larger 30rd mags from the L2A1 LMG.




This ugly contraption was shorter, lighter and could throw devastating .762 full auto fire, meaning it was a much more effective weapon in close range engagements. It was also said to add ‘shock factor’ to the enemy, who would have been somewhat used to being engaged by M16s. The short barrel and no flash hider, coupled with the larger cartridge and full-auto fire created an enormous racket which could initially stun the enemy and lead them to believe they were being engaged by a much larger force.

People may argue that the accuracy of the weapon was reduced my undertaking these modifications, and they are most probably correct. The reality is an SAS trooper isn’t going to be worried about his rifle being accurate out to long distances if he is only engaging the enemy at 10-30 meters (as was most common).

Many people (myself included) scowl at folks modifying old service weapons at home and removing their historical significance and accuracy. In the field, such modifications would have been close to a necessity and I can imagine the “it ain’t stupid if it works” attitude was taken in many special operations units. Such firearms are now extremely revered in collectors circles and have even more historical significance.

My question to you is what are some other notable examples of troops modifying their service weapons in theatre? How far back does this go? I’m particularly interested in New Zealand examples.

Hamish

Interesting timing for me with this post,I have had a rough couple of weeks & have just got back from taking time out in the hills hunting to gather my thoughts & just get away from shit.

While l was guiding in the US l worked a number of years for one of the original members of The Phoenix Program with Military Assistance Command, Vietnam – Studies and Observations Group (MACV-SOG) “SPIKE TEAMS" that operated “Over the Fence” ,a really just outstanding bloke & through him l became close friends with a number of MACV-SOG & guys who were among the first ever SEALs from the UDT group & who were the first ever SEALs to go into combat (SEAL Team 2 the infamous "The Men With Green Faces") .

One of these original SEALs became a close friend & mentor, Captain Ronald Everest Yeaw, who was a huge support during the time my wife battled Cancer.Unfortunately he passed a few days ago after his own long battle & with the Chyna Flu, Cluster-Fuck , l will not be able to be with his family or most likely the planned ceremony being held by the UDT/SEAL Assoc in his honor, later in the year.

This great Man & Warrior Captain Ron was a weapons expert who many SEALs accredit as the man who forged the reputation of the Stoner 63 LMG,as he used it with deadly efficiency from the first days the SEALs actually used them in combat.

The Stoner 63 which was his favorite weapon he used at any stage of his 30 years at the pointy end of the spear,was quickly found to need modifications to suit the extreme conditions the SEAL Team 2, 7th Platoon, Capt Ron led & faced in the Rung Sat Special Zone Mangrove Swamps.Stoner invited Capt Ron to work directly with the Stoner team & Capt Ron spent a lot of time back Stateside before & between tours working on various weapons systems at the Special Forces Weapons Testing Centers,where he also worked with Colt on the CAR-15,its "Flash hider"& very importantly for the SEALs the larger 30 round magazine reliability & the interim fix of dual magazines clipped together .

Modifications on the Stoner 63 included various grips front & rear,enlarging gas ports ,Stock design,Sling fastening options & Ammunition feed & magazines as Capt Ron was a great believer in having a balanced weapon with proper weight distribution as a lot of their CQB in the thick swamp was off hand & kills at 100 yards were long shots,most were not much more than 10 yards.

Capt Ron was a weapons aficionado & while they were being ferried back to base by the Brown Water Navy, after long days of combat,the other SEALs would be enjoying a cold beer ,Capt Ron would use up any unused ammo trying various modifications he would have stashed in the pick up boats ,while using filthy & carbon coked/leaded weapons from long use in combat to prove or expose reliability issues with the mods.Capt Ron was continually looking at ways of having weapons & Kit modified for multi/efficient use ,including his infamous huge Bandanna ,that was big enough to be used as a tourniquet,tie prisoners snatched in the fields Hands/ arms,gag them,use as a sling etc .

Capt Ron also was part of the group who worked on the mods to the M60 7.62mm Machine Guns carried by the SeaWolves helicopter crews the SEALs would use for in land operations .The door gunners hated the fixed pintle mounts & so in country on the floating Airport/landing bases they designed the weird looking long stocks that you tucked under your are arm & many fired while holding the M60 on its side,giving them a much wider ark of fire & enabling them to step on to the skid to give covering fire while doing Dust Offs & pick ups while under fire .Capt Ron wanted a M60 or SEAL use that could be carried much easier & suited to firing from the hip where a lot of the Ambushes /engagements were fought at extreme close range .

The modified Stoner 63 LMG worked much as the SLR "Bitch" did but with more fire power ie extreme muzzle blast & flash combined with the added advantage of a 150 round Drum Magazine that centered the balance of the LMG making it very easy to fire even one handed ,A fact that saved many wounded operators .

Capt Ron was part of what is still seen one of the greatest battles the SEALs have ever fought,on a operation to save 1 confirmed & 3 possible US POW's as well as local elders,unbeknownst to the SEAls in between them getting the intel from a spy high up in the local NVC,2 other local NVC forces joined where the POW's were being held to hold a sort of auction for the prized captures.

The "POW HUNT " fire fight is known as one of the greatest SEAL battles of all time .14 SEALS surrounded by around 650 North Vietcong. NVC guys should have brought more men. Estimated 135 NVC killed, and 0 SEALs died.They accredited the noise & fire power the Stoner 63's gave,with them using Shoot & Scoot tactics ,to helping confuse the NVC battalion they had dropped into.The helicopter crews that flew in for BDA & local forces on the ground reported the Stoner 63 positions were surrounded by half circles of NVC bodies piled on top of each other.North Vietcong leadership in the years after confirmed there was actually 800 fighters at the POW camp & only 50 were tasked with removing the POW's once the fire fight began so in reality they faced 750 NVC ,but using the Stoners & Shoot & Scoot tactics the Seals actually had the NVC shooting at each other.The Stoner op's had the NVC targeting the glowing barrels in the dark, they were throwing out that much lead

These guys had weapons collections worth big bucks, that would fill standard kiwi home lounge rooms from floor to ceiling & l was very lucky to get to shoot a lot of them when invited to stay with them .IMO The Stoner 63 is one of the easiest to control as its recoil pulse/rate of fire combined with balance makes it very controllable & accurate.

Well this went on longer than planned if you want any other info let me know.

Here is some info on Capt Ron, IMO he is the greatest unknown Warrior in recent American military history who among other things ,was among first SEALs to ever enter & fight in Combat,among first ever to deploy on a mission from a Nuclear Submarine ,completed one of the deepest dive deployments for concealment ever from a Submarines torpedo tubes,while actively being hunted & just a little thing of developing the rig & tactics & for parachuting while having a Nuclear Bomb strapped to them .

Largely unheard of by the public because he was Old School from a Era when Loose Lips ,Sink Ships meant something not serving as a means to get a book/movie deal & l met a few of them celebry-seals as well .Capt Ron was one hell of a intelligent & caring man .

Here is a brief run down on his "official on the books "service record -


https://imgur.com/lYvzw7p

Captain Ronald Everest Yeaw, -




30 distinguished years of military service in the US Navy included, but certainly were not limited to; U.S. Navy Captain in Naval Special Warfare Operations where he served in a variety of high level Navy and joint service operational, command, and staff positions. He was an Underwater Demolition Team Frogman (UDT) and Navy SEAL, participating in 3 SEAL combat tours to the Republic of Vietnam with SEAL Team 2, “The Men with Green Faces”, where he earned 9 medals with a combat V indicating valor in combat including 4 bronze stars, the Republic of Vietnam Cross of Gallantry, 7 Campaign Medals, and the Purple Heart. He also served as the Commanding Officer of both Underwater Demolition Team 21 and SEAL Team 6. During his illustrious career he was awarded a total of 45 individual medals and ribbons including the Superior Service Medal, the Navy Legion of Merit, and 5 Defense and Navy Meritorious Service Medals.

interesting, tell us more

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"Fair Winds and Following Seas" - Capt Ron you Glorious Bastard

Originally Posted by bunji

Interesting timing for me with this post,I have had a rough couple of weeks & have just got back from taking time out in the hills hunting to gather my thoughts & just get away from shit.

While l was guiding in the US l worked a number of years for one of the original members of The Phoenix Program with Military Assistance Command, Vietnam – Studies and Observations Group (MACV-SOG) “SPIKE TEAMS" that operated “Over the Fence” ,a really just outstanding bloke & through him l became close friends with a number of MACV-SOG & guys who were among the first ever SEALs from the UDT group & who were the first ever SEALs to go into combat (SEAL Team 2 the infamous "The Men With Green Faces") .

One of these original SEALs became a close friend & mentor, Captain Ronald Everest Yeaw, who was a huge support during the time my wife battled Cancer.Unfortunately he passed a few days ago after his own long battle & with the Chyna Flu, Cluster-Fuck , l will not be able to be with his family or most likely the planned ceremony being held by the UDT/SEAL Assoc in his honor, later in the year.

This great Man & Warrior Captain Ron was a weapons expert who many SEALs accredit as the man who forged the reputation of the Stoner 63 LMG,as he used it with deadly efficiency from the first days the SEALs actually used them in combat.

The Stoner 63 which was his favorite weapon he used at any stage of his 30 years at the pointy end of the spear,was quickly found to need modifications to suit the extreme conditions the SEAL Team 2, 7th Platoon, Capt Ron led & faced in the Rung Sat Special Zone Mangrove Swamps.Stoner invited Capt Ron to work directly with the Stoner team & Capt Ron spent a lot of time back Stateside before & between tours working on various weapons systems at the Special Forces Weapons Testing Centers,where he also worked with Colt on the CAR-15,its "Flash hider"& very importantly for the SEALs the larger 30 round magazine reliability & the interim fix of dual magazines clipped together .

Modifications on the Stoner 63 included various grips front & rear,enlarging gas ports ,Stock design,Sling fastening options & Ammunition feed & magazines as Capt Ron was a great believer in having a balanced weapon with proper weight distribution as a lot of their CQB in the thick swamp was off hand & kills at 100 yards were long shots,most were not much more than 10 yards.

Capt Ron was a weapons aficionado & while they were being ferried back to base by the Brown Water Navy, after long days of combat,the other SEALs would be enjoying a cold beer ,Capt Ron would use up any unused ammo trying various modifications he would have stashed in the pick up boats ,while using filthy & carbon coked/leaded weapons from long use in combat to prove or expose reliability issues with the mods.Capt Ron was continually looking at ways of having weapons & Kit modified for multi/efficient use ,including his infamous huge Bandanna ,that was big enough to be used as a tourniquet,tie prisoners snatched in the fields Hands/ arms,gag them,use as a sling etc .

Capt Ron also was part of the group who worked on the mods to the M60 7.62mm Machine Guns carried by the SeaWolves helicopter crews the SEALs would use for in land operations .The door gunners hated the fixed pintle mounts & so in country on the floating Airport/landing bases they designed the weird looking long stocks that you tucked under your are arm & many fired while holding the M60 on its side,giving them a much wider ark of fire & enabling them to step on to the skid to give covering fire while doing Dust Offs & pick ups while under fire .Capt Ron wanted a M60 or SEAL use that could be carried much easier & suited to firing from the hip where a lot of the Ambushes /engagements were fought at extreme close range .

The modified Stoner 63 LMG worked much as the SLR "Bitch" did but with more fire power ie extreme muzzle blast & flash combined with the added advantage of a 150 round Drum Magazine that centered the balance of the LMG making it very easy to fire even one handed ,A fact that saved many wounded operators .

Capt Ron was part of what is still seen one of the greatest battles the SEALs have ever fought,on a operation to save 1 confirmed & 3 possible US POW's as well as local elders,unbeknownst to the SEAls in between them getting the intel from a spy high up in the local NVC,2 other local NVC forces joined where the POW's were being held to hold a sort of auction for the prized captures.

The "POW HUNT " fire fight is known as one of the greatest SEAL battles of all time .14 SEALS surrounded by around 650 North Vietcong. NVC guys should have brought more men. Estimated 135 NVC killed, and 0 SEALs died.They accredited the noise & fire power the Stoner 63's gave,with them using Shoot & Scoot tactics ,to helping confuse the NVC battalion they had dropped into.The helicopter crews that flew in for BDA & local forces on the ground reported the Stoner 63 positions were surrounded by half circles of NVC bodies piled on top of each other.North Vietcong leadership in the years after confirmed there was actually 800 fighters at the POW camp & only 50 were tasked with removing the POW's once the fire fight began so in reality they faced 750 NVC ,but using the Stoners & Shoot & Scoot tactics the Seals actually had the NVC shooting at each other.The Stoner op's had the NVC targeting the glowing barrels in the dark, they were throwing out that much lead

These guys had weapons collections worth big bucks, that would fill standard kiwi home lounge rooms from floor to ceiling & l was very lucky to get to shoot a lot of them when invited to stay with them .IMO The Stoner 63 is one of the easiest to control as its recoil pulse/rate of fire combined with balance makes it very controllable & accurate.

Well this went on longer than planned if you want any other info let me know.

Here is some info on Capt Ron, IMO he is the greatest unknown Warrior in recent American military history who among other things ,was among first SEALs to ever enter & fight in Combat,among first ever to deploy on a mission from a Nuclear Submarine ,completed one of the deepest dive deployments for concealment ever from a Submarines torpedo tubes,while actively being hunted & just a little thing of developing the rig & tactics & for parachuting while having a Nuclear Bomb strapped to them .

Largely unheard of by the public because he was Old School from a Era when Loose Lips ,Sink Ships meant something not serving as a means to get a book/movie deal & l met a few of them celebry-seals as well .Capt Ron was one hell of a intelligent & caring man .

Here is a brief run down on his "official on the books "service record -


https://imgur.com/lYvzw7p

Captain Ronald Everest Yeaw, -




30 distinguished years of military service in the US Navy included, but certainly were not limited to; U.S. Navy Captain in Naval Special Warfare Operations where he served in a variety of high level Navy and joint service operational, command, and staff positions. He was an Underwater Demolition Team Frogman (UDT) and Navy SEAL, participating in 3 SEAL combat tours to the Republic of Vietnam with SEAL Team 2, “The Men with Green Faces”, where he earned 9 medals with a combat V indicating valor in combat including 4 bronze stars, the Republic of Vietnam Cross of Gallantry, 7 Campaign Medals, and the Purple Heart. He also served as the Commanding Officer of both Underwater Demolition Team 21 and SEAL Team 6. During his illustrious career he was awarded a total of 45 individual medals and ribbons including the Superior Service Medal, the Navy Legion of Merit, and 5 Defense and Navy Meritorious Service Medals.

What an amazing story, thank you for sharing. I’m somewhat familiar with the stories of SOG and some of the incredible individuals involved, I’d love to do some more reading on the role SEALs played during the conflict, are there any books you can recommend?

That’s super interesting about the Stoner 63 and it’s wartime development, I don’t know a hell of a lot about the weapon so I’ll do some more research. At the end of the day combat is the most effective test of any weapon so it’s cool to hear about those modifications and how the manufacturer worked with CPT Yeaw to improve the design.

I’m sad to hear about the passing of CPT Ron Yeaw, he sounds like an incredible man and leader, the way you speak of him must be a true testament to his character. Loosing a friend is hard, particularly a man of such caliber. I too, as many on here, find solace in the hills and I hope they help you as much as they have helped me in the past.

Hamish

Thanks for taking the time to write this stuff guys, a welcome opportunity to learn.

Heres a bit from "On Patrol with the SAS, Sleeping with your ears open." by GARY McKAY. About SAS operations in Vietnam


THE AUTOMATIC ‘LIGHT-BARRELLED’ SLR.

The SAS pride themselves on their individuality and this was often expressed in the way they dressed for combat, their weaponry and ammunition load. It all came down to—if you want to carry it, it is your problem. The 7.62 mm Belgian-designed FN semi-automatic (self-loading rifle—SLR) was often favoured because it fired a very powerful .308 calibre bullet. The standard issue rifle was carried by most riflemen in Viet Nam in the infantry battalions but didn’t fire fully automatic—that is, when you pull the trigger the weapon fires until you release the trigger. Normally it would fire only one shot every time you pressed the trigger but would automatically chamber another round so when you released the trigger and pressed again it would repeat the firing cycle. However, soldiers—as is their wont in combat zones—take extraordinary steps to try to give themselves greater firepower on the field of battle.

One SAS patrol scout on his first tour explained how he dealt with his weaponry and ammunition load: I carried a ‘light-barrelled SLR’, but it was fully automatic. The SLR was actually designed with a holding open device so that on the last shot of the magazine it held open and so you could carry out an immediate action drill really easy, but that’s no good for a parade ground, you can’t have people messing around on the parade ground like this. So, the hierarchy of the Australian army said remove the pin. Our armourers put a pin where it was supposed to be in the hold-open device so when the magazine was empty the working parts were held to the rear— just like an M16. So we would take the empty mag off, put it down your shirt, put on a full mag, release the working parts by hitting the holding open device, bang! Away you went again. So, that was a very easy operation to change the SLR to fully auto—it was just inserting a filed change lever and jigging around with the return spring plunger on the trigger. I had a Claymore pouch with the 30-round magazines in them. It was quite a good set-up. When you look back it was cumbersome to be a scout with that weapon, but it was all right. It was good in a shitfight.

The ‘light-barrelled SLR’ is an in-joke for the soldiers, as there was a heavy-barrelled SLR which went by the nomenclature of the L4A4 automatic rifle which was an SLR with a fully automatic firing mechanism and a heavier barrel to withstand the higher operating temperatures. It also came with folding bipod legs and could be used as a light machine-gun using 30-round box magazines. Another man who liked the hitting power of the SLR was Peter Schuman: ‘I had seen a guy hit with an SLR through a rubber tree and I thought that was pretty impressive—so I liked that.’

The expression that ‘bullshit baffles brains’ is very true in the SAS notion of throwing as much lead at the enemy to get him to keep his head down while the patrol took off. The other thing that also helped was the reports from the weapons. The 7.62 mm SLR, or a .308 calibre rifle, was a noisy beast which didn’t go bang, it went boom! It was often referred to as ‘the elephant gun’ by the Diggers and it was by far the noisiest rifle and probably the hardest-hitting weapon in the war that was not a machine-gun. But when you get these beasts firing on automatic and in unison, the noise level was dramatic: The sound of an SAS contact is just awesome. There is no, ‘Bang’—I wonder what that was?—‘Bang’—a few more shots. Whatever is happening? If we got away the first rounds, it would be automatic and it would be a full magazine, maybe if there were unders and overs— we would have grenades going off, and rapidly joined in by the other patrol members. So it would rapidly escalate into a huge amount of fire by five people putting down automatic fire and grenades and so on. So we could recognise when one of our own patrols had a contact, and knew it was an SAS patrol. It could not be anybody else.

The patrol members all used 30-round magazines wherever they could as it gave a longer burst of fire, lengthened the time between magazine changes and allowed more ammunition to be carried loaded. Nev Farley ran through his patrol’s SOP on the initial burst of fire: We used 30-round magazines, and most of the blokes carried a 30-round magazine on their weapon. Because the idea was that when you had a contact, you deliberately fired as much ammunition as you could, and if you had those bloody SLRs on fully automatic, firing a 30-round magazine, and if the flash eliminator was taken off it, you would think, ‘Fuck! What have I hit here?’ Because it sounded heavy, and fast, and automatic, and it would just make old Charlie think, ‘Shit, I’ve hit something big here’ and it would stop them, rather than race in and try to take you out. Because they think they have hit so much firepower, it’s at least a bloody company, and by that time we’ve got ourselves on a back bearing and fucked off out of there. But, once that first magazine was gone, from then on that was our rules, you fired well-aimed, single shots. But it was quite okay to fire a full mag for the first part of it in the initial contact. It’s pretty bloody scary when five blokes all open up at once. There’s a lot of noise and if you’ve got three SLRs on fully automatic with a 30-round magazine, shit flies everywhere.

The SAS patrol SLRs were converted to automatic by the squadron armourer, who also removed the flash eliminator to shorten the weapon’s length thereby making it easier to move through the vines and branches of the thick rainforest: The back sight was set so that it couldn’t be lowered, so it was up at all times.
The armourer fixed it up and put it on fully automatic for us, and with the flash eliminator taken off, took off the bayonet boss and all that shit. They were pretty nasty weapons. It creates a long flame. You could shoot and cauterise the wound at fifteen paces!

Originally Posted by Sh00ter

Heres a bit from "On Patrol with the SAS, Sleeping with your ears open." by GARY McKAY. About SAS operations in Vietnam


THE AUTOMATIC ‘LIGHT-BARRELLED’ SLR.

The SAS pride themselves on their individuality and this was often expressed in the way they dressed for combat, their weaponry and ammunition load. It all came down to—if you want to carry it, it is your problem. The 7.62 mm Belgian-designed FN semi-automatic (self-loading rifle—SLR) was often favoured because it fired a very powerful .308 calibre bullet. The standard issue rifle was carried by most riflemen in Viet Nam in the infantry battalions but didn’t fire fully automatic—that is, when you pull the trigger the weapon fires until you release the trigger. Normally it would fire only one shot every time you pressed the trigger but would automatically chamber another round so when you released the trigger and pressed again it would repeat the firing cycle. However, soldiers—as is their wont in combat zones—take extraordinary steps to try to give themselves greater firepower on the field of battle.

One SAS patrol scout on his first tour explained how he dealt with his weaponry and ammunition load: I carried a ‘light-barrelled SLR’, but it was fully automatic. The SLR was actually designed with a holding open device so that on the last shot of the magazine it held open and so you could carry out an immediate action drill really easy, but that’s no good for a parade ground, you can’t have people messing around on the parade ground like this. So, the hierarchy of the Australian army said remove the pin. Our armourers put a pin where it was supposed to be in the hold-open device so when the magazine was empty the working parts were held to the rear— just like an M16. So we would take the empty mag off, put it down your shirt, put on a full mag, release the working parts by hitting the holding open device, bang! Away you went again. So, that was a very easy operation to change the SLR to fully auto—it was just inserting a filed change lever and jigging around with the return spring plunger on the trigger. I had a Claymore pouch with the 30-round magazines in them. It was quite a good set-up. When you look back it was cumbersome to be a scout with that weapon, but it was all right. It was good in a shitfight.

The ‘light-barrelled SLR’ is an in-joke for the soldiers, as there was a heavy-barrelled SLR which went by the nomenclature of the L4A4 automatic rifle which was an SLR with a fully automatic firing mechanism and a heavier barrel to withstand the higher operating temperatures. It also came with folding bipod legs and could be used as a light machine-gun using 30-round box magazines. Another man who liked the hitting power of the SLR was Peter Schuman: ‘I had seen a guy hit with an SLR through a rubber tree and I thought that was pretty impressive—so I liked that.’

The expression that ‘bullshit baffles brains’ is very true in the SAS notion of throwing as much lead at the enemy to get him to keep his head down while the patrol took off. The other thing that also helped was the reports from the weapons. The 7.62 mm SLR, or a .308 calibre rifle, was a noisy beast which didn’t go bang, it went boom! It was often referred to as ‘the elephant gun’ by the Diggers and it was by far the noisiest rifle and probably the hardest-hitting weapon in the war that was not a machine-gun. But when you get these beasts firing on automatic and in unison, the noise level was dramatic: The sound of an SAS contact is just awesome. There is no, ‘Bang’—I wonder what that was?—‘Bang’—a few more shots. Whatever is happening? If we got away the first rounds, it would be automatic and it would be a full magazine, maybe if there were unders and overs— we would have grenades going off, and rapidly joined in by the other patrol members. So it would rapidly escalate into a huge amount of fire by five people putting down automatic fire and grenades and so on. So we could recognise when one of our own patrols had a contact, and knew it was an SAS patrol. It could not be anybody else.

The patrol members all used 30-round magazines wherever they could as it gave a longer burst of fire, lengthened the time between magazine changes and allowed more ammunition to be carried loaded. Nev Farley ran through his patrol’s SOP on the initial burst of fire: We used 30-round magazines, and most of the blokes carried a 30-round magazine on their weapon. Because the idea was that when you had a contact, you deliberately fired as much ammunition as you could, and if you had those bloody SLRs on fully automatic, firing a 30-round magazine, and if the flash eliminator was taken off it, you would think, ‘Fuck! What have I hit here?’ Because it sounded heavy, and fast, and automatic, and it would just make old Charlie think, ‘Shit, I’ve hit something big here’ and it would stop them, rather than race in and try to take you out. Because they think they have hit so much firepower, it’s at least a bloody company, and by that time we’ve got ourselves on a back bearing and fucked off out of there. But, once that first magazine was gone, from then on that was our rules, you fired well-aimed, single shots. But it was quite okay to fire a full mag for the first part of it in the initial contact. It’s pretty bloody scary when five blokes all open up at once. There’s a lot of noise and if you’ve got three SLRs on fully automatic with a 30-round magazine, shit flies everywhere.

The SAS patrol SLRs were converted to automatic by the squadron armourer, who also removed the flash eliminator to shorten the weapon’s length thereby making it easier to move through the vines and branches of the thick rainforest: The back sight was set so that it couldn’t be lowered, so it was up at all times.
The armourer fixed it up and put it on fully automatic for us, and with the flash eliminator taken off, took off the bayonet boss and all that shit. They were pretty nasty weapons. It creates a long flame. You could shoot and cauterise the wound at fifteen paces!

Attachment 172127

Thank you mate, that’s good reading and better coming from someone who used it!
Cheers

"What an amazing story, thank you for sharing. I’m somewhat familiar with the stories of SOG and some of the incredible individuals involved, I’d love to do some more reading on the role SEALs played during the conflict, are there any books you can recommend?"



@hamish9701 I actually have not read many, as l have it locked in as a project of collecting & reading up on the Teams blokes l met & became friends with & have a library & photo display of those good times in a corner of the Man Cave l have marked out to build up on a hill behind the farm house, once l retire as well .

Capt Ron is mentioned in a couple of books but usually with ID kept incognito,during his time fighting in Vietnam he was lucky not to be killed during a assault on a position ,when what the SEALs on the ground believe was a Russian satchel charge but was officially listed as a large grenade,exploded basically right next to him, but with a pile of rubbish in between ,which in the words of the guys who seen him being treated made him look like a pin cushion & they were sure he would die, as up until then they had never seen anybody with that many badly bleeding wounds live. While he was recovering he was tasked with testing, improving & involved in internal security in Special Forces (there was a high level breach by the Russians that was covered up )years before the official formation of the infamous "RED CELL" ,the SEAL team tasked with testing/Breaching security at various top secret /High Security Military & Civilian facilities.

If you keep in mind he was Commanding officer of UDT 21 & SEAL Team 6 & a Platoon Commander of SEAL Team 2 during the "Men with Green Faces "Vietnam War era,then you realize who is being talked about ,he was also the guy who was portrayed as the SEAL Team 6 COM for that Charlie Sheen movie SEALs & apparently the Director spent a couple of days with him on the phone pleading with him, after Capt Ron demanded a couple of scenes were cut about his Submarine mission exploits,he still used to chuckle about that as the Hollyweird types could not believe he would not agree to be portrayed as the all American Hero .

The books l can recommend are the ones the actual SEALs who were there told me to read as they were accurate ,so Dick Marinko's book Rogue Warrior,Dick was the other SEAL Platoon Commander in those first years in Nam ,he is a great bloke but a nutter ,me & him got on like a house on fire because he was very much like my favorite Uncle who was a Korean War Vet & went on to be a leader of a well known World Wide motorcycle gang in Australia & while never a member l have ridden bikes since l could sit on one & partied with the best of them.So Dick comes across as a wild man, but if you just give as good back & refused to be intimidated , he was cool & he loved his bikes as well so we had a lot in common, he is extremely loyal & he has a heart of gold .

In his book Rogue Warrior, Dick was Platoon Commander of ST6(SEAL Team 6) & because Capt Ron was made Commanding Officer of ST6 & was brought in to clean up ST6, as they were cowboys under Dicks "leadership",in Dicks book Rogue Warrior, Dick disguised Capt Ron Yeaw identity as Don Pitch, in Old School Navy tradition (get it ron -don & Pitch, Roll and YAW of boats) & called him "ass kissing intel weenie." for getting the new rules laid down on how SEAL Team 6 would operate & its direction & purpose from then on,but in reality Capt Ron was told if he did not bring them to heel, ST6 would be disbanded (imagine how that might have changed history ) .

Another book recommended by the SEAls & a really great bloke & friend was Harry Constance who wrote what l think is the best SEAL book of all Good To Go .Capt Ron ST2 platoon commander at the time Harry Constance's wrote about in his "Good To Go." book,that includes a chapter on the big firefight they were in while hunting for the POW's & when Capt Ron was badly wounded when a satchel charge/grenade basically landed on him. Harry called him a pin cushion after seeing his wounds & it stuck with Capt Ron from then on.Other books the SEALs recommended are Brave Men Dark Waters and Never Fight Fair,they were very disappointed about how much Garbage has been printed over the years .

Capt Ron wrote of his time in Vietnam incognito for a couple of the original SEALs who put out books, including the foreword in "Good To Go." & hated doing it ,that is why the family had so much trouble in dragging info out of him. Harry Constance was renowned for calling a Spade a Spade & his book ruffled a lot of feathers in the SEALs & SF community for calling out team guys who he felt did not perform under combat,he always spoke highly of Capt Ron when he was out of ear reach ,which wasn't far for Capt Ron as what getting blown up didn't destroy of his hearing,deploying out of torpedo tubes at maximum depth did .


I should also point out so there is no confusion ,although Capt Ron & Dick Marcinko clashed when Captain Yeaw took over SEAL Team 6 ,they remained life long friends right to the end & Dick Marcinko being the wildman he is, always spent time with the Yeaw family when his running amuck was catching up with him Stateside.

To show you what sort of guys they are back in 2014-15 my wife & l were ticking off a Bucket list item of Sailing around the South Pacific.we did it in a old yacht l brought cheap after the financial melt down in Singapore & restored it while it sat at anchor in Singapore harbor,l get a phone call out of the blue asking did l want to join a couple of the Nam era SEALs Captain "Pete" Peterson & Captain Rick Woolard with a group of others & might need a hand for a few days,so l grabbed a cheap flight & ended up being part of this .Although thankfully l am only briefly shown in the background a couple of times,carried my ratty old stoney creek pack. loaded up with cartons of cigarettes with packet wrappers like they had in the 60-70's ,to be dispensed at will to authorities blocking our access & gifts ,l became known as Smoko to the locals much to the others amusement .

if you have not seen this documentary l highly recommend it ,this also shows what great people these guys are,who even after having seen & done unimaginable horrors they are great men with hearts of gold .Have you ever seen or heard about the documentary" A Bond Unbroken- The Why Of Minh- "about the Vietnam War era SEALs & Brown Water Navy guys on a mission to find their Vietnamese combat interpreter,who was lost during the confusion of the evacuation & never heard of for decades after the Vietnam war had ended ?

-A write up on it -


"A reunion 40 years in the making. After decades of wondering what became of their combat interpreter, a group of U.S. Navy SEALs attempts to find Nguyen Hoang Minh, left behind in the aftermath of the Vietnam War. When they discover him living in abject poverty, the bond they forged during the conflict is so strong that the entire SEAL community takes up funds to ensure that Minh has financial security for the rest of his life. The film documents the circumstances that created that bond, the reunion, and the impact on the Vietnamese-American community"


Capt Ron & a lot of the guys l have been talking about are in this as well & it has some really good home movie style combat footage of SEALs ,Brown Water Navy & Seawolves -Worth watching if you have not & some great Home movie Combat footage -

" A Bond Unbroken- The Why Of Minh- "


https://vimeo.com/185166669

Originally Posted by bunji

"What an amazing story, thank you for sharing. I’m somewhat familiar with the stories of SOG and some of the incredible individuals involved, I’d love to do some more reading on the role SEALs played during the conflict, are there any books you can recommend?"



@hamish9701 I actually have not read many, as l have it locked in as a project of collecting & reading up on the Teams blokes l met & became friends with & have a library & photo display of those good times in a corner of the Man Cave l have marked out to build up on a hill behind the farm house, once l retire as well .

Capt Ron is mentioned in a couple of books but usually with ID kept incognito,during his time fighting in Vietnam he was lucky not to be killed during a assault on a position ,when what the SEALs on the ground believe was a Russian satchel charge but was officially listed as a large grenade,exploded basically right next to him, but with a pile of rubbish in between ,which in the words of the guys who seen him being treated made him look like a pin cushion & they were sure he would die, as up until then they had never seen anybody with that many badly bleeding wounds live. While he was recovering he was tasked with testing, improving & involved in internal security in Special Forces (there was a high level breach by the Russians that was covered up )years before the official formation of the infamous "RED CELL" ,the SEAL team tasked with testing/Breaching security at various top secret /High Security Military & Civilian facilities.

If you keep in mind he was Commanding officer of UDT 21 & SEAL Team 6 & a Platoon Commander of SEAL Team 2 during the "Men with Green Faces "Vietnam War era,then you realize who is being talked about ,he was also the guy who was portrayed as the SEAL Team 6 COM for that Charlie Sheen movie SEALs & apparently the Director spent a couple of days with him on the phone pleading with him, after Capt Ron demanded a couple of scenes were cut about his Submarine mission exploits,he still used to chuckle about that as the Hollyweird types could not believe he would not agree to be portrayed as the all American Hero .

The books l can recommend are the ones the actual SEALs who were there told me to read as they were accurate ,so Dick Marinko's book Rogue Warrior,Dick was the other SEAL Platoon Commander in those first years in Nam ,he is a great bloke but a nutter ,me & him got on like a house on fire because he was very much like my favorite Uncle who was a Korean War Vet & went on to be a leader of a well known World Wide motorcycle gang in Australia & while never a member l have ridden bikes since l could sit on one & partied with the best of them.So Dick comes across as a wild man, but if you just give as good back & refused to be intimidated , he was cool & he loved his bikes as well so we had a lot in common, he is extremely loyal & he has a heart of gold .

In his book Rogue Warrior, Dick was Platoon Commander of ST6(SEAL Team 6) & because Capt Ron was made Commanding Officer of ST6 & was brought in to clean up ST6, as they were cowboys under Dicks "leadership",in Dicks book Rogue Warrior, Dick disguised Capt Ron Yeaw identity as Don Pitch, in Old School Navy tradition (get it ron -don & Pitch, Roll and YAW of boats) & called him "ass kissing intel weenie." for getting the new rules laid down on how SEAL Team 6 would operate & its direction & purpose from then on,but in reality Capt Ron was told if he did not bring them to heel, ST6 would be disbanded (imagine how that might have changed history ) .

Another book recommended by the SEAls & a really great bloke & friend was Harry Constance who wrote what l think is the best SEAL book of all Good To Go .Capt Ron ST2 platoon commander at the time Harry Constance's wrote about in his "Good To Go." book,that includes a chapter on the big firefight they were in while hunting for the POW's & when Capt Ron was badly wounded when a satchel charge/grenade basically landed on him. Harry called him a pin cushion after seeing his wounds & it stuck with Capt Ron from then on.Other books the SEALs recommended are Brave Men Dark Waters and Never Fight Fair,they were very disappointed about how much Garbage has been printed over the years .

Capt Ron wrote of his time in Vietnam incognito for a couple of the original SEALs who put out books, including the foreword in "Good To Go." & hated doing it ,that is why the family had so much trouble in dragging info out of him. Harry Constance was renowned for calling a Spade a Spade & his book ruffled a lot of feathers in the SEALs & SF community for calling out team guys who he felt did not perform under combat,he always spoke highly of Capt Ron when he was out of ear reach ,which wasn't far for Capt Ron as what getting blown up didn't destroy of his hearing,deploying out of torpedo tubes at maximum depth did .


I should also point out so there is no confusion ,although Capt Ron & Dick Marcinko clashed when Captain Yeaw took over SEAL Team 6 ,they remained life long friends right to the end & Dick Marcinko being the wildman he is, always spent time with the Yeaw family when his running amuck was catching up with him Stateside.

To show you what sort of guys they are back in 2014-15 my wife & l were ticking off a Bucket list item of Sailing around the South Pacific.we did it in a old yacht l brought cheap after the financial melt down in Singapore & restored it while it sat at anchor in Singapore harbor,l get a phone call out of the blue asking did l want to join a couple of the Nam era SEALs Captain "Pete" Peterson & Captain Rick Woolard with a group of others & might need a hand for a few days,so l grabbed a cheap flight & ended up being part of this .Although thankfully l am only briefly shown in the background a couple of times,carried my ratty old stoney creek pack. loaded up with cartons of cigarettes with packet wrappers like they had in the 60-70's ,to be dispensed at will to authorities blocking our access & gifts ,l became known as Smoko to the locals much to the others amusement .

if you have not seen this documentary l highly recommend it ,this also shows what great people these guys are,who even after having seen & done unimaginable horrors they are great men with hearts of gold .Have you ever seen or heard about the documentary" A Bond Unbroken- The Why Of Minh- "about the Vietnam War era SEALs & Brown Water Navy guys on a mission to find their Vietnamese combat interpreter,who was lost during the confusion of the evacuation & never heard of for decades after the Vietnam war had ended ?

-A write up on it -


"A reunion 40 years in the making. After decades of wondering what became of their combat interpreter, a group of U.S. Navy SEALs attempts to find Nguyen Hoang Minh, left behind in the aftermath of the Vietnam War. When they discover him living in abject poverty, the bond they forged during the conflict is so strong that the entire SEAL community takes up funds to ensure that Minh has financial security for the rest of his life. The film documents the circumstances that created that bond, the reunion, and the impact on the Vietnamese-American community"


Capt Ron & a lot of the guys l have been talking about are in this as well & it has some really good home movie style combat footage of SEALs ,Brown Water Navy & Seawolves -Worth watching if you have not & some great Home movie Combat footage -

" A Bond Unbroken- The Why Of Minh- "


https://vimeo.com/185166669

Thank you for the book recommendations and the film too, I’ll definitely be consuming them all. Smoko, I like that, funny how nicknames stick. You are lucky to know such incredible men, I’d love to know more about how you came to meet them, you mentioned guiding?
And again thank you for sharing CPT Ron’s story. A man dies twice, once when his heart stops beating and once when he is forgotten, Capt Ron will not be forgotten.
Cheers

For those interested in these types of stories, check out the Jocko podcast. He has loads of great interviews with veterans going back to WW2. He also covers books on various subjects from the Napoleonic Wars to the "Gulag Archipelago" and more.

https://jockopodcast.com/

Originally Posted by Sh00ter

For those interested in these types of stories, check out the Jocko podcast. He has loads of great interviews with veterans going back to WW2. He also covers books on various subjects from the Napoleonic Wars to the "Gulag Archipelago" and more.

https://jockopodcast.com/

I’m a big fan of Jocko, second this

"You are lucky to know such incredible men, I’d love to know more about how you came to meet them, you mentioned guiding?"
@hamish9701 .Yes we are very lucky to have got to know & become friends with a number of interesting characters from our work/travels around the world over the years .

I am very lucky in that my long suffering wife loves Hunting, Fishing,Diving,Boats & exploring remote regions as much as l do.Back in the late 90's we sold the farm here & decided to do something we had both wanted to do for a while ,combining things we lover doing recreation-ally with a business .We partnered up with a couple we knew from Sky Diving ,Motorbikes & Scuba Diving who operated a "Adventure" Outfitting business in remote areas of PNG & the Top End of Oz ie Diving ,Trekking/Exploring,Rock climbing/Abseiling ,Hunting & Fishing .I looked more after the Hunting/Fishing side.

A large part of the clientele they had built up over the years were Veterans (Partner was a Ex Norwegian Navy & PMC Clearance Diver ),as we dived & operated in areas loaded with WW2 wrecks & artifacts & had access to areas off limits to the general public ,(like a WW2, US Secret Bomber Base,that was littered with equipment & wrecks). The third client l took up in PNG, was the Colonel who outfitted around the world, who had a group of Pacific campaign Vets with him,we got on well from the start ,at the end of that trip he booked me to take him & his son Hunting/fishing/Diving in Arnhem Land on a private trip.After 9/11 Americans were hesitant to travel to most destinations ,we were deemed as being in a "safe"area & business 'boomed' ,the Colonel did a lot of trips with us that & then over the years it grew to where we did trips all over the world & hunted Africa a number of times .

The Colonel is a hugely successful businessman & he operated among others a Lodge set up to cater solely for Veterans & their families, our friendship grew & he asked me to join him as a manager for part of the year, which l did for a number of years & through socializing with the Colonel & his family with the guys he served /worked with (a lot were the original leadership for contractors operating in the ME) ,plus the clientele l got to be friends & guide for many of their trips around the world .

A lot of people can not handle being around Combat Veterans, as they can be pretty intense & "Alpha" for want of a better description, but our Kiwi, Bushy Bastard up bringing & no BS nature ,plus in my case the fact l have been around bikers through the family all my life, meant l had no problems dealing/socializing & becoming close friends with many.

A lot of people do not realize how well respected & valued Kiwis are around the world, for being "real",no BS in nature& especially Farm raised Kiwi's are valued for the large range of "jack of all trades ,master of none"skill set & can do attitude.IMO part of the reason Kiwi's are valued over dopey Aussies so much in their own mine industry

Originally Posted by Sh00ter

For those interested in these types of stories, check out the Jocko podcast. He has loads of great interviews with veterans going back to WW2. He also covers books on various subjects from the Napoleonic Wars to the "Gulag Archipelago" and more.

https://jockopodcast.com/

Sounds interesting thanks for the heads up, we have terrible slow & limited internet on the farm ,l have never listened to podcasts here ,would l be able to do it on the computer & do they eat up data allowance?

Originally Posted by bunji

Sounds interesting thanks for the heads up, we have terrible slow & limited internet on the farm ,l have never listened to podcasts here ,would l be able to do it on the computer & do they eat up data allowance?

Not sure on how much data they take up, you could always download a few when you’re in town and yes you’ll be able to get them on the computer. I recommend the SOG episodes with John Stryker Meyer but they’re all fantastic.