Field modifying service weapons

I’ve just finished reading a thread about how twigs/branches can throw off a shot, the post touches on how the Aussies often preferred to use the L1A1 over the M16 in Vietnam for the reason that the heavier bullet performed better in the jungle. The L1A1 had a lot of disadvantages compared to the M16 which reminded me about the Aussie SASR modifying their SLRs in theatre.

The SLR was long, heavy and didn’t fire in full-auto. This was obviously an issue for the SASR as they operated covertly in dense jungle for long periods of time and regularly got into heavy engagements, so many picked up the M16. The alternate option was to modify the SLR, which many did as they preferred the .762 cartridge. A common modification was dubbed “The bitch” and consisted of shortening the barrel and gas system, removing the flash hider and front wood, adding an underslung grenade launcher and new sights, modifying the sear in order to fire full auto and using the larger 30rd mags from the L2A1 LMG.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...c02e65e60d.jpg


This ugly contraption was shorter, lighter and could throw devastating .762 full auto fire, meaning it was a much more effective weapon in close range engagements. It was also said to add ‘shock factor’ to the enemy, who would have been somewhat used to being engaged by M16s. The short barrel and no flash hider, coupled with the larger cartridge and full-auto fire created an enormous racket which could initially stun the enemy and lead them to believe they were being engaged by a much larger force.

People may argue that the accuracy of the weapon was reduced my undertaking these modifications, and they are most probably correct. The reality is an SAS trooper isn’t going to be worried about his rifle being accurate out to long distances if he is only engaging the enemy at 10-30 meters (as was most common).

Many people (myself included) scowl at folks modifying old service weapons at home and removing their historical significance and accuracy. In the field, such modifications would have been close to a necessity and I can imagine the “it ain’t stupid if it works” attitude was taken in many special operations units. Such firearms are now extremely revered in collectors circles and have even more historical significance.

My question to you is what are some other notable examples of troops modifying their service weapons in theatre? How far back does this go? I’m particularly interested in New Zealand examples.

Hamish

Interesting timing for me with this post,I have had a rough couple of weeks & have just got back from taking time out in the hills hunting to gather my thoughts & just get away from shit.

While l was guiding in the US l worked a number of years for one of the original members of The Phoenix Program with Military Assistance Command, Vietnam – Studies and Observations Group (MACV-SOG) “SPIKE TEAMS" that operated “Over the Fence” ,a really just outstanding bloke & through him l became close friends with a number of MACV-SOG & guys who were among the first ever SEALs from the UDT group & who were the first ever SEALs to go into combat (SEAL Team 2 the infamous "The Men With Green Faces") .

One of these original SEALs became a close friend & mentor, Captain Ronald Everest Yeaw, who was a huge support during the time my wife battled Cancer.Unfortunately he passed a few days ago after his own long battle & with the Chyna Flu, Cluster-Fuck , l will not be able to be with his family or most likely the planned ceremony being held by the UDT/SEAL Assoc in his honor, later in the year.

This great Man & Warrior Captain Ron was a weapons expert who many SEALs accredit as the man who forged the reputation of the Stoner 63 LMG,as he used it with deadly efficiency from the first days the SEALs actually used them in combat.

The Stoner 63 which was his favorite weapon he used at any stage of his 30 years at the pointy end of the spear,was quickly found to need modifications to suit the extreme conditions the SEAL Team 2, 7th Platoon, Capt Ron led & faced in the Rung Sat Special Zone Mangrove Swamps.Stoner invited Capt Ron to work directly with the Stoner team & Capt Ron spent a lot of time back Stateside before & between tours working on various weapons systems at the Special Forces Weapons Testing Centers,where he also worked with Colt on the CAR-15,its "Flash hider"& very importantly for the SEALs the larger 30 round magazine reliability & the interim fix of dual magazines clipped together .

Modifications on the Stoner 63 included various grips front & rear,enlarging gas ports ,Stock design,Sling fastening options & Ammunition feed & magazines as Capt Ron was a great believer in having a balanced weapon with proper weight distribution as a lot of their CQB in the thick swamp was off hand & kills at 100 yards were long shots,most were not much more than 10 yards.

Capt Ron was a weapons aficionado & while they were being ferried back to base by the Brown Water Navy, after long days of combat,the other SEALs would be enjoying a cold beer ,Capt Ron would use up any unused ammo trying various modifications he would have stashed in the pick up boats ,while using filthy & carbon coked/leaded weapons from long use in combat to prove or expose reliability issues with the mods.Capt Ron was continually looking at ways of having weapons & Kit modified for multi/efficient use ,including his infamous huge Bandanna ,that was big enough to be used as a tourniquet,tie prisoners snatched in the fields Hands/ arms,gag them,use as a sling etc .

Capt Ron also was part of the group who worked on the mods to the M60 7.62mm Machine Guns carried by the SeaWolves helicopter crews the SEALs would use for in land operations .The door gunners hated the fixed pintle mounts & so in country on the floating Airport/landing bases they designed the weird looking long stocks that you tucked under your are arm & many fired while holding the M60 on its side,giving them a much wider ark of fire & enabling them to step on to the skid to give covering fire while doing Dust Offs & pick ups while under fire .Capt Ron wanted a M60 or SEAL use that could be carried much easier & suited to firing from the hip where a lot of the Ambushes /engagements were fought at extreme close range .

The modified Stoner 63 LMG worked much as the SLR "Bitch" did but with more fire power ie extreme muzzle blast & flash combined with the added advantage of a 150 round Drum Magazine that centered the balance of the LMG making it very easy to fire even one handed ,A fact that saved many wounded operators .

Capt Ron was part of what is still seen one of the greatest battles the SEALs have ever fought,on a operation to save 1 confirmed & 3 possible US POW's as well as local elders,unbeknownst to the SEAls in between them getting the intel from a spy high up in the local NVC,2 other local NVC forces joined where the POW's were being held to hold a sort of auction for the prized captures.

The "POW HUNT " fire fight is known as one of the greatest SEAL battles of all time .14 SEALS surrounded by around 650 North Vietcong. NVC guys should have brought more men. Estimated 135 NVC killed, and 0 SEALs died.They accredited the noise & fire power the Stoner 63's gave,with them using Shoot & Scoot tactics ,to helping confuse the NVC battalion they had dropped into.The helicopter crews that flew in for BDA & local forces on the ground reported the Stoner 63 positions were surrounded by half circles of NVC bodies piled on top of each other.North Vietcong leadership in the years after confirmed there was actually 800 fighters at the POW camp & only 50 were tasked with removing the POW's once the fire fight began so in reality they faced 750 NVC ,but using the Stoners & Shoot & Scoot tactics the Seals actually had the NVC shooting at each other.The Stoner op's had the NVC targeting the glowing barrels in the dark, they were throwing out that much lead

These guys had weapons collections worth big bucks, that would fill standard kiwi home lounge rooms from floor to ceiling & l was very lucky to get to shoot a lot of them when invited to stay with them .IMO The Stoner 63 is one of the easiest to control as its recoil pulse/rate of fire combined with balance makes it very controllable & accurate.

Well this went on longer than planned if you want any other info let me know.

Here is some info on Capt Ron, IMO he is the greatest unknown Warrior in recent American military history who among other things ,was among first SEALs to ever enter & fight in Combat,among first ever to deploy on a mission from a Nuclear Submarine ,completed one of the deepest dive deployments for concealment ever from a Submarines torpedo tubes,while actively being hunted & just a little thing of developing the rig & tactics & for parachuting while having a Nuclear Bomb strapped to them .

Largely unheard of by the public because he was Old School from a Era when Loose Lips ,Sink Ships meant something not serving as a means to get a book/movie deal & l met a few of them celebry-seals as well .Capt Ron was one hell of a intelligent & caring man .

Here is a brief run down on his "official on the books "service record -


https://imgur.com/lYvzw7p

Captain Ronald Everest Yeaw, -




30 distinguished years of military service in the US Navy included, but certainly were not limited to; U.S. Navy Captain in Naval Special Warfare Operations where he served in a variety of high level Navy and joint service operational, command, and staff positions. He was an Underwater Demolition Team Frogman (UDT) and Navy SEAL, participating in 3 SEAL combat tours to the Republic of Vietnam with SEAL Team 2, “The Men with Green Faces”, where he earned 9 medals with a combat V indicating valor in combat including 4 bronze stars, the Republic of Vietnam Cross of Gallantry, 7 Campaign Medals, and the Purple Heart. He also served as the Commanding Officer of both Underwater Demolition Team 21 and SEAL Team 6. During his illustrious career he was awarded a total of 45 individual medals and ribbons including the Superior Service Medal, the Navy Legion of Merit, and 5 Defense and Navy Meritorious Service Medals.

interesting, tell us more

Bloody photos do not want to load using forum links

Try these -

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"Fair Winds and Following Seas" - Capt Ron you Glorious Bastard

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bunji

Interesting timing for me with this post,I have had a rough couple of weeks & have just got back from taking time out in the hills hunting to gather my thoughts & just get away from shit.

While l was guiding in the US l worked a number of years for one of the original members of The Phoenix Program with Military Assistance Command, Vietnam – Studies and Observations Group (MACV-SOG) “SPIKE TEAMS" that operated “Over the Fence” ,a really just outstanding bloke & through him l became close friends with a number of MACV-SOG & guys who were among the first ever SEALs from the UDT group & who were the first ever SEALs to go into combat (SEAL Team 2 the infamous "The Men With Green Faces") .

One of these original SEALs became a close friend & mentor, Captain Ronald Everest Yeaw, who was a huge support during the time my wife battled Cancer.Unfortunately he passed a few days ago after his own long battle & with the Chyna Flu, Cluster-Fuck , l will not be able to be with his family or most likely the planned ceremony being held by the UDT/SEAL Assoc in his honor, later in the year.

This great Man & Warrior Captain Ron was a weapons expert who many SEALs accredit as the man who forged the reputation of the Stoner 63 LMG,as he used it with deadly efficiency from the first days the SEALs actually used them in combat.

The Stoner 63 which was his favorite weapon he used at any stage of his 30 years at the pointy end of the spear,was quickly found to need modifications to suit the extreme conditions the SEAL Team 2, 7th Platoon, Capt Ron led & faced in the Rung Sat Special Zone Mangrove Swamps.Stoner invited Capt Ron to work directly with the Stoner team & Capt Ron spent a lot of time back Stateside before & between tours working on various weapons systems at the Special Forces Weapons Testing Centers,where he also worked with Colt on the CAR-15,its "Flash hider"& very importantly for the SEALs the larger 30 round magazine reliability & the interim fix of dual magazines clipped together .

Modifications on the Stoner 63 included various grips front & rear,enlarging gas ports ,Stock design,Sling fastening options & Ammunition feed & magazines as Capt Ron was a great believer in having a balanced weapon with proper weight distribution as a lot of their CQB in the thick swamp was off hand & kills at 100 yards were long shots,most were not much more than 10 yards.

Capt Ron was a weapons aficionado & while they were being ferried back to base by the Brown Water Navy, after long days of combat,the other SEALs would be enjoying a cold beer ,Capt Ron would use up any unused ammo trying various modifications he would have stashed in the pick up boats ,while using filthy & carbon coked/leaded weapons from long use in combat to prove or expose reliability issues with the mods.Capt Ron was continually looking at ways of having weapons & Kit modified for multi/efficient use ,including his infamous huge Bandanna ,that was big enough to be used as a tourniquet,tie prisoners snatched in the fields Hands/ arms,gag them,use as a sling etc .

Capt Ron also was part of the group who worked on the mods to the M60 7.62mm Machine Guns carried by the SeaWolves helicopter crews the SEALs would use for in land operations .The door gunners hated the fixed pintle mounts & so in country on the floating Airport/landing bases they designed the weird looking long stocks that you tucked under your are arm & many fired while holding the M60 on its side,giving them a much wider ark of fire & enabling them to step on to the skid to give covering fire while doing Dust Offs & pick ups while under fire .Capt Ron wanted a M60 or SEAL use that could be carried much easier & suited to firing from the hip where a lot of the Ambushes /engagements were fought at extreme close range .

The modified Stoner 63 LMG worked much as the SLR "Bitch" did but with more fire power ie extreme muzzle blast & flash combined with the added advantage of a 150 round Drum Magazine that centered the balance of the LMG making it very easy to fire even one handed ,A fact that saved many wounded operators .

Capt Ron was part of what is still seen one of the greatest battles the SEALs have ever fought,on a operation to save 1 confirmed & 3 possible US POW's as well as local elders,unbeknownst to the SEAls in between them getting the intel from a spy high up in the local NVC,2 other local NVC forces joined where the POW's were being held to hold a sort of auction for the prized captures.

The "POW HUNT " fire fight is known as one of the greatest SEAL battles of all time .14 SEALS surrounded by around 650 North Vietcong. NVC guys should have brought more men. Estimated 135 NVC killed, and 0 SEALs died.They accredited the noise & fire power the Stoner 63's gave,with them using Shoot & Scoot tactics ,to helping confuse the NVC battalion they had dropped into.The helicopter crews that flew in for BDA & local forces on the ground reported the Stoner 63 positions were surrounded by half circles of NVC bodies piled on top of each other.North Vietcong leadership in the years after confirmed there was actually 800 fighters at the POW camp & only 50 were tasked with removing the POW's once the fire fight began so in reality they faced 750 NVC ,but using the Stoners & Shoot & Scoot tactics the Seals actually had the NVC shooting at each other.The Stoner op's had the NVC targeting the glowing barrels in the dark, they were throwing out that much lead

These guys had weapons collections worth big bucks, that would fill standard kiwi home lounge rooms from floor to ceiling & l was very lucky to get to shoot a lot of them when invited to stay with them .IMO The Stoner 63 is one of the easiest to control as its recoil pulse/rate of fire combined with balance makes it very controllable & accurate.

Well this went on longer than planned if you want any other info let me know.

Here is some info on Capt Ron, IMO he is the greatest unknown Warrior in recent American military history who among other things ,was among first SEALs to ever enter & fight in Combat,among first ever to deploy on a mission from a Nuclear Submarine ,completed one of the deepest dive deployments for concealment ever from a Submarines torpedo tubes,while actively being hunted & just a little thing of developing the rig & tactics & for parachuting while having a Nuclear Bomb strapped to them .

Largely unheard of by the public because he was Old School from a Era when Loose Lips ,Sink Ships meant something not serving as a means to get a book/movie deal & l met a few of them celebry-seals as well .Capt Ron was one hell of a intelligent & caring man .

Here is a brief run down on his "official on the books "service record -


https://imgur.com/lYvzw7p

Captain Ronald Everest Yeaw, -




30 distinguished years of military service in the US Navy included, but certainly were not limited to; U.S. Navy Captain in Naval Special Warfare Operations where he served in a variety of high level Navy and joint service operational, command, and staff positions. He was an Underwater Demolition Team Frogman (UDT) and Navy SEAL, participating in 3 SEAL combat tours to the Republic of Vietnam with SEAL Team 2, “The Men with Green Faces”, where he earned 9 medals with a combat V indicating valor in combat including 4 bronze stars, the Republic of Vietnam Cross of Gallantry, 7 Campaign Medals, and the Purple Heart. He also served as the Commanding Officer of both Underwater Demolition Team 21 and SEAL Team 6. During his illustrious career he was awarded a total of 45 individual medals and ribbons including the Superior Service Medal, the Navy Legion of Merit, and 5 Defense and Navy Meritorious Service Medals.

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What an amazing story, thank you for sharing. I’m somewhat familiar with the stories of SOG and some of the incredible individuals involved, I’d love to do some more reading on the role SEALs played during the conflict, are there any books you can recommend?

That’s super interesting about the Stoner 63 and it’s wartime development, I don’t know a hell of a lot about the weapon so I’ll do some more research. At the end of the day combat is the most effective test of any weapon so it’s cool to hear about those modifications and how the manufacturer worked with CPT Yeaw to improve the design.

I’m sad to hear about the passing of CPT Ron Yeaw, he sounds like an incredible man and leader, the way you speak of him must be a true testament to his character. Loosing a friend is hard, particularly a man of such caliber. I too, as many on here, find solace in the hills and I hope they help you as much as they have helped me in the past.

Hamish

Thanks for taking the time to write this stuff guys, a welcome opportunity to learn.

Heres a bit from "On Patrol with the SAS, Sleeping with your ears open." by GARY McKAY. About SAS operations in Vietnam


THE AUTOMATIC ‘LIGHT-BARRELLED’ SLR.

The SAS pride themselves on their individuality and this was often expressed in the way they dressed for combat, their weaponry and ammunition load. It all came down to—if you want to carry it, it is your problem. The 7.62 mm Belgian-designed FN semi-automatic (self-loading rifle—SLR) was often favoured because it fired a very powerful .308 calibre bullet. The standard issue rifle was carried by most riflemen in Viet Nam in the infantry battalions but didn’t fire fully automatic—that is, when you pull the trigger the weapon fires until you release the trigger. Normally it would fire only one shot every time you pressed the trigger but would automatically chamber another round so when you released the trigger and pressed again it would repeat the firing cycle. However, soldiers—as is their wont in combat zones—take extraordinary steps to try to give themselves greater firepower on the field of battle.

One SAS patrol scout on his first tour explained how he dealt with his weaponry and ammunition load: I carried a ‘light-barrelled SLR’, but it was fully automatic. The SLR was actually designed with a holding open device so that on the last shot of the magazine it held open and so you could carry out an immediate action drill really easy, but that’s no good for a parade ground, you can’t have people messing around on the parade ground like this. So, the hierarchy of the Australian army said remove the pin. Our armourers put a pin where it was supposed to be in the hold-open device so when the magazine was empty the working parts were held to the rear— just like an M16. So we would take the empty mag off, put it down your shirt, put on a full mag, release the working parts by hitting the holding open device, bang! Away you went again. So, that was a very easy operation to change the SLR to fully auto—it was just inserting a filed change lever and jigging around with the return spring plunger on the trigger. I had a Claymore pouch with the 30-round magazines in them. It was quite a good set-up. When you look back it was cumbersome to be a scout with that weapon, but it was all right. It was good in a shitfight.

The ‘light-barrelled SLR’ is an in-joke for the soldiers, as there was a heavy-barrelled SLR which went by the nomenclature of the L4A4 automatic rifle which was an SLR with a fully automatic firing mechanism and a heavier barrel to withstand the higher operating temperatures. It also came with folding bipod legs and could be used as a light machine-gun using 30-round box magazines. Another man who liked the hitting power of the SLR was Peter Schuman: ‘I had seen a guy hit with an SLR through a rubber tree and I thought that was pretty impressive—so I liked that.’

The expression that ‘bullshit baffles brains’ is very true in the SAS notion of throwing as much lead at the enemy to get him to keep his head down while the patrol took off. The other thing that also helped was the reports from the weapons. The 7.62 mm SLR, or a .308 calibre rifle, was a noisy beast which didn’t go bang, it went boom! It was often referred to as ‘the elephant gun’ by the Diggers and it was by far the noisiest rifle and probably the hardest-hitting weapon in the war that was not a machine-gun. But when you get these beasts firing on automatic and in unison, the noise level was dramatic: The sound of an SAS contact is just awesome. There is no, ‘Bang’—I wonder what that was?—‘Bang’—a few more shots. Whatever is happening? If we got away the first rounds, it would be automatic and it would be a full magazine, maybe if there were unders and overs— we would have grenades going off, and rapidly joined in by the other patrol members. So it would rapidly escalate into a huge amount of fire by five people putting down automatic fire and grenades and so on. So we could recognise when one of our own patrols had a contact, and knew it was an SAS patrol. It could not be anybody else.

The patrol members all used 30-round magazines wherever they could as it gave a longer burst of fire, lengthened the time between magazine changes and allowed more ammunition to be carried loaded. Nev Farley ran through his patrol’s SOP on the initial burst of fire: We used 30-round magazines, and most of the blokes carried a 30-round magazine on their weapon. Because the idea was that when you had a contact, you deliberately fired as much ammunition as you could, and if you had those bloody SLRs on fully automatic, firing a 30-round magazine, and if the flash eliminator was taken off it, you would think, ‘Fuck! What have I hit here?’ Because it sounded heavy, and fast, and automatic, and it would just make old Charlie think, ‘Shit, I’ve hit something big here’ and it would stop them, rather than race in and try to take you out. Because they think they have hit so much firepower, it’s at least a bloody company, and by that time we’ve got ourselves on a back bearing and fucked off out of there. But, once that first magazine was gone, from then on that was our rules, you fired well-aimed, single shots. But it was quite okay to fire a full mag for the first part of it in the initial contact. It’s pretty bloody scary when five blokes all open up at once. There’s a lot of noise and if you’ve got three SLRs on fully automatic with a 30-round magazine, shit flies everywhere.

The SAS patrol SLRs were converted to automatic by the squadron armourer, who also removed the flash eliminator to shorten the weapon’s length thereby making it easier to move through the vines and branches of the thick rainforest: The back sight was set so that it couldn’t be lowered, so it was up at all times.
The armourer fixed it up and put it on fully automatic for us, and with the flash eliminator taken off, took off the bayonet boss and all that shit. They were pretty nasty weapons. It creates a long flame. You could shoot and cauterise the wound at fifteen paces!

Attachment 172127

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sh00ter

Heres a bit from "On Patrol with the SAS, Sleeping with your ears open." by GARY McKAY. About SAS operations in Vietnam


THE AUTOMATIC ‘LIGHT-BARRELLED’ SLR.

The SAS pride themselves on their individuality and this was often expressed in the way they dressed for combat, their weaponry and ammunition load. It all came down to—if you want to carry it, it is your problem. The 7.62 mm Belgian-designed FN semi-automatic (self-loading rifle—SLR) was often favoured because it fired a very powerful .308 calibre bullet. The standard issue rifle was carried by most riflemen in Viet Nam in the infantry battalions but didn’t fire fully automatic—that is, when you pull the trigger the weapon fires until you release the trigger. Normally it would fire only one shot every time you pressed the trigger but would automatically chamber another round so when you released the trigger and pressed again it would repeat the firing cycle. However, soldiers—as is their wont in combat zones—take extraordinary steps to try to give themselves greater firepower on the field of battle.

One SAS patrol scout on his first tour explained how he dealt with his weaponry and ammunition load: I carried a ‘light-barrelled SLR’, but it was fully automatic. The SLR was actually designed with a holding open device so that on the last shot of the magazine it held open and so you could carry out an immediate action drill really easy, but that’s no good for a parade ground, you can’t have people messing around on the parade ground like this. So, the hierarchy of the Australian army said remove the pin. Our armourers put a pin where it was supposed to be in the hold-open device so when the magazine was empty the working parts were held to the rear— just like an M16. So we would take the empty mag off, put it down your shirt, put on a full mag, release the working parts by hitting the holding open device, bang! Away you went again. So, that was a very easy operation to change the SLR to fully auto—it was just inserting a filed change lever and jigging around with the return spring plunger on the trigger. I had a Claymore pouch with the 30-round magazines in them. It was quite a good set-up. When you look back it was cumbersome to be a scout with that weapon, but it was all right. It was good in a shitfight.

The ‘light-barrelled SLR’ is an in-joke for the soldiers, as there was a heavy-barrelled SLR which went by the nomenclature of the L4A4 automatic rifle which was an SLR with a fully automatic firing mechanism and a heavier barrel to withstand the higher operating temperatures. It also came with folding bipod legs and could be used as a light machine-gun using 30-round box magazines. Another man who liked the hitting power of the SLR was Peter Schuman: ‘I had seen a guy hit with an SLR through a rubber tree and I thought that was pretty impressive—so I liked that.’

The expression that ‘bullshit baffles brains’ is very true in the SAS notion of throwing as much lead at the enemy to get him to keep his head down while the patrol took off. The other thing that also helped was the reports from the weapons. The 7.62 mm SLR, or a .308 calibre rifle, was a noisy beast which didn’t go bang, it went boom! It was often referred to as ‘the elephant gun’ by the Diggers and it was by far the noisiest rifle and probably the hardest-hitting weapon in the war that was not a machine-gun. But when you get these beasts firing on automatic and in unison, the noise level was dramatic: The sound of an SAS contact is just awesome. There is no, ‘Bang’—I wonder what that was?—‘Bang’—a few more shots. Whatever is happening? If we got away the first rounds, it would be automatic and it would be a full magazine, maybe if there were unders and overs— we would have grenades going off, and rapidly joined in by the other patrol members. So it would rapidly escalate into a huge amount of fire by five people putting down automatic fire and grenades and so on. So we could recognise when one of our own patrols had a contact, and knew it was an SAS patrol. It could not be anybody else.

The patrol members all used 30-round magazines wherever they could as it gave a longer burst of fire, lengthened the time between magazine changes and allowed more ammunition to be carried loaded. Nev Farley ran through his patrol’s SOP on the initial burst of fire: We used 30-round magazines, and most of the blokes carried a 30-round magazine on their weapon. Because the idea was that when you had a contact, you deliberately fired as much ammunition as you could, and if you had those bloody SLRs on fully automatic, firing a 30-round magazine, and if the flash eliminator was taken off it, you would think, ‘Fuck! What have I hit here?’ Because it sounded heavy, and fast, and automatic, and it would just make old Charlie think, ‘Shit, I’ve hit something big here’ and it would stop them, rather than race in and try to take you out. Because they think they have hit so much firepower, it’s at least a bloody company, and by that time we’ve got ourselves on a back bearing and fucked off out of there. But, once that first magazine was gone, from then on that was our rules, you fired well-aimed, single shots. But it was quite okay to fire a full mag for the first part of it in the initial contact. It’s pretty bloody scary when five blokes all open up at once. There’s a lot of noise and if you’ve got three SLRs on fully automatic with a 30-round magazine, shit flies everywhere.

The SAS patrol SLRs were converted to automatic by the squadron armourer, who also removed the flash eliminator to shorten the weapon’s length thereby making it easier to move through the vines and branches of the thick rainforest: The back sight was set so that it couldn’t be lowered, so it was up at all times.
The armourer fixed it up and put it on fully automatic for us, and with the flash eliminator taken off, took off the bayonet boss and all that shit. They were pretty nasty weapons. It creates a long flame. You could shoot and cauterise the wound at fifteen paces!

Attachment 172127

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Thank you mate, that’s good reading and better coming from someone who used it!
Cheers

"What an amazing story, thank you for sharing. I’m somewhat familiar with the stories of SOG and some of the incredible individuals involved, I’d love to do some more reading on the role SEALs played during the conflict, are there any books you can recommend?"



@hamish9701 I actually have not read many, as l have it locked in as a project of collecting & reading up on the Teams blokes l met & became friends with & have a library & photo display of those good times in a corner of the Man Cave l have marked out to build up on a hill behind the farm house, once l retire as well .

Capt Ron is mentioned in a couple of books but usually with ID kept incognito,during his time fighting in Vietnam he was lucky not to be killed during a assault on a position ,when what the SEALs on the ground believe was a Russian satchel charge but was officially listed as a large grenade,exploded basically right next to him, but with a pile of rubbish in between ,which in the words of the guys who seen him being treated made him look like a pin cushion & they were sure he would die, as up until then they had never seen anybody with that many badly bleeding wounds live. While he was recovering he was tasked with testing, improving & involved in internal security in Special Forces (there was a high level breach by the Russians that was covered up )years before the official formation of the infamous "RED CELL" ,the SEAL team tasked with testing/Breaching security at various top secret /High Security Military & Civilian facilities.

If you keep in mind he was Commanding officer of UDT 21 & SEAL Team 6 & a Platoon Commander of SEAL Team 2 during the "Men with Green Faces "Vietnam War era,then you realize who is being talked about ,he was also the guy who was portrayed as the SEAL Team 6 COM for that Charlie Sheen movie SEALs & apparently the Director spent a couple of days with him on the phone pleading with him, after Capt Ron demanded a couple of scenes were cut about his Submarine mission exploits,he still used to chuckle about that as the Hollyweird types could not believe he would not agree to be portrayed as the all American Hero .

The books l can recommend are the ones the actual SEALs who were there told me to read as they were accurate ,so Dick Marinko's book Rogue Warrior,Dick was the other SEAL Platoon Commander in those first years in Nam ,he is a great bloke but a nutter ,me & him got on like a house on fire because he was very much like my favorite Uncle who was a Korean War Vet & went on to be a leader of a well known World Wide motorcycle gang in Australia & while never a member l have ridden bikes since l could sit on one & partied with the best of them.So Dick comes across as a wild man, but if you just give as good back & refused to be intimidated , he was cool & he loved his bikes as well so we had a lot in common, he is extremely loyal & he has a heart of gold .

In his book Rogue Warrior, Dick was Platoon Commander of ST6(SEAL Team 6) & because Capt Ron was made Commanding Officer of ST6 & was brought in to clean up ST6, as they were cowboys under Dicks "leadership",in Dicks book Rogue Warrior, Dick disguised Capt Ron Yeaw identity as Don Pitch, in Old School Navy tradition (get it ron -don & Pitch, Roll and YAW of boats) & called him "ass kissing intel weenie." for getting the new rules laid down on how SEAL Team 6 would operate & its direction & purpose from then on,but in reality Capt Ron was told if he did not bring them to heel, ST6 would be disbanded (imagine how that might have changed history ) .

Another book recommended by the SEAls & a really great bloke & friend was Harry Constance who wrote what l think is the best SEAL book of all Good To Go .Capt Ron ST2 platoon commander at the time Harry Constance's wrote about in his "Good To Go." book,that includes a chapter on the big firefight they were in while hunting for the POW's & when Capt Ron was badly wounded when a satchel charge/grenade basically landed on him. Harry called him a pin cushion after seeing his wounds & it stuck with Capt Ron from then on.Other books the SEALs recommended are Brave Men Dark Waters and Never Fight Fair,they were very disappointed about how much Garbage has been printed over the years .

Capt Ron wrote of his time in Vietnam incognito for a couple of the original SEALs who put out books, including the foreword in "Good To Go." & hated doing it ,that is why the family had so much trouble in dragging info out of him. Harry Constance was renowned for calling a Spade a Spade & his book ruffled a lot of feathers in the SEALs & SF community for calling out team guys who he felt did not perform under combat,he always spoke highly of Capt Ron when he was out of ear reach ,which wasn't far for Capt Ron as what getting blown up didn't destroy of his hearing,deploying out of torpedo tubes at maximum depth did .


I should also point out so there is no confusion ,although Capt Ron & Dick Marcinko clashed when Captain Yeaw took over SEAL Team 6 ,they remained life long friends right to the end & Dick Marcinko being the wildman he is, always spent time with the Yeaw family when his running amuck was catching up with him Stateside.

To show you what sort of guys they are back in 2014-15 my wife & l were ticking off a Bucket list item of Sailing around the South Pacific.we did it in a old yacht l brought cheap after the financial melt down in Singapore & restored it while it sat at anchor in Singapore harbor,l get a phone call out of the blue asking did l want to join a couple of the Nam era SEALs Captain "Pete" Peterson & Captain Rick Woolard with a group of others & might need a hand for a few days,so l grabbed a cheap flight & ended up being part of this .Although thankfully l am only briefly shown in the background a couple of times,carried my ratty old stoney creek pack. loaded up with cartons of cigarettes with packet wrappers like they had in the 60-70's ,to be dispensed at will to authorities blocking our access & gifts ,l became known as Smoko to the locals much to the others amusement .

if you have not seen this documentary l highly recommend it ,this also shows what great people these guys are,who even after having seen & done unimaginable horrors they are great men with hearts of gold .Have you ever seen or heard about the documentary" A Bond Unbroken- The Why Of Minh- "about the Vietnam War era SEALs & Brown Water Navy guys on a mission to find their Vietnamese combat interpreter,who was lost during the confusion of the evacuation & never heard of for decades after the Vietnam war had ended ?

-A write up on it -


"A reunion 40 years in the making. After decades of wondering what became of their combat interpreter, a group of U.S. Navy SEALs attempts to find Nguyen Hoang Minh, left behind in the aftermath of the Vietnam War. When they discover him living in abject poverty, the bond they forged during the conflict is so strong that the entire SEAL community takes up funds to ensure that Minh has financial security for the rest of his life. The film documents the circumstances that created that bond, the reunion, and the impact on the Vietnamese-American community"


Capt Ron & a lot of the guys l have been talking about are in this as well & it has some really good home movie style combat footage of SEALs ,Brown Water Navy & Seawolves -Worth watching if you have not & some great Home movie Combat footage -

" A Bond Unbroken- The Why Of Minh- "


https://vimeo.com/185166669

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bunji

"What an amazing story, thank you for sharing. I’m somewhat familiar with the stories of SOG and some of the incredible individuals involved, I’d love to do some more reading on the role SEALs played during the conflict, are there any books you can recommend?"



@hamish9701 I actually have not read many, as l have it locked in as a project of collecting & reading up on the Teams blokes l met & became friends with & have a library & photo display of those good times in a corner of the Man Cave l have marked out to build up on a hill behind the farm house, once l retire as well .

Capt Ron is mentioned in a couple of books but usually with ID kept incognito,during his time fighting in Vietnam he was lucky not to be killed during a assault on a position ,when what the SEALs on the ground believe was a Russian satchel charge but was officially listed as a large grenade,exploded basically right next to him, but with a pile of rubbish in between ,which in the words of the guys who seen him being treated made him look like a pin cushion & they were sure he would die, as up until then they had never seen anybody with that many badly bleeding wounds live. While he was recovering he was tasked with testing, improving & involved in internal security in Special Forces (there was a high level breach by the Russians that was covered up )years before the official formation of the infamous "RED CELL" ,the SEAL team tasked with testing/Breaching security at various top secret /High Security Military & Civilian facilities.

If you keep in mind he was Commanding officer of UDT 21 & SEAL Team 6 & a Platoon Commander of SEAL Team 2 during the "Men with Green Faces "Vietnam War era,then you realize who is being talked about ,he was also the guy who was portrayed as the SEAL Team 6 COM for that Charlie Sheen movie SEALs & apparently the Director spent a couple of days with him on the phone pleading with him, after Capt Ron demanded a couple of scenes were cut about his Submarine mission exploits,he still used to chuckle about that as the Hollyweird types could not believe he would not agree to be portrayed as the all American Hero .

The books l can recommend are the ones the actual SEALs who were there told me to read as they were accurate ,so Dick Marinko's book Rogue Warrior,Dick was the other SEAL Platoon Commander in those first years in Nam ,he is a great bloke but a nutter ,me & him got on like a house on fire because he was very much like my favorite Uncle who was a Korean War Vet & went on to be a leader of a well known World Wide motorcycle gang in Australia & while never a member l have ridden bikes since l could sit on one & partied with the best of them.So Dick comes across as a wild man, but if you just give as good back & refused to be intimidated , he was cool & he loved his bikes as well so we had a lot in common, he is extremely loyal & he has a heart of gold .

In his book Rogue Warrior, Dick was Platoon Commander of ST6(SEAL Team 6) & because Capt Ron was made Commanding Officer of ST6 & was brought in to clean up ST6, as they were cowboys under Dicks "leadership",in Dicks book Rogue Warrior, Dick disguised Capt Ron Yeaw identity as Don Pitch, in Old School Navy tradition (get it ron -don & Pitch, Roll and YAW of boats) & called him "ass kissing intel weenie." for getting the new rules laid down on how SEAL Team 6 would operate & its direction & purpose from then on,but in reality Capt Ron was told if he did not bring them to heel, ST6 would be disbanded (imagine how that might have changed history ) .

Another book recommended by the SEAls & a really great bloke & friend was Harry Constance who wrote what l think is the best SEAL book of all Good To Go .Capt Ron ST2 platoon commander at the time Harry Constance's wrote about in his "Good To Go." book,that includes a chapter on the big firefight they were in while hunting for the POW's & when Capt Ron was badly wounded when a satchel charge/grenade basically landed on him. Harry called him a pin cushion after seeing his wounds & it stuck with Capt Ron from then on.Other books the SEALs recommended are Brave Men Dark Waters and Never Fight Fair,they were very disappointed about how much Garbage has been printed over the years .

Capt Ron wrote of his time in Vietnam incognito for a couple of the original SEALs who put out books, including the foreword in "Good To Go." & hated doing it ,that is why the family had so much trouble in dragging info out of him. Harry Constance was renowned for calling a Spade a Spade & his book ruffled a lot of feathers in the SEALs & SF community for calling out team guys who he felt did not perform under combat,he always spoke highly of Capt Ron when he was out of ear reach ,which wasn't far for Capt Ron as what getting blown up didn't destroy of his hearing,deploying out of torpedo tubes at maximum depth did .


I should also point out so there is no confusion ,although Capt Ron & Dick Marcinko clashed when Captain Yeaw took over SEAL Team 6 ,they remained life long friends right to the end & Dick Marcinko being the wildman he is, always spent time with the Yeaw family when his running amuck was catching up with him Stateside.

To show you what sort of guys they are back in 2014-15 my wife & l were ticking off a Bucket list item of Sailing around the South Pacific.we did it in a old yacht l brought cheap after the financial melt down in Singapore & restored it while it sat at anchor in Singapore harbor,l get a phone call out of the blue asking did l want to join a couple of the Nam era SEALs Captain "Pete" Peterson & Captain Rick Woolard with a group of others & might need a hand for a few days,so l grabbed a cheap flight & ended up being part of this .Although thankfully l am only briefly shown in the background a couple of times,carried my ratty old stoney creek pack. loaded up with cartons of cigarettes with packet wrappers like they had in the 60-70's ,to be dispensed at will to authorities blocking our access & gifts ,l became known as Smoko to the locals much to the others amusement .

if you have not seen this documentary l highly recommend it ,this also shows what great people these guys are,who even after having seen & done unimaginable horrors they are great men with hearts of gold .Have you ever seen or heard about the documentary" A Bond Unbroken- The Why Of Minh- "about the Vietnam War era SEALs & Brown Water Navy guys on a mission to find their Vietnamese combat interpreter,who was lost during the confusion of the evacuation & never heard of for decades after the Vietnam war had ended ?

-A write up on it -


"A reunion 40 years in the making. After decades of wondering what became of their combat interpreter, a group of U.S. Navy SEALs attempts to find Nguyen Hoang Minh, left behind in the aftermath of the Vietnam War. When they discover him living in abject poverty, the bond they forged during the conflict is so strong that the entire SEAL community takes up funds to ensure that Minh has financial security for the rest of his life. The film documents the circumstances that created that bond, the reunion, and the impact on the Vietnamese-American community"


Capt Ron & a lot of the guys l have been talking about are in this as well & it has some really good home movie style combat footage of SEALs ,Brown Water Navy & Seawolves -Worth watching if you have not & some great Home movie Combat footage -

" A Bond Unbroken- The Why Of Minh- "


https://vimeo.com/185166669

---

Thank you for the book recommendations and the film too, I’ll definitely be consuming them all. Smoko, I like that, funny how nicknames stick. You are lucky to know such incredible men, I’d love to know more about how you came to meet them, you mentioned guiding?
And again thank you for sharing CPT Ron’s story. A man dies twice, once when his heart stops beating and once when he is forgotten, Capt Ron will not be forgotten.
Cheers

For those interested in these types of stories, check out the Jocko podcast. He has loads of great interviews with veterans going back to WW2. He also covers books on various subjects from the Napoleonic Wars to the "Gulag Archipelago" and more.

https://jockopodcast.com/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sh00ter

For those interested in these types of stories, check out the Jocko podcast. He has loads of great interviews with veterans going back to WW2. He also covers books on various subjects from the Napoleonic Wars to the "Gulag Archipelago" and more.

https://jockopodcast.com/

---

I’m a big fan of Jocko, second this

"You are lucky to know such incredible men, I’d love to know more about how you came to meet them, you mentioned guiding?"
@hamish9701 .Yes we are very lucky to have got to know & become friends with a number of interesting characters from our work/travels around the world over the years .

I am very lucky in that my long suffering wife loves Hunting, Fishing,Diving,Boats & exploring remote regions as much as l do.Back in the late 90's we sold the farm here & decided to do something we had both wanted to do for a while ,combining things we lover doing recreation-ally with a business .We partnered up with a couple we knew from Sky Diving ,Motorbikes & Scuba Diving who operated a "Adventure" Outfitting business in remote areas of PNG & the Top End of Oz ie Diving ,Trekking/Exploring,Rock climbing/Abseiling ,Hunting & Fishing .I looked more after the Hunting/Fishing side.

A large part of the clientele they had built up over the years were Veterans (Partner was a Ex Norwegian Navy & PMC Clearance Diver ),as we dived & operated in areas loaded with WW2 wrecks & artifacts & had access to areas off limits to the general public ,(like a WW2, US Secret Bomber Base,that was littered with equipment & wrecks). The third client l took up in PNG, was the Colonel who outfitted around the world, who had a group of Pacific campaign Vets with him,we got on well from the start ,at the end of that trip he booked me to take him & his son Hunting/fishing/Diving in Arnhem Land on a private trip.After 9/11 Americans were hesitant to travel to most destinations ,we were deemed as being in a "safe"area & business 'boomed' ,the Colonel did a lot of trips with us that & then over the years it grew to where we did trips all over the world & hunted Africa a number of times .

The Colonel is a hugely successful businessman & he operated among others a Lodge set up to cater solely for Veterans & their families, our friendship grew & he asked me to join him as a manager for part of the year, which l did for a number of years & through socializing with the Colonel & his family with the guys he served /worked with (a lot were the original leadership for contractors operating in the ME) ,plus the clientele l got to be friends & guide for many of their trips around the world .

A lot of people can not handle being around Combat Veterans, as they can be pretty intense & "Alpha" for want of a better description, but our Kiwi, Bushy Bastard up bringing & no BS nature ,plus in my case the fact l have been around bikers through the family all my life, meant l had no problems dealing/socializing & becoming close friends with many.

A lot of people do not realize how well respected & valued Kiwis are around the world, for being "real",no BS in nature& especially Farm raised Kiwi's are valued for the large range of "jack of all trades ,master of none"skill set & can do attitude.IMO part of the reason Kiwi's are valued over dopey Aussies so much in their own mine industry :P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sh00ter

For those interested in these types of stories, check out the Jocko podcast. He has loads of great interviews with veterans going back to WW2. He also covers books on various subjects from the Napoleonic Wars to the "Gulag Archipelago" and more.

https://jockopodcast.com/

---

Sounds interesting thanks for the heads up, we have terrible slow & limited internet on the farm ,l have never listened to podcasts here ,would l be able to do it on the computer & do they eat up data allowance?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bunji

Sounds interesting thanks for the heads up, we have terrible slow & limited internet on the farm ,l have never listened to podcasts here ,would l be able to do it on the computer & do they eat up data allowance?

---

Not sure on how much data they take up, you could always download a few when you’re in town and yes you’ll be able to get them on the computer. I recommend the SOG episodes with John Stryker Meyer but they’re all fantastic.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hamish9701

Not sure on how much data they take up, you could always download a few when you’re in town and yes you’ll be able to get them on the computer. I recommend the SOG episodes with John Stryker Meyer but they’re all fantastic.

---

Do l have to sign up ,pay for membership or anything ?If l can download them it would be good as l could listen while working around the farm .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bunji

Do l have to sign up ,pay for membership or anything ?

---

No nothing like that, the podcast is free on Spotify or Apple Podcasts or any of those type apps [emoji1360]

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hamish9701

No nothing like that, the podcast is free on Spotify or Apple Podcasts or any of those type apps [emoji1360]

---

Thanks l will see how long it takes me yelling at the computer, with my lack of IT skills to try to work it out .:P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bunji

Thanks l will see how long it takes me yelling at the computer, with my lack of IT skills to try to work it out .:P

---

Fair enough, I know that feeling lol. I’m sure some young buck could help if you run into trouble.

@hamish971 I have been talking to the Colonel & others ,they have just been approved to do the following as a small "official "part of Honoring Capt Ron,first time it has ever been allowed -


The UDT-SEAL association are going to perform a ‘swim out’ ceremony in Ft Pierce, Florida from the the UDT-SEAL museum, where the first Underwater Demolition Teams Frogmen (UDT)were trained & the Navy SEAL Teams grew from . Navy SEAL legend Fred Fritsch is going to swim out from the beach and cast Capt Ron’s ashes under full military honors.

It is amazing how many hoops they have to jump through even over 50 years later due to the secret missions Capt Ron completed on the Nuclear Submarines & the early "Red Cell" type of security missions .



@hamish971 I have a lot of rare photos & Video etc from the battle fields in Nam & "The Spike Teams" ,"Over The Fence"operations from the early days of The Phoenix Program etc ,etc showing the wide variety of field modified weaponry they used,everything from ,but will not post anything l am not given the OK for it & after l work out how to hide faces etc ,in those pictures that need it,also the real story of a lot of the Op's right up till fairly recent that the public is either fed straight BS or never hear of & a lot that is not IMO to be proud of particularly among the new breed Celebri-seals.who have been making headlines of late .If they are of interest let us know & l will see what l can do .

I always found it interesting how back in the early days & right up to recent conflicts ,weaponry & equipment is shared among the various elite Special Forces without REMF interfering,makes you wonder what is being flown/shipped at any time. For instance the SEALs were given by the SAS (all very unofficially) some of the Original pommy versions of the Hush Puppy ,suppressed 9mm pistols for assassination & ambush Op's & one Capt Ron used had been used to kill a very high ranking SS, Nazi in.

He told how although they were big & unwieldy,after they made some modifications to the suppressor system , (all while on these floating barge "Heli port / airports" they used in Nam as bases, as they were so far away from any real support bases).They operated almost entirely at night, start of OP's landing at river bank start point at 10Pm pick up at 4AM, all going well ,transported out by Brown Water Navy in low profile ,heavily armed,specially modified, jet boats & if in heavy contact the Seawolves would be scrambled for dust off etc .They would test these original Hush Puppy & later versions before going out on missions by walking up to their posted sentries or small groups talking in the inky blackness & fire them behind their backs into the water & after these modifications they were never detected, even at those close quarters .

Once again Capt Ron was involved in Suppressed weapons that suited the SEALs more & the birth of the Mk 22 Hushpuppy based off the Smith and Wesson M39, a 9mm Semi Auto handgun, the SEALs used along side & with specially developed ammunition, as part of the program for their modified what they nicknamed the "Swedish K", the 9mm Carl Gustav M/45 submachine gun.They even modified the MK22 pistol grip/magwell to use a 13-round double-stack Browning HP magazine to increase firepower as well as a detachable stock & of course threading the barrel & increasing sight height to allow for the suppressor.

MK22

https://i.imgur.com/l4Ud57N.jpg

SEALs with the unsung hero locals,who working as Combat Interpreters,point man,they not only gained important intelligence but also saved the SEAL teams many times, as operating so far behind enemy lines warning of enemy movements near by or the SEALs being hunted was extremely important .

In any "official"posed pic like this they are rarely shown carrying the SEAL modified AK's they would use as point man,so if they walked into a ambush or "bumped" NVC on a narrow jungle path , they could gain critical seconds of confusion of the NVC to break/initiate contact.These locals while on point were fearless & had a type of unusual "formal "greeting they would shout out if they bumped the enemy ,that the SEALs immediately knew they were in for a hard time ie so instead of just saying Oh Hello ,they would say something like, Greetings kind sir.


https://i.imgur.com/vvVP4jA.jpg


Posed pic

https://i.imgur.com/UXh0XI3.jpg

Op combined forces

https://imgur.com/e6wM3px

Tiger Stripe & loaded for Bear

https://i.imgur.com/bde1EQ9.jpeg

Hope info/pic's were of interest ,let me know if you want me to dig up info on the Stoner 63 LMG or if you have any other questions :thumbsup:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bunji

@hamish971 I have been talking to the Colonel & others ,they have just been approved to do the following as a small "official "part of Honoring Capt Ron,first time it has ever been allowed -


On November 6th, the UDT-SEAL association are going to perform a ‘swim out’ ceremony in Ft Pierce, Florida from the the UDT-SEAL museum, where the first Underwater Demolition Teams Frogmen (UDT)were trained & the Navy SEAL Teams grew from . Navy SEAL legend Fred Fritsch is going to swim out from the beach and cast Capt Ron’s ashes under full military honors.

It is amazing how many hoops they have to jump through even over 50 years later due to the secret missions Capt Ron completed on the oNuclear Submarines & the early "Red Cell" type of security missions .
@hamish971 I have a lot of rare photos & Video etc from the battle fields in Nam & "The Spike Teams" ,"Over The Fence"operations from the early days of The Phoenix Program etc ,etc showing the wide variety of field modified weaponry they used,everything from ,but will not post anything l am not given the OK for it & after l work out how to hide faces etc ,in those pictures that need it .

I always found it interesting how back in the early days right up to recent conflicts weaponry & equipment is shared among the various elite Special Forces , the SEALs were given by the SAS (all very unofficially) some of the Original pommy versions of the Hush Puppy ,suppressed 9mm pistols for assassination & ambush Op's & one Capt Ron used had been used to kill a very high ranking SS, Nazi in.

He told how although they were big & unwieldy,after they made some modifications to the suppressor (all while on these floating barge "Heli port / airports" they used in Nam as bases, as they were so far away from any real support bases).They operated almost entirely at night, start of OP's at 10Pm pick up at 4AM, all going well ,transported out by Brown Water Navy in low profile ,heavily armed,specially modified, jet boats & if in heavy contact the Seawolves would be scrambled for dust off etc .They would test these original Hush Puppy before going out on missions by walking up to their posted sentries or small groups talking in the inky blackness & fire them behind their backs into the water & after these modifications they were never detected even at those close quarters . Once again Capt Ron was involved in Suppressed weapons that suited the SEALs more & the birth of the Mk 22 Hushpuppy based off theSmith and Wesson M39, a 9mm Semi Auto handgun, the SEALs used along side & with specially developed ammunition, as part of the program for their modified what they nicknamed the "Swedish K", the 9mm Carl Gustav M/45 submachine gun.They even modified the MK22 pistol grip/magwell to use a 13-round double-stack Browning HP magazine to increase firepower as well as a detachable stock & of course threading the barrel & increasing sight height to allow for the suppressor.

MK22

https://i.imgur.com/l4Ud57N.jpg

SEALs with the unsung hero locals,who working as Combat Interpreters, not only gained important intelligence but also saved the SEAL teams many times, as operating so far behind enemy lines warning of enemy movements near by or the SEALs being hunted was extremely important .In any "official"posed pic like this they are rarely shown carrying the SEAL modified AK's they would use as point man,so if they walked into a ambush or "bumped" NVC they could gain critical seconds of confusion of the NVC to break contact.These locals while on point were fearless & had a type of unusual "formal "greeting they would shout out if they bumped the enemy ,that the SEALs immediately knew they were in for a hard time ie so instead of just saying Oh Hello ,they would say something like greetings kind sir.


https://i.imgur.com/vvVP4jA.jpg


Posed pic

https://i.imgur.com/UXh0XI3.jpg

Op combined forces

https://imgur.com/e6wM3px

Tiger Stripe loaded for Bear

https://i.imgur.com/bde1EQ9.jpeg

Hope info/pic's were of interest ,let me know if you want me to dig up info on the Stoner 63 LMG or if you have any other questions :thumbsup:

---

Great photos and info thanks mate. I have heard of ‘silent’ pistols being used and shared between countries from WW2 all the way till now but I’ve never run into those models, thanks. I know members of SOG carried some kind of suppressed .22 pistol to deal with dogs ect as well.

That’s really interesting about the point man having an AK and alerting the team. It seems indigenous team members were invaluable to special operations teams in Vietnam for many reasons.

I’ve spotted that one of my favourite YouTube channels Forgotten Weapons has a lengthy video on the Stoner 63. I’m excited to watch it tonight but any info on how CPT Yeaw contributed to the development specifically would be super interesting if you knew anything further.

Hamish

How about the Browning Stinger.
Designed, built and used by a few US Marines on Iwo Jima in WW2?

Attachment 172312

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ygec...rgottenWeapons

"I know members of SOG carried some kind of suppressed .22 pistol to deal with dogs etc as well."

@hamish9701 Around a Hunting Camp fire the Colonel told how the early SEALs & MACV-SOG "Spike Teams " used 22 rifles they had modded by accurising,shortening the barrels & suppressing & scoped with a 2X with a German style post & rail reticle .

They used these to Snatch VC "Tax Collectors" who were valued for gathering intelligence to a very high level & sometimes used as double agents .These scumbags were always protected & escorted by well trained NVC ,so as the Colonel explained they would set up a Snatch'em ambush site along a heavy jungle cover ,narrow trail section ,the Tax Collector would normally be placed near the middle of a column of usually 6-8 NVC escorting him on his tax collecting rounds .

The SEALs would mate 4-6 Claymore mines rigged at hip height in the jungle cover, spaced closely together ,they then waited for the column of NVC to enter the kill zone ,the 22 was used by placing the post reticle on the Tax Collectors leg bone, below the knee & shooting him in the knee cap .With no noise it looked like he had fallen after twisting his knee & as he hit the ground the waist high Claymores were set off wiping out the NVC. The NVC guards would be annihilated, with as described by those who used the tactic, the Tax collector looked like a bucket of spaghetti had been dumped on him, he was then safely snatched up & was usually that shocked by being covered in bits of his former guards they would be scared silent ,until they loaded him on a Seawolf chopper to take back to the CIA guys for interrogation. They used what they called the Snatch'em Ambush for years & it was copied by other SF groups around the world.

They always said pigs & Roosters were the worst sentry animals they had to deal with ,as the dogs were always starving & poorly treated, a bit of food thrown to them would see them soon turn sides & wag their tails as they creeped past them , they always said they would have been able to supply a fast food chain with the amount of them they used the Hush Puppy's on .

If you can ,would you post a link to that show on the Stoner 63 as l have never seen a show featuring them ,l do not get on the computer much apart from on sourcing gear for the farm,here & catching up with our girls who live overseas.Thanks :thumbsup:

there must be some interesting 12ga weapons around...mate HAD a metal stocked rem 1100 at one stage and sold it...for the 10-30 yard taked about earlier....deadly.

Ive heard tell of a belt fed 12ga that was used on conveys of vehicles it sprayed roadside and stripped any vege cover darn quickly....there is video been around for 5-6 years now of full auto 12ga made for military purpose and the demo of it is mind blowing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

Ive heard tell of a belt fed 12ga that was used on conveys of vehicles it sprayed roadside and stripped any vege cover darn quickly....there is video been around for 5-6 years now of full auto 12ga made for military purpose and the demo of it is mind blowing.

---

I’m sure there is some mighty funky 12GA contraptions for sure, I wonder how much SF used shotguns during the Vietnam war.. @bunji any stories about them?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bunji

"I know members of SOG carried some kind of suppressed .22 pistol to deal with dogs etc as well."

@hamish9701 Around a Hunting Camp fire the Colonel told how the early SEALs & MACV-SOG "Spike Teams " used 22 rifles they had modded by accurising,shortening the barrels & suppressing & scoped with a 2X with a German style post & rail reticle .

They used these to Snatch VC "Tax Collectors" who were valued for gathering intelligence to a very high level & sometimes used as double agents .These scumbags were always protected & escorted by well trained NVC ,so as the Colonel explained they would set up a Snatch'em ambush site along a heavy jungle cover ,narrow trail section ,the Tax Collector would normally be placed near the middle of a column of usually 6-8 NVC escorting him on his tax collecting rounds .

The SEALs would mate 4-6 Claymore mines rigged at hip height in the jungle cover, spaced closely together ,they then waited for the column of NVC to enter the kill zone ,the 22 was used by placing the post reticle on the Tax Collectors leg bone, below the knee & shooting him in the knee cap .With no noise it looked like he had fallen after twisting his knee & as he hit the ground the waist high Claymores were set off wiping out the NVC. The NVC guards would be annihilated, with as described by those who used the tactic, the Tax collector looked like a bucket of spaghetti had been dumped on him, he was then safely snatched up & was usually that shocked by being covered in bits of his former guards they would be scared silent ,until they loaded him on a Seawolf chopper to take back to the CIA guys for interrogation. They used what they called the Snatch'em Ambush for years & it was copied by other SF groups around the world.

They always said pigs & Roosters were the worst sentry animals they had to deal with ,as the dogs were always starving & poorly treated, a bit of food thrown to them would see them soon turn sides & wag their tails as they creeped past them , they always said they would have been able to supply a fast food chain with the amount of them they used the Hush Puppy's on .

If you can ,would you post a link to that show on the Stoner 63 as l have never seen a show featuring them ,l do not get on the computer much apart from on sourcing gear for the farm,here & catching up with our girls who live overseas.Thanks :thumbsup:

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Yeah that would do the trick alright, I’ve heard a variation of that where instead of using the .22 they placed a c4 charge just far enough away to stun but not kill the prisoner, the rest would be taken care of my the claymores same as the .22 setup. The bloke who tested it placed various sized charges close to himself till he found what worked, would be one hell of a headache after that!

https://youtu.be/vCNw9Z2Q3T0

https://youtu.be/8LVWNGRjD0g

Here’s two videos, one with background on the system and the other shooting the various types, super cool.

@hamish9701 Thanks l had never even heard of him ,he has a video on the Swedish K to which the SEALs rated highly & are great fun to shoot, as like a favorite of mine the Grease Gun ,the Swede K has a easily controllable rate of fire & are sweet to shoot.
@Micky Duck l have shot a Select Fire Auto Remington shotgun, one of the Nam SEALs had in his collection, they are what the 1100 was loosely based off later on .The version the guys used were called the Remington 7188 MK1 & they prefeered them over even the popular bottom ejecting Ithaca, the biggest problem was the shells were based off standard sporting cases & they failed under the hard use initially.The SEALs had the Special Forces Weapons Testing Centers design special rounds with 00 Buck & what they preferred to use on bunkers/mini tunnels hidden under Hooch's was the later XM257 that was a high brass No 4 buck loading , that killed on both ends.

The REMF's still manged to cluster fuck the new development by loading them into bright red duck hunting cases.just what you want when you are fighting that close you have to paint your face green & that with the extra weight /limited ability to carry enough 12G ammo lead to the being passed over by the SEALs. They also tried a 25 flechettes shell ,but the nail as far as wide spread use by the SEALs was already done. The later full Auto shot gun you may be thinking about is the drum fed AA12.


https://i.imgur.com/gWgK3vP.jpg

In the war museum in Canberra you will see Vietnam era SLRs with the barrels shortened and the flash hider sitting just below the gas plug.

The heavy barrel SLR designed for full auto bursts is the L1A2.

The L1A1 would go full auto by putting a ring pull shim under the trigger dear, but that would nullify semi auto function. Standard SLRs used on full auto used to split the stocks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mimms2

Someone might have better recollection than me... was one fulla put a scope on the old "ma deuce" 50 cal, and may have accurised it. Not quite the beginning of sniper tactics, but a step up in range from the old 30 cals.

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Yes I recall. Carlos Hathcock, the “White feather” due to him carrying one in his hat. Somewhat of a Vietnam legend https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...4c24065a08.jpg

From the Osprey MACV SOG book.

"There were distinct advantages to using AKs; they reinforced the impression that an RT seen from a distance was NVA/VC, and ammunition and magazines taken from enemy dead could be used. In a chance encounter with the enemy, the sound of AK shots would not necessarily cause a reaction among other enemy in the area. Additionally, the AK was a very effective and reliable weapon, with good penetration through foliage.

Another Soviet-designed weapon used by some RTs was the RPD light machine gun. This 14.5lb bipod-mounted weapon was one of the lightest machine guns in use. It fired the same ammunition as the AK and used a 100- round belt in a drum magazine. Some had the barrel cut back to the gas tube and the bipod removed, reducing its 40.8in. length by about 8in. and knocking off a few pounds of weight. The shortened RPD provided an RT with considerable firepower while weighing about 11lb less than an M60 machine gun."

Attachment 172393

Attachment 172394



Rhodesian SAS with slightly modified RPDs.

Attachment 172395

Attachment 172396



John Fletcher of the Selous Scouts with one of armourer Phil Morgan's famous chopped RPDs.

Attachment 172397

Attachment 172432

Probably the most successful action out of that shitty episode in history

@hamish9701 That was interesting watch & it was good to see the Modifications Capt Ron fought for being mentioned & then him realizing how much difference they made.Looks like he loved shooting the Stoner as much as l did & you can see what l meant about the recoil control & balance making it the best LMG l have ever fired.

Capt Ron always said getting the magazines redesigned so they centrally balanced the Stoner, saved lives because even wounded the SEALs could stay in the fight, being able to even use it one handed,it was something he was proud of, because he had to fight both the REMF's & Stoners team at first to fet it done.

The short fluted barreled 63A? with the improved gas tube was in his opinion the perfect LMG for their needs & you can see in the group pics many chose it for its light weight & Accurate fire power .The Stoner would keep on working even when caked in mangrove mud ,all they would do is crank the gas port open with a bullet .It was not unusual for the majority of a patrol to carry a Stoner as it was as accurate as a rifle with the firepower of a heavy MG.

That guy in the video made a mistake though ,the 150 Rnd Drum mags were preferred & they made their own carriers for them ,each SEAL carried 3 & a hundred round belt ,what they would do is have the Drum with the complete ammo tray connected & when time for a reload they simply pushed the detente pins & snapped the complete unit on.They showed me pics of the drum mas that had bullet & shrapnel damage that saved the wearer.even when resupplied with belts when they could they reloaded the Drums with them .

Capt Ron was also responsible for the "Tupperware "box mags ,again designed to keep the gun properly balanced & multi purpose ,but also small & strong enough to be loaded into the large 7-62 tin ammo cases & dropped from height by the Seawolves choppers & even in fire fights all they had to do on resupply was open the ammo can & snap on .

While Capt Ron was Platoon Commander of SEAL Team 2 (ST2) ,with his weapons experience , the military came up with a typical REMF idea. ST2 would be tasked with trying to prove /disapprove the reliability problems the Army etc were having with new AR15 in combat conditions,so in other words the Brass wanted to put their lives on the line taking a problematic rifle into extreme combat .So what they would do is carry their chosen weapons into combat & after pick up by the Brown Water Navy they would dunk muddy water,buckets of salty mangrove mud etc on the AR's while they used up unused ammo in the boats on the trip back to base .They even buried them in mangrove mud for a week & after a field strip clean had the good to go .So in the posed "official" pics you see them with AR's in much better condition than the guns they were actually using.

Capt Ron was a hard task master & with his weapons expertise & from the UDT background of having weapons reliable enough to function after exiting Submarines at depth , made sure all his guys kept their weapons in proper working order & what they found with proper cleaning the Ar's were as reliable as any other gun they had & they ended talking them on a lot of missions later,but the CAR-15 was stilled the preferred option for their needs .

Capt Ron also showed the Special Weapons guys & Stoner team the proper care of the Stoner in the field & how they had to run wet,which lead to them being given bigger plastic disposable satchels of lube,that were torn open with your teeth & designed for one handed use.These were designed to fit in the top of those "Tupperware" 150 Rnd magazines so even in remote air supply drops the guys had everything they needed in one hit ,again following Capt Rons preferred multi use systems .

Looking forward to seeing what that guy shows of the Swedish K,l had never even heard of them before meeting the guys & they are a great gun to shoot .

The Charlton rifle was a NZ modification of the SMLE correct?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dicko

The Charlton rifle was a NZ modification of the SMLE correct?

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Yeah the Charlton LMG was originally designed off a SMLE but the short production run was made up of modifying old army stock Lee-Metfords, I think that’s right but my memory isn’t too great. Kiwi ingenuity at its finest

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bunji

@hamish9701 That was interesting watch & it was good to see the Modifications Capt Ron fought for being mentioned & then him realizing how much difference they made.Looks like he loved shooting the Stoner as much as l did & you can see what l meant about the recoil control & balance making it the best LMG l have ever fired.

Capt Ron always said getting the magazines redesigned so they centrally balanced the Stoner, saved lives because even wounded the SEALs could stay in the fight, being able to even use it one handed,it was something he was proud of, because he had to fight both the REMF's & Stoners team at first to fet it done.

The short fluted barreled 63A? with the improved gas tube was in his opinion the perfect LMG for their needs & you can see in the group pics many chose it for its light weight & Accurate fire power .The Stoner would keep on working even when caked in mangrove mud ,all they would do is crank the gas port open with a bullet .It was not unusual for the majority of a patrol to carry a Stoner as it was as accurate as a rifle with the firepower of a heavy MG.

That guy in the video made a mistake though ,the 150 Rnd Drum mags were preferred & they made their own carriers for them ,each SEAL carried 3 & a hundred round belt ,what they would do is have the Drum with the complete ammo tray connected & when time for a reload they simply pushed the detente pins & snapped the complete unit on.They showed me pics of the drum mas that had bullet & shrapnel damage that saved the wearer.even when resupplied with belts when they could they reloaded the Drums with them .

Capt Ron was also responsible for the "Tupperware "box mags ,again designed to keep the gun properly balanced & multi purpose ,but also small & strong enough to be loaded into the large 7-62 tin ammo cases & dropped from height by the Seawolves choppers & even in fire fights all they had to do on resupply was open the ammo can & snap on .

While Capt Ron was Platoon Commander of SEAL Team 2 (ST2) ,with his weapons experience , the military came up with a typical REMF idea. ST2 would be tasked with trying to prove /disapprove the reliability problems the Army etc were having with new AR15 in combat conditions,so in other words the Brass wanted to put their lives on the line taking a problematic rifle into extreme combat .So what they would do is carry their chosen weapons into combat & after pick up by the Brown Water Navy they would dunk muddy water,buckets of salty mangrove mud etc on the AR's while they used up unused ammo in the boats on the trip back to base .They even buried them in mangrove mud for a week & after a field strip clean had the good to go .So in the posed "official" pics you see them with AR's in much better condition than the guns they were actually using.

Capt Ron was a hard task master & with his weapons expertise & from the UDT background of having weapons reliable enough to function after exiting Submarines at depth , made sure all his guys kept their weapons in proper working order & what they found with proper cleaning the Ar's were as reliable as any other gun they had & they ended talking them on a lot of missions later,but the CAR-15 was stilled the preferred option for their needs .

Capt Ron also showed the Special Weapons guys & Stoner team the proper care of the Stoner in the field & how they had to run wet,which lead to them being given bigger plastic disposable satchels of lube,that were torn open with your teeth & designed for one handed use.These were designed to fit in the top of those "Tupperware" 150 Rnd magazines so even in remote air supply drops the guys had everything they needed in one hit ,again following Capt Rons preferred multi use systems .

Looking forward to seeing what that guy shows of the Swedish K,l had never even heard of them before meeting the guys & they are a great gun to shoot .

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Yeah absolutely, looks incredibly smooth. Fantastic weapon, I wonder why its use wasn’t more widespread?

" Fantastic weapon, I wonder why its use wasn’t more widespread? "



@ hamish9701 It was built like a racehorse & Big Army wanted Elephants to survive their inbuilt idiot factor ,it was all proven completely wrong of course, the SEALs used them for "everyday"use right up to the end of the 80's & some say late 90's with 2 saved from decommission in the 90's for High Value target (HVT) operations only, such was the trust in them over other systems & they performed through all the well known SEALs exploits right up to them .

I remember reading about the SLR "bitch gun" from a few different sources. Apparently also referred to as a "break gun" as it was used to break contact through superior firepower if the SAS patrol was engaged when they weren't planning to be, as they were always outnumbered if they weren't the ones doing the ambushing. Allegedly they had a brief friendly fire incident with an American SF unit due to mistaken identity on both sides. After they worked out what was going on and the dust settled, an American officer came over an demand led to see how they were carrying an M2 with them in such thick Bush. Turns out several short barreled 308s on full auto at close range sounds a bit like a .50 ��