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What are the fixing/fastening requirements for E cat safes? I have a timber floor but I can't get access under the part of house where the safe is going to go so it will have to be wall fixings only - 4 x 100mm lag bolts should be heaps but would be good to find out if there are any specific requirements/guidelines
I believe you will still need steel plates bolted through you safe and the floor joists as well as at least two 10mm bolts or coach screws into the wall joists.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shamus
Best way is to ask your local AO as it will be them or their delegate that will inspect and sign it off.
Cheers
Pete
Trouble is there is no crawl space under my rather old house - I can't physically get under there :(
Check out this document, end of page 5. But if you can't get under the floor its going to be interesting on how you are going to get those steel plates bolted on
http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~trevs/F...nts-pol67n.pdf
Reading the pol67n pdf I'm trying to determine if the steel plate is what the safe sits on. I see no where were the steel plate needs to be under the floor
Thanks Trevs that is just what I was looking for. Getting those steel plates bolted on is going to be a bit of a challenge!
A mate had a similar issue wooden floor and less than 6" ground clearance from bottom of joist.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shamus
AO said Steel must go in because crims could chainsaw the safe out in minutes otherwise.
He solved this issue by cutting a trap door between joists beside his safe to allow him to feed the steel under the floor and attach the bolts from inside his house.
After inspection he fixed some runners to the joists, screwed the floor back into position and covered with carpet.
You wouldn't even know it was there and it was signed off by the AO with no issues.
Would this work for you?
Cheers
Pete
Good ideas there P38. Current plan is to cut out piece of floor under where safe is going to go pop in steel plate with though bolts welded to it, put the bits of floor board back with holes already drilled for bolts, lift bloody great big heavy safe onto bolts (holes already drilled in safe bottom) and tighten up nuts. Still wouldn't stop anyone chainsawing it out in minutes though.
Sounds like a good plan Shamus. :thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Shamus
The plates will only slow down a determined thief.
You may also want to install other counter measures, like monitored alarms, Cameras etc.
Won't stop the crims but will give the police a good heads up and leads to work from when tracking them down.
The ass wipe that burgled us was well know to the police and a brief description and photo line up had him identified pretty darn quickly.
Anonymity is your best counter measure..... if no one knows what you got then they are less likely to come looking for stuff.
Cheers
Pete
Hmm reading that document is interesting. Mine is steel plate bolted to joists and all but I welded the nuts onto that plate and bolts go through safe into plate and nuts. Hope this passes.
Here is a better link to that Document from the Police web site
http://www.police.govt.nz/sites/defa...nts-pol67n.pdf
Just a thought, but if you are going to cut into your floor, and you have minimal crawl space, why not cut the flooring out under the safe, say 25mm smaller than the safe footprint, then excavate, box and poor a concrete footing with comes up flush with the top of the floor. Boxing can stay in place permanently. Once it is cured, drill and dynabolt the safe down. Would give the chainsaw thief a hell of a fright. For the police, just take photos of the foundations in progress for evidence as once the safe is in place, you would never know that the footing is there.
You maybe able to coach screw directly into floor joist, but the only person qualified to answer your question is your local arms officer.
That was an option I was thinking about - either way would work well. Will see what the AO has to sayQuote:
Originally Posted by hotbarrels
so I just spoke to my AO on Friday about this very thing , ... yes it must be a "plate" steel under the floor .... when I said the document didn't mention steel thickness , I then asked can I use angle iron , in a pattern that makes up twice the floor area of the safe and he said , no problem , so I will be welding up a section to take two 10mm bolts through the joist into the angle , , and I will take lots of photos so the vetter doesn't have to crawl on their back under my house .....I will be doing it soon and will let you all know how it goes
I used a 3mm Steel plate ,to solve the wooden floor issue.
I think you will find you have to affix safe to "Two surfaces" .. eg the, Back and the Bottom on the safe ...
Regulations say 10mm minimum Bolts ... my A.O suggested 12mm ... so I upped the size of the bolts and the doubled the amount necessary bolts required .
Extra security measures like ensuring all windows ,doors,locks work correctly and can be "Locked securely"
Other measures like a CCTV security camera... Monitored alarm system ..A LARGE DOG ... or NOSEY Neighbour .. (who thinks he's a GuardDog lol)
All Stack the odds in your favour for security .
A very good solution too. :thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by hotbarrels
Cheers
Pete
one of the main probs I have with nosey neighbours is on one side , I have 3 old girls that are suffering a bit of dementia ..... last week I went out to cut some kindling for the fire, one of the old biddies came up to the six foot fence and yelled she was gunna call the cops .... I told her its me you silly twat , I have lived next door to you for 14years ..... she just kept on screaming to call the police .!!!! .... hopefully if she ever catches someone who isn't ment to be there , that she actually does remember to ring the police !!!!!
interesting thread.
Seems to differ to who you ask and what you read. Talked to a mate and he mentioned the 'plate' must cover 3 joists.
Asked if 2 runs of angle iron covering 3 joists with 2 bolts into safe floor each would be ok, he seemed to think yes.
Will ask one of the AO's at the club tomorrow night.
also , if I remember rightly it just says bolted in two places as in wall and floor ... I don't think it says you must have two bolts in each ...... I will go find the regs and report back..
ok so it says "should be bolted a minimum of two surfaces , one of which shall be the floor , bolt shafts to be a minimum of 10mm in diameter and when bolted into concrete , expanding or chemical settin g bolts must be used,
where the cabinet is bolted to a wooden floor it shall be through bolted to a steel plate which exceeds the floor area of the cabinet and is retained on at least 2 florr joists ....
there is a little more but this is the minimum ... anything you do over and above this ,is up to you ... if you do the bare minimum then it is fine , .. I will do more just for my own peace of mind , (try chainsawing my floor you fukker) ..... its too bad man traps are illegal ....
My AO told me it had to be 6mm steel plate under the floor, same as the safes minimum required thickness....
no where in the regs does it say 6mm
but in saying that , .... if the AO is adamant that he or she wants that then you cant really afford to piss them off ....... but that aint the minimum ....if it does say 6mm plate , I must have missed it ,,, or maybe there is a new amendment out ....
would love to know if im wrong ...
when i put my E cat safe in back in about 1997 the Tauranga AO was adamant that 6mm was used on the base plate being 6mm mild steel and of coarse larger then the area of the safe. interesting i see above for concrete fixing chemset or expanding bolts i have never been allowed to use dynabolts they simply stated it will not comply and thats from three different AO. Interesting stuffQuote:
Originally Posted by stumpy
the regs I got off the police website , have a number up the top right "POL 67N "
I would have thought that the min would be 6mm as well .... but its written in black and white in their own regs .... My local AO said its ok to use the angle and when quizzed about thickness , just said nice and sturdy ....
it must be open to interpretation to give the AO lee way on the insulation. as long as it is deemed to be stout application. if it heavy enough angle iron it will spreed the load across the floor joist any way and hinder a fair attempt to lever the safe off or through the floor. they used to be anal about not having rounded edges where the safe contacts the wall and floor as not to allow any tools to gain leverage on the safe.
I hate the way that the law is open to interpretation .... the application of the law I understand .... but not the hard and fast requirements of fixing , that should be as easy as 123 ......