Fun with 22s - wee ammo test

Recently I put my Lithgow LA101 into a laminated stock - they reputedly shoot better in this one than the synthetic. My thoughts were that factory recommended action scew tension of 1.5 Nm (13.7 in lbs) was set for the synthetic stock as this is a very light value. In most cases a laminated stock will stand (and "like") quite a bit screw tension.

So today wasn't too bad here for a quick test. The rifle definitely responded well to more screw tension and when I got to 20 in lbs the attached 10 shot group with the Eley club shows the result. I know this batch of Club to be exceptional and save it for tests like this.

Recently there has been a bit of Norma Tac-22 in the shops and I got a couple of bricks to test. The results speak for themselves, it is very good ammo, but just not held to the same tolerances as a top performing ammo. This is illustrated by both group size and distribution, most rounds forming a tight cluster (like the Club) but a few looser rounds hanging off.

Attachment 219116

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tentman

Recently I put my Lithgow LA101 into a laminated stock - they reputedly shoot better in this one than the synthetic. My thoughts were that factory recommended action scew tension of 1.5 Nm (13.7 in lbs) was set for the synthetic stock as this is a very light value. In most cases a laminated stock will stand (and "like") quite a bit screw tension.

So today wasn't too bad here for a quick test. The rifle definitely responded well to more screw tension and when I got to 20 in lbs the attached 10 shot group with the Eley club shows the result. I know this batch of Club to be exceptional and save it for tests like this.

Recently there has been a bit of Norma Tac-22 in the shops and I got a couple of bricks to test. The results speak for themselves, it is very good ammo, but just not held to the same tolerances as a top performing ammo. This is illustrated by both group size and distribution, most rounds forming a tight cluster (like the Club) but a few looser rounds hanging off.

Attachment 219116

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I tested 9 different brands of .22 match/standard ammo a couple of weekends ago in my Lithgow and fired two
Cards for each to prove consistency

The rws target rifle came out no1 . The Eley club and Norma were in the mid
Range and the Aguila was last by a long shot.

Second equal and third was the trusty cci standard. It was well ahead of
Most of the Match ammo tested including rws club and sk and others.

Interesting :)
Will have to try adjusting the torque on my laminated Lithgow. Till now I've just used the factory recommended setting.

I've also just been trying the Tac-22 and it's certainly performing well above its price point. Well inside minute of rabbit head @50m

Quote:

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Originally Posted by omark

I tested 9 different brands of .22 match/standard ammo a couple of weekends ago in my Lithgow and fired two
Cards for each to prove consistency

The rws target rifle came out no1 . The Eley club and Norma were in the mid
Range and the Aguila was last by a long shot.

Second equal and third was the trusty cci standard. It was well ahead of
Most of the Match ammo tested including rws club and sk and others.

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Yeah - 22 accuracy is more related to good luck with batches or lots of ammo. I went back out with some CCI I have here and shot the following target - all t10 shot groups at 48M.

Attachment 219117

This target highlights the batch issue, I gave away the rest of the brick of the CCI target cause it was crap, and the very old CCI HP is better but still nearly twice the group size of an excellent batch of S&B subsonic hp (which isn't usually up to much).

One very interesting thing is the harmonic which is causing the vertical stringing with the new box CCI versus horizontal stringing with the older CCI hp.

The batch of Eley Club I got was pretty average honestly. Double the price of the "Action" I was using with worse accuracy and SD.

Some nice groups there. Rimfires are such odd creatures. After a bit of hassle, I was excited to get my hands on some high end Eley rounds and they turned out to group worse than CCI Subsonic (which admittedly are very good in my rifle).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by omark

I tested 9 different brands of .22 match/standard ammo a couple of weekends ago in my Lithgow and fired two
Cards for each to prove consistency

The rws target rifle came out no1 . The Eley club and Norma were in the mid
Range and the Aguila was last by a long shot.

Second equal and third was the trusty cci standard. It was well ahead of
Most of the Match ammo tested including rws club and sk and others.

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Hey how about posting up your results either pics or group sizes, helps us all learn something

Precision accuracy tricky to pin down with 22 ammos. I recall a batch of PMC (black packet) Match ammo that averaged 0.69" for four consecutive sub 1.0" groups at 100 meters from a little Norinco Em332. Superb! Went back to get some more and it was shite.

CCI quite a consistent performer for the money. The groups below are from one of the very accurate Marlin model 60 semiautos I had - stock. Top line is three groups - two fives and a three - averaging 0.34" at 50m with CCI Standard. Bottom line is couple of groups with CCI subsonic - averaging 0.32". CCI may not deliver peak performance of match ammos but it does offer quite good consistency across batches, and that's a plus when plinking..

Attachment 219124

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tentman

Hey how about posting up your results either pics or group sizes, helps us all learn something

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Unfortunately I left them in the clubrooms but will collect them next time I am out

Quote:

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Originally Posted by omark

Unfortunately I left them in the clubrooms but will collect them next time I am out

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Hey @omark if you could also comment on the accuracy of your Lithgow compared with the common "match rifles" that would also be very interesting. Cheers

Did the same thing yesterday arvo,
given a couple of fancy boxes of 0.22 to try out but forget what they were called and nothing was special about them.

With Norma Tac-22,
Tac-22 is OK but they are a bit greasy and a bit smokey (I don't mind this part),
not sure about grouping but I could hit my self made target at 50m, 80m, and 100m pretty constantly with tac-22

at above 120m and above range... I seem only could hit them with CCI


Attachment 219156

@Tentman have you got groups with other torque settings ?

Further to post above, I was getting really excited about this group till I walked up to the target and spotted the one hiding in the black!
Still pretty happy with both my second Lithgow and the ammo.

Attachment 219158

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Snap 4T

Did the same thing yesterday arvo,
given a couple of fancy boxes of 0.22 to try out but forget what they were called and nothing was special about them.

With Norma Tac-22,
Tac-22 is OK but they are a bit greasy and a bit smokey (I don't mind this part),
not sure about grouping but I could hit my self made target at 50m, 80m, and 100m pretty constantly with tac-22

at above 120m and above range... I seem only could hit them with CCI


Attachment 219156

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75 or 90mm diameter abouts gong huh - even at 100mm at 100 thats good shooting with those grades of ammo.

F Class John posted a ytube of his results at a 22 FClass 40 shot match - his score was 200 and a bunch of Xs - target was a 2"X and a 4" bull at 200 yards and 199 at 300 yards but he didn't give target dimensions for the 300Y. The thing is his rifle and gear would be the thick end of NZ$10K

RWS special match @ 100Attachment 219174Attachment 219175Attachment 219176bit of wind.
Good stuff,$19.90 it should be
Tac 22 has the same headstamp.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by madjon_

RWS special match @ 100Attachment 219174Attachment 219175Attachment 219176bit of wind.
Good stuff,$19.90 it should be
Tac 22 has the same headstamp.

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Hey John - nice shooting at 100, are you in the Nelson group that shoot "proper" 22 Benchrest? The Tac-22 is an RWS product but no-one seems to know for sure what other RWS product it's equivalent to!

According to postings on rimfirecentral, Norma TAC-22 is RWS Match, whilst Norma Match-22 is RWS Special Match. Both out of the same RUAG line so maybe the headstamp is the only difference.

The Yanks rate the TAC-22 as a good plinking ammo.

TAC-22 is available at my local and I was going to grab a couple of bricks but after research I flagged it away and stocked up on RWS Special Match (yeah bloody pricey) which I have also found shoots very well at 100yds.

Grabbed another brick of CCI SV at the same time. Love that stuff. Just cannot get over how well it shoots in any of my rifles given the price. A bit flier prone though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bagheera

@Tentman have you got groups with other torque settings ?

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Well I did, but couldn't for the life of me figure out what I'd done with them. Had another look this arvo and all became clear . . . . I'd pasted another target on top of it - Doh!

So in the interest of science I shot it again, results were similar but not quite as easy to interpret as the first one.

Attachment 219217

So, ammo Eley Club. Distance 48M. Generally my Lithgow doesn't do "cold bore shots" but it did today. So first group at 12.5 inlbs 0.543 excluding the CBS. I shot another group at this setting and it went 0.310. Ignoring that as a outlier increased to 17 inlbs 0.539 was the result. Went to 20 inlbs and shot a 0.312, nice round group. Up 25 in lbs and 0.816 with pronounced vertical stringing. Went back down to 20 in lbs and oops a flier opened it up to 0.695. Rest again properly to 20 in lbs by loosening it right off and going "up" to 20 in lbs using 3 stages. Last group, normal service resumed and a 0.296 group.

My learnings in this:

Always get to your chosen torque setting going up in stages
Look for round even groups with no stringing (even if they may be bigger than groups with stringing)
All 22 ammo will have fliers, the trick is to know your ammo and rifle and be honest with yourself.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tentman

Hey John - nice shooting at 100, are you in the Nelson group that shoot "proper" 22 Benchrest? The Tac-22 is an RWS product but no-one seems to know for sure what other RWS product it's equivalent to!

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Yes.
The tac 22 pills are different color to rws sm.
CCI standard v has a nasty habjt; pop 10.1,pop 10.1,pop 10,bang 8 at 12 o'clock.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tentman

Hey @omark if you could also comment on the accuracy of your Lithgow compared with the common "match rifles" that would also be very interesting. Cheers

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It’s a wee step down from dedicated target rifles I’ve shot such as anshultz and walther and some of the bsa mk2s that I’ve shot but not by much. I consider it to be a multi purpose rifle. Definitely more accurate than the cz s and the tikkas my mates shooting. I had to torque mine to over 20 pounds to get it to shoot. Also it improves with a clean every 300 odd rounds.
I use boretec rim fire and foul with 10 rounds.

It’s such a shame lithgow don’t do southpaws in their centre fire range as I would
Jump at the chance if they did in both .223 and .308.

I am a real Lithgow fan though….so slightly bias…

Quote:

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Originally Posted by madjon_

Yes.
The tac 22 pills are different color to rws sm.
CCI standard v has a nasty habjt; pop 10.1,pop 10.1,pop 10,bang 8 at 12 o'clock.

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My findings exactly with the CCI.

This is PMC Match through a Norinco EM332. Not the most accurate rifle at 50m - the 0.1" group below was not common - but EM a laser at 100m. Four consecutive groups averaging 0.69" - all of them under the inch. Little rifle cost $247 and was tested using its shop Huntsman 3-9x40 scope. Had to laugh!! Alot of match rifles would not beat it at 100m:

Attachment 219232

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mudgripz

CCI quite a consistent performer for the money. The groups below are from one of the very accurate Marlin model 60 semiautos I had - stock. Top line is three groups - two fives and a three - averaging 0.34" at 50m with CCI Standard. Bottom line is couple of groups with CCI subsonic - averaging 0.32". CCI may not deliver peak performance of match ammos but it does offer quite good consistency across batches, and that's a plus when plinking.

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I recently setup my Savage for CCI Standards and was getting 1" groups @ 100m without really trying hard (rifle could undoubtedly do better with a better shooter!). Although if you believe strelok the MV was down around 960fps. Anyhoo took it out on it's first bunny hunt with this ammo, I was happy with the accuracy (hits @ 120m) but the lethality at all ranges was crap - I had a lot of hits but animals with enough life in them to disappear into nearby holes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by vulcannz

Although if you believe strelok the MV was down around 960fps. Anyhoo took it out on it's first bunny hunt with this ammo, I was happy with the accuracy (hits @ 120m) but the lethality at all ranges was crap - I had a lot of hits but animals with enough life in them to disappear into nearby holes.

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Should be around 80 ft.lb, 5-10x more than enough power to kill a rabbit with a head shot(!), although that FPS sounds a little high. If not head shots, then yeah, Standard Velocity are round nose so don't cause that much damage. CCI Subsonic have similar ballistics and kill better (also happen to shoot better in my CZ).

Attachment 219248
Shot by GS evaluating for consistency as heaps available. Good price too. All 5 shot group at 25 yards.

Tentman & I were chatting about rimfires and the LA101 was mentioned. My wife shot the attached target with her Lithgow yesterday - 50 metres outdoors with some twitchy wind increasing steadily all morning. Bulls are 1/2" O.D. - 100 shots - 4 lot numbers of SK Long Range. SK/Lapua is very scarce around here these days and we are pretty much buying anything we see and hoping that it shoots OK. The action of this rifle is bedded, including about 1" of the barrel. No pillars which really won't do much with the plastic trigger guards on these rifles. I run both my LA101's at 1.5NM screw torque. Groups are usually pretty round and consistent so I haven't really experimented with settings. I recently replaced the scope with a Meopta Optika 5 in 4-20 with the BDC3 reticle - Nice scope which suits the LA101 well.

https://i.imgur.com/G8hWfGI.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/152NtOh.jpg