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So I really like the sound of this cartridge as a in between calibre and wife/children's gun. My issue is I am not a reloader and am I going to find a few years down the track ammo is obsolete.
I may also be stuck with a rifle that can't be sold or adapted to much else very easily
What are your thoughts?
Judging by the numbers of Howa Mini 6.5 Grendel being brought with confiscation money I would say it is safe to say there will be plenty of factory ammunition available in the future. Recently while out on the range four of the fire rifles being sighted in were 6.5 Grendel. More importantly why aren't you reloading? Such a calming, therapeutic activity.
I don't think its really dying - I don't think its ever really taken off.
Personally I think its going to remain slightly obscure. Not to say its going away anytime soon, but I don't see it becoming much more mainstream then it currently is.
I would guess that there are more 6.5G bolt guns here in NZ compared to the AR variant we had an option of. So I'd say there will be a steady following from those who like it for it's attributes and our importers would continue to support. I'm a reloader and have plenty of brass, so I'm cool for a while.
Its been around for more years already than most realize. I don't think anyone can see into the future to truly answer your question.
If Sako were to bring out a variant in their extra small (223) sized carbonlite its place would be cemented.
The whole thing of the grendel is to be in a short light rifle. If you use a 308 size action then you're so much better off with a 260Rem.
The main drawback is the low velocity making it marginal to get bullet expansion . Again, a 24" barrel is flattering but the forte of this cartridge is the 16 incher.. so there is probably a bit more specialized bullet development to be done by the manufacturers I think.
The American market will no doubt drive factory ammo supply. Have a look at the 65grendel forum and make your own call.
Like Matthias, I reload and have a good supply of brass so am sweet for the life of this barrel. But I didnt commit to it till I saw factory ammo on the shelves. I've used hornady SST and had a feeling it wasn't expanding well enough. I've tried a few rounds of the black box ELD-M which is supposed to be for target use but is seemed to expand well. Made a hole about 2/3 of what the 7mm08 does.
The other thing to take into account is trajectory , which is more loopy than most are used to. It means you need to use a rangefinder if you want to shoot past 100-150m compared to 150-200m for a 308 class cartridge.
It's not a good cartridge for "youth" . You need a good average level of stalking and shooting ability .
It is a fantastic cartridge for youth & nearly everything else compared to a 223 :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagheera
@Steelisreal and I decimated a mob of pigs at the weekend. They were 200m away and I used a 20" Grendel, shooting 100gr NBT's at 2800fps. Contrary to what Bagheera is saying, the trajectory of that is not at all loopy - it's easily on par with a 308, inside of standard hunting ranges. And the pigs all dropped on the spot so I would not have necessarily been better off with the extra energy of a 308 or speed of a 260 either. More foot pounds or an extra 300fps couldn't have made them any deader any quicker.
Bigger animal, longer range, yeah maybe I'd have been undergunned. But Grendel has a niche in NZ, at least for me. I'd have been hesitant about taking the same shots with a 223, yet I didn't fancy carrying around a larger, heavier, short action rifle. Grendel gives ~50% more energy over a 223 and fits in the same small packages. Perfect.
Admittedly, factory ammo choices are limited and a bit meh. SST's are hit and miss in terms of accuracy for many and velocity is handicapped a) for the sake of AR's gas systems and b) because it's all 123gr. Reload for it in a bolt gun and it really comes alive.
Doubt it's going anywhere any time soon.
I looked pretty hard at a Grendel as a replacement for a 223. It made a lot of sense to me in terms of having considerably more energy than a 223 (for deer) but still still had the advantage of fitting in an extra short action. In the end the lack of rifle options put me off. The Howa mini action looks pretty good but has some features which aren’t ideal. The CZ527 is also appealing but wood/blue has its disadvantages. Not to mention that there’s no CZ Grendels in the country right now and no accurate ETA...
Went with a different caliber in the end. But like @Bagheera mentioned, if other manufacturers get on board with the Grendel in a 223 length action, it’s popularity is assured
Grendel is only a monster compared to the 223. I hope no one is recommending 233 for a first deer rifle. 308 is a bit meh in trajectory compared to almost every other popular hunting cartridge. A 20“ barrel would improve the performance of the Grendel well. But you’d be better off ballistically and for weight and size using an 18“ 308 and you could run 120gr bullets To reduce recoil.
Looking at factory rifles, Matthias and I have custom rifles based on sako vixen actions. These were originally 222 then 223 but they made a version in 6mm PPC which never really established itself possibly because PPC were really only popular in bench rest and I suspect the feed was never very good. Mine fits 5 in the mag but only feeds 3. I came to the same conclusion as @7.62 regarding howa and CZ although they would both be just fine for many.
I like it in theory but practically I think you are better off with a creedmoor, always easier to load a cartridge down than up. I think the lighter factory loadings would be similar recoil to the hot Grendel ones. With a suppressor should be able to be shot by anyone.
I think the 6.5 Grendal is one of those that cartridges that is all caught up in this recent flood of new cartridges. It seems like every month or two I get a gun magazine with the new "game changer" cartridge on the cover. I suspect it will last for a while but perhaps fade out at some point.
Accuflite Arms in the US have built something similar.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagheera
https://accuflitesports.com/product/...e-6-5-grendel/
A 6mmGrinch or similar on a Sako XS action would be a win for me!
As Bagheera mentions, in a custom micro action they are a neat combo. I originally got my drive from watching Norway develop his 6.5G built on a Sako PPC and being a Sako fan went down that path and love it. Yes we are limited by factory offerings, but remember anything in a 7.62x39 can be easily rebarreled to 6.5G and away you go on factory ammo or handload if you want to get the best. I actually shot a mean little group with Hornady factory ammo the other day, that I bought for shits & giggs.
Attachment 120350
The Grendel is such an accurate little round, no surprises given it lineage
This 5 shot group was not uncommon with a load 1/2 a grain under book max, just plucked it from mid air :cool:
https://i1004.photobucket.com/albums...psq4xah7bx.jpg
From one of these...
https://i1004.photobucket.com/albums...psrgzibvpb.jpg
Another 5 shot group, factory ammo even :)
https://i1004.photobucket.com/albums...psl4jbzxpm.jpg
Waiting for a valuation before I give it away...:oh noes:
id have 6.5 Grendel in a heartbeat😎 if howa or cz made a lefty mini action in it 🤬😤😭
Just picked up a barrelled action from Gunworks now I'm just waiting on the stock bits, in the short term I'm going to chuck my strike eagle from my AR on it to see how it goes. Then hopefully shoot a deer with it on the brother in laws farm :D
The Grendel isn’t dying. However things are dying from my Grendel...
Attachment 120463
Attachment 120462
Attachment 120464
No problems with 300m expansion - 123gr ELDM:
Attachment 120465
I have a headache. Why do people keep posting pictures of cloverleaf groups about 4 inches off the bullseye?
My cz 527 carbine in 6.5 grendel is still my favorite rig.. cant see me parting with it any time soon
Because if you put it on the point of aim you can destroy you point of aim :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Cordite
Also it might be zeroed at 200 but shot at 100 :)
or it might be zeroed at 200 but shot at 20 too :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwi Greg
The only point of any of these 'wee' cartridges is if the rifle is the same size. Very few are.Otherwise you may as well have a 308/ 7 08. And as for the comment about rebarreling a 7.62x39 why would you do that? Just use that. I have a Howa Mini action with CF stock in 7.62 x 39. 5 pounds all up. Lovely and killing big stuff consistently out to 250m with it. I think with all these wee ones they are a heap of fun and if used within their limits, right projectile etc etc they are fantastic performers. Great for first timers and youth too.
To give you headache?:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Cordite
Nice, what velocity is it flinging the 123's at mate?Quote:
Originally Posted by FRST
Around 2550 I believeQuote:
Originally Posted by GWH
The latest issue of Firearms News just landed on my desk and in it was a long article on the 15th anniversary of 6.5 Grendal. Part of the article detailed a new AR Alexander Arms in 6.5 Grendal has released and the other half was about the development of the cartridge 15+ years ago. One comment made was that in a discussion among manufacturers, sales of 6.5 Grendal rifles have been brisk the past two years so it appears the round is here to stay.
Sounds good. Definitely think it will be my next rifle I think. Should fill the gap between 223 and the 708. Most likely based I the visa mini action. Think I will get rid of that bottom metal.
@FRST IS that the rifle that was for sale on here a little while back? Looks wicked
Yeah she is, I was struggling to find funds for my Africa trip. But I’ve been now so she’s staying in the armoury.Quote:
Originally Posted by Remmodel7
If you can only afford one or two rifles, or none of the mini actions available tickle your fancy, then yes, go right ahead and get a short action 7mm08 and call it done.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiawatha
Why rebarrel a 7.62x39? Because if money is not necessarily the primary concern, but maximising what you can do with a mini action is, then Grendel is the answer. Same if not more energy, better bullet selection with better BC's, inherently accurate etc... If you're happy shooting animals at 250m with x39, there's no reason 350m isn't doable with Grendel - and target shooting out to 1000m is possible too, if you're into that kind of thing. Whereas the x39 bleeds energy quickly, or can be quite lacking in the accuracy department, leading many to consider it a 200m cartridge - and it tends to drop subsonic at less than 600m.
6.8x39mm could be interesting.....same arguments/strong points in its favour......some good projectiles out there now too.
Hmm now I want one. CZ carbine?
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CZ got to be rebarelled from 7.62x39 unless the nz importer started to get some in?
The Howa mini works really well and is cheaper.
The last I heard was that the next CZ shipment is due in December but there are no Grendels aboard. Kilwell weren’t able to give any ETA for when they are due, that was a couple of months agoQuote:
Originally Posted by Friwi
I might have to build another Grendel, have heaps & heaps of brass, Redding bushing dies & a couple of hundred loaded rounds, ex AR15s....:(
.....And you have a donor Sako PPC IIRC :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwi Greg
