Thread: Gun too short.

Originally Posted by Proudkiwi

You clearly have a MUCH lower threshold than I as to what qualifies as stupid.

Let’s put his question into context.

‘Yes your honour, I know the legal drink drive limit is 400mcg (yes 250mcg blah, blah) but I only blew 415. Surely that means I should be okay.’

Or

‘Yes your honour, I know theft is not legal, but it was only $15. That’s so close to nothing that I should be okay right?’

Or

‘Yes your honour, I know rape is illegal, but I only used 15mm of my penis. That’s so close to nothing that I should be let go right?’

Actually, you know what, you’re right it’s not a stupid question. It’s a fucking stupid question. If I was a mod I would kill it. Stupid shit like that on a public forum about a retarded setup (I mean really, a pistol grip only on a short shotgun?? WTF!!!) does us all no good!

I'm sure that if you were in a position of power, you'd kill a lot of things that went against your approval. As for a short gun with a pistol grip, it probably wouldn't do you good. In the army and police force I work for, we even had 7.62 full auto 13" barrel machine guns(R2) with pistol grips and folding stocks. They did the good guys a world of good in vehicles and for those parachuting into shit. You're right though, it was a fucking stupid question. Won't happen again.

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

sticking a muzzle brake on a shotgun.......do you not like your hearing or something????? by wanting something that short I asume you looking to use as bail gun and want it as easy to carry as posible???? find a 20" barrel and swap........ the novalty of pistol grip will wear off pretty darn quickly a .12ga has a fair old boot to them and not being shoulder mounted can be problamatic.

I was planning on duct taping a sofa cushion over each ear to deaden the sound...just like I always do when shooting a gun.

Originally Posted by gimp

Just don’t put a pistol grip only on a shotgun because it’s dumb as heck

Righto. Thanks for that, explains it all. What on earth was I thinking..?

keep ya hair on chap,I was trying to give some warning /advice based on personal experience......yes Ive fired a .12ga one handed and from the hip on a few occasions over the years (we are all young dumb and full of c#% at some stage) Ive split the web between thumb and forefinger twice doing so (slow learner).... Ive also owned and used shotties sawn off to JUST above legal length 780mm infact.... we used it in the scrub for wallabies...it was fun to carry,killed things well as I had put choke back into it so it was full choke patterning BUT it was as loud as hell and hurt ears no end .it also induced a flinch very quickly as it was just far too loud. we ended up sticking a hunk of pvc pipe over the end of it to try to take noise a bit further away....... it wasnt what Id call a user friendly weapon. sure you can wear earmuffs,but what about your dogs??? if not using it as a bail gun...why would you want to have it so short???? maybe you are shepherding on marakowhai station and are worried about them huge pigs getting ahold of your stock dogs......buy a rossi lever action in .44 mag and be done with it....or better still a cheap 7.62x39mm norinco and suppress it,still short and light but it wont stuff your ears. you can shoot the odd red/fallow/goat or pig out to 150 yards with ease.....Ive done the shotgun thing with pigs having grown up around Tokoroa pig hunters...a rifle is much much better.

At the end of the day though, this is still better than Telly, and its informative !

Originally Posted by Square22

I thought they were? A semi permanent muzzle device like a muzzle brake that is either loctite on or pinned is acceptable? That's why ase utra and OD bore lock cans are great for ar-15's.

No, absolutely not. And anyone telling you otherwise will land you in hot water my friend.

As police have said in their "Measuring length of MSSA Firearms classification approval" document:

"The length of any firearm is measured without any “attachments” (whether or not “permanently” attached (e.g. welding, pinned)), such as flash-hiders, silencers, muzzle brakes, or barrel extensions. In the case of rifled firearms (such as rifles and Pistols), barrel length will be determined by measuring from the muzzle to the bolt face (excluding anything attached beyond the muzzle), this means that the chamber is included in the measurement of the barrel, not just the rifled portion. The exception is for revolvers in which barrel length is determined by the barrel only and excluding the chamber. "

https://www.police.govt.nz/sites/def..._-approval.pdf

Originally Posted by timattalon

I agree all your examples shown are correct in that small amounts are still illegal. What I was getting at and what you may have missed, is questions that are asked and answered lead to more information prior to making a decision. I will use your second one as an example.

‘Yes your honour, I know theft is not legal, but it was only $15. That’s so close to nothing that I should be okay right?’ He is not asking AFTER he has done this, he is asking "Your honour, if I take the $15 will I still get into trouble?" The answer is yes he will then he now knows not to take the $15. Whether he should have known before or not is questionable and a smart person would probably figure that out rather easily. But it is still better that he asked rather than make presumptions.

He is also asking if his idea of a solution would be acceptable in that situation (again probably not) but I will concede it would have been smarter to ask an AO rather than the internet....

like the day I fired someone, followed all the rules, for stealing $6.70. At the multi thousand $ PG, the mediated asked me, before the mediation started, if you fired someone for stealing just $6.90, there better be a lot more to it, or it's going to cost you a lot of money! Alright for an employee to steal from you twice? Nope I won! But black and white fades in the best of people!

Originally Posted by Jexla

No, absolutely not. And anyone telling you otherwise will land you in hot water my friend.

As police have said in their "Measuring length of MSSA Firearms classification approval" document:

"The length of any firearm is measured without any “attachments” (whether or not “permanently” attached (e.g. welding, pinned)), such as flash-hiders, silencers, muzzle brakes, or barrel extensions. In the case of rifled firearms (such as rifles and Pistols), barrel length will be determined by measuring from the muzzle to the bolt face (excluding anything attached beyond the muzzle), this means that the chamber is included in the measurement of the barrel, not just the rifled portion. The exception is for revolvers in which barrel length is determined by the barrel only and excluding the chamber. "

https://www.police.govt.nz/sites/def..._-approval.pdf

What firearms require barrel length measurement? I'm aware of overall length but not barrel length in the legislation.

Originally Posted by Jexla

No, absolutely not. And anyone telling you otherwise will land you in hot water my friend.

As police have said in their "Measuring length of MSSA Firearms classification approval" document:

"The length of any firearm is measured without any “attachments” (whether or not “permanently” attached (e.g. welding, pinned)), such as flash-hiders, silencers, muzzle brakes, or barrel extensions. In the case of rifled firearms (such as rifles and Pistols), barrel length will be determined by measuring from the muzzle to the bolt face (excluding anything attached beyond the muzzle), this means that the chamber is included in the measurement of the barrel, not just the rifled portion. The exception is for revolvers in which barrel length is determined by the barrel only and excluding the chamber. "

https://www.police.govt.nz/sites/def..._-approval.pdf

Are you sure this has not been reconsidered? When was this dated?

The reason I ask is because of this link from late last year:

https://kiwigunblog.wordpress.com/20...inimum-length/

Is someone from the kiwigunblog on here that could explain this a bit better?

Originally Posted by gadgetman

What firearms require barrel length measurement? I'm aware of overall length but not barrel length in the legislation.

Pistols on a B endorsement have to have a minimum four inch barrel.
That's not in law, but is something to do with the agreement between the cops and Pistol NZ I think.
There's a couple of approved pistols with barrels under four inches, but are approved because they are only designed for ISSF type target shooting.

@Jexla also https://www.pistolnz.org.nz/blog/759038

See what is said at the top of that link.

Not trying to start an argument at all, just trying to clarify. I think your document may be the 'old' one that the blog refers to which the measuring interpretation was later changed?

It makes sense to me as removing the stock (but not buffer tube) from an AR-15 rifle is probably faster than removing a lot of muzzle devices and it would also reduce the length. You would lose the detent pin if you removed the stock but the rifle would still be able to be fired.

If I had my way licensed firearms owners could have what they want, short/long auto/semi pistol/revolver etc. At the end of the day it's only 15mm and who gives a F**** But that's the law. Personally i think the punishment should be to fire a case of ammo (high velocity slugs) in a concrete room. Shotguns with pistol grips = F***ED hand.

Originally Posted by 300CALMAN

If I had my way licensed firearms owners could have what they want, short/long auto/semi pistol/revolver etc. At the end of the day it's only 15mm and who gives a F**** But that's the law. Personally i think the punishment should be to fire a case of ammo (high velocity slugs) in a concrete room. Shotguns with pistol grips = F***ED hand.

You are one angry cat.

Originally Posted by Jexla

No, absolutely not. And anyone telling you otherwise will land you in hot water my friend.

As police have said in their "Measuring length of MSSA Firearms classification approval" document:

"The length of any firearm is measured without any “attachments” (whether or not “permanently” attached (e.g. welding, pinned)), such as flash-hiders, silencers, muzzle brakes, or barrel extensions. In the case of rifled firearms (such as rifles and Pistols), barrel length will be determined by measuring from the muzzle to the bolt face (excluding anything attached beyond the muzzle), this means that the chamber is included in the measurement of the barrel, not just the rifled portion. The exception is for revolvers in which barrel length is determined by the barrel only and excluding the chamber. "

https://www.police.govt.nz/sites/def..._-approval.pdf

They should be out there policing the traffic, or arguing about the Talmud.

@Spanners Are there any pistol nz staff / kiwi gun blog authors on the forum ?