How to get your rifle to shoot less than MOA

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Originally Posted by Steveh054

Please note in my original post ....I said "most people can't do it consistently"

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Was the "all you guys that...." that distracted me from your "most people"....
Please note my left-right is messed up as pic has rotated.
At the shoot with norway we ran some.different drills. I made some stupid mistakes on some.earlier drills bit aftdr a quiet word to myself comfortably put 3 shots on the 1/2 moa target in the know your limits drill. Gimp was there and saw. Its all factory. 7mm08 is much the same as 223 in terms of groups. 7mm mag has off and on days and is currently getting a new barrel

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Originally Posted by Steveh054

Does it really need to be Dairy Cow Shit or will shit from other Bovine types be OK?

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I can provide some for the test :)

Does the rifle have off and on days or the shooter?

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Originally Posted by Toby

Does the rifle have off and on days or the shooter?

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Both

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Originally Posted by distant stalker

The two on left were 5 including adjustments. Others are three. Wifes tikka 223.
http://i1096.photobucket.com/albums/...2751573655.jpg

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This is peeeerfect. Look at the diffferent POI of each group. If you overlay them all, do they still make a ~*half moa*~ group?? Or could it be that 3 shot groups don't give much information in isolation

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Originally Posted by distant stalker

Was the "all you guys that...." that distracted me from your "most people"....
Please note my left-right is messed up as pic has rotated.
At the shoot with norway we ran some.different drills. I made some stupid mistakes on some.earlier drills bit aftdr a quiet word to myself comfortably put 3 shots on the 1/2 moa target in the know your limits drill. Gimp was there and saw. Its all factory. 7mm08 is much the same as 223 in terms of groups. 7mm mag has off and on days and is currently getting a new barrel

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Aaah so you didn't actually shoot those targets ....... you used a Drill, that could possibly construed as not being an accurate assessment of your gun

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Originally Posted by gimp

This is peeeerfect. Look at the diffferent POI of each group. If you overlay them all, do they still make a ~*half moa*~ group?? Or could it be that 3 shot groups don't give much information in isolation

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Brilliant Gimp

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Originally Posted by gimp

This is peeeerfect. Look at the diffferent POI of each group. If you overlay them all, do they still make a ~*half moa*~ group?? Or could it be that 3 shot groups don't give much information in isolation

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Shifts in poi between groups were from me. Mounting rifle.differently, different body position, adjustments etc (and a lot of mirage in some made finding aiming point difficult) if i was seriously trying to do a bunch of.groups to.overlay on top.of each other i would.start with a more precise aiming point rather than just selecting what part of the circle i was going to.shoot at each time. Taking time and doing it seriously id say the consistant overlaid groups could actually be less than puctured here again

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Originally Posted by Steveh054

Aaah so you didn't actually shoot those targets ....... you used a Drill, that could possibly construed as not being an accurate assessment of your gun

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Dammit you caught me....
Might not be an accurate test of my rifle either...

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Originally Posted by gimp

This is peeeerfect. Look at the diffferent POI of each group. If you overlay them all, do they still make a ~*half moa*~ group?? Or could it be that 3 shot groups don't give much information in isolation

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I would hazzard a guess it is due to not adjusting position when changing target.

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Originally Posted by Toby

Does the rifle have off and on days or the shooter?

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As gimp said. Both. This one was too fussy with what codition barrel it shot best at i.e how many shots between cleans etc so is gettin new barrel. When in its good shooting condition it was awesome but i wanted more from it in tes of reliability

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Originally Posted by distant stalker

As Steve said. Both. This one was too fussy with what codition barrel it shot best at i.e how many shots between cleans etc so is gettin new barrel. When in its good shooting condition it was awesome but i wanted more from it in tes of reliability

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Fixed it for ya

I don't think any of my rifles shoot differently to any other time, then again I dont shoot them enough to really notice

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Originally Posted by Steveh054

Fixed it for ya

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Haha my bad.
Those targets show.quite clearly where adjustments etc were made. Overlay the three top groups and you will still be under 1/2 moa. Regardless of this i actually think the 5x5 shot group is more a test of shooter than rifle. Holding the same aim point for 25 rounds without pulling a shot evem with mirage etc definitely makes the shooter the weak link.
Next time im at the.range ill.put 15 shots on one a point. You can choose if i was 15 one shot groups, 3x5 shot groups or 5x3 shot groups. And we can fill a few pages discussing it..

I'd say my Zastava 223 is a 1/2 MOA riffle at the range with 3 shot groups. Cheap as chips and getting results like distant stalker above. If groups are overlaid then they are all still in the same place and still within the 1/2 MOA. I can take it home, go back two weeks later and do the same, same POI, same group size. The worst part is my daughter can do the same with it, same POI, same group size.

It would be useless at trying to do 5x 5 shot groups as the barrel and suppressor get rather warm and produce a lot of mirage making aiming difficult. However as VC stated this information is useful to work out shooting range, along with drop charts, when hunting. It all depends on how you would define a sub 'whatever' group for a hunting rifle. Would it be one shot every 10 minutes? One shot every 10 seconds? One group a day over several days? All the groups successively?

I like shooting groups at paper as I'm still pretty new to this game and want to make certain I do the best I can for my quarry, learn mine, and my rifles capabilities. I can see both sides of the argument. 'The devils in the detail.'

Right hard hat on.

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Originally Posted by distant stalker

The two on left were 5 including adjustments. Others are three. Wifes tikka 223.
http://i1096.photobucket.com/albums/...2751573655.jpg

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How come after all those shots nothing was done with adjustments to actually take out the red?

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Originally Posted by Spook

How come after all those shots nothing was done with adjustments to actually take out the red?

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I dont work on a 100m zero. That and its hard to have the same aim pointnif you mangle it with shots going through it....:thumbsup:
At the end of the day, this is a rifle i would confidently walk to the firing line with and expect to put 3 shots into a 1/2 moa target. I have shot targets at 200 and 300m and can expect the same sort of results there too (althouh wind does start to have effect at the longer ranges
If a bunny doesnt rollnover dead at 4-500m when i pull the trigger its my fault in reading wind, wrong body position or something similar, not the rifles fault through lack of precision

I think the point is this................
this is a two shot group I shot last weeknd I cheated and shot from 30 to 40 yards the group measured about 2.4 moa
Attachment 14569
The day before I checkd my rifle from 300 yards!!!:D

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Originally Posted by Neckshot

I think the point is this................
this is a two shot group I shot last weeknd I cheated and shot from 30 to 40 yards the group measured about 2.4 moa
Attachment 14569
The day before I checkd my rifle from 300 yards!!!:D

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That looks like a 3 shot group bro

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Originally Posted by distant stalker

I dont work on a 100m zero. That and its hard to have the same aim pointnif you mangle it with shots going through it....:thumbsup:
At the end of the day, this is a rifle i would confidently walk to the firing line with and expect to put 3 shots into a 1/2 moa target. I have shot targets at 200 and 300m and can expect the same sort of results there too (althouh wind does start to have effect at the longer ranges
If a bunny doesnt rollnover dead at 4-500m when i pull the trigger its my fault in reading wind, wrong body position or something similar, not the rifles fault through lack of precision

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If you make allowances in the field then why not when shooting targets?

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Originally Posted by Spook

If you make allowances in the field then why not when shooting targets?

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With this zero i just hold on bunny shoulder until 250 then start dialling. If it will make you feel better ill wind down next time to a 100m zero but a 100m zero on this rifle the way i use it would be a pain

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Originally Posted by distant stalker

With this zero i just hold on bunny shoulder until 250 then start dialling. If it will make you feel better ill wind down next time to a 100m zero but a 100m zero on this rifle the way i use it would be a pain

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Are you saying that the photo of your groups should be viewed rotated 90 degrees to the right?

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Originally Posted by Spook

Are you saying that the photo of your groups should be viewed rotated 90 degrees to the right?

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Yes

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Originally Posted by Spook

Are you saying that the photo of your groups should be viewed rotated 90 degrees to the right?

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I thought the verniers gave that away? Unless he really is Dyslexic Stalker:D

Of course out in the field hunting, with swirling wind, no flash rests, puffing from climbing a hill etc the same rifle/shooter combo is a minute of barn door setup. Mind you shooting out the truck window it is minute of hares head out to 180m.

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Originally Posted by Neckshot

I think the point is this................
this is a two shot group I shot last weeknd I cheated and shot from 30 to 40 yards the group measured about 2.4 moa
Attachment 14569
The day before I checkd my rifle from 300 yards!!!:D

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The killing fields :)

Spook .. don't be so awkward, you know you never shoot the red bit on the target and if you rotate the picture you will see each group is to the left as well, so if this group is 100yds then the rifle is out by a shitload at 300 yards No??? But back to shooting the red bit ..... I have never seen a posted group where the fucking thing is on target, I don't understand why anyone would shoot their rifle in to miss!

Hmmmm people run with different zeroes not.just 100. As pointed out if you keep shooting your point of aim you soon loose it as it becomes a hole. This was an exercise to test rifle precision. If i were to adjust zero further then we would talk accuracy. I welcome you to shoot a group with the rifle (or 5) then tell menit isnt a sub moa sporter barrel rifle. You can take me up on the offer or keep sounding like a fuckwit. Until.you are willing to come and know for sure then i wont waste any further time with you
You had a rant calling out anybody who claimed a sporter weight barrel rifle shot anything less than moa. Ive provided you with evidence it is very possible. Time to accept it and move on rather than clutching at straws. Theres enough proof in the groups shown that the rifle.is more than capable of well under moa. How the scope is set or shooter error are different factors but the point has been made clear. This rifle is easily sub moa. Maybe you should let me shoot yours while you shoot mine and we can see if yours may in fact be sub moa also;)

Steveho54

I tried and tried and tried shooting 1/4" groups till I was Blue in the face but just could never group any where near it.

Then I tried your method and had an instant improvement still no 1/4"ers though, but the best I could do was about 0.308" :)

I guess I'll have to just settle with that and be done with it ;)

Cheers
Pete

I've owned a lot of rifles in my time and a dozen or so of them easily sub MOA. Basically I've found that you do get what you pay for...unless its an old tikka and then you're pretty much onto a sure thing.

I also sold a lot of rifles in my younger years and look back with regret knowing that with the reloading knowledge I have they too would have been sub MOA rifles if I'd had that knowledge at the time.

My current customs all easily shoot sub MOA and range from sporter to Sendero profile in barrel. Now I don't claim to be an awesome shot, actually I'm pretty average at best...but I can still put 5 shots into 1/2 an inch on a good day, and with a lighter recoiling rifle like my old AR15 1/4'' groups were not too uncommon.

So call me what you want....

kj

Well that was always gonna turn into a shit fight. Steve you get what you wanted ???

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Originally Posted by Steveh054

Spook .. don't be so awkward, you know you never shoot the red bit on the target and if you rotate the picture you will see each group is to the left as well, so if this group is 100yds then the rifle is out by a shitload at 300 yards No??? But back to shooting the red bit ..... I have never seen a posted group where the fucking thing is on target, I don't understand why anyone would shoot their rifle in to miss!

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But that's boring to hit the target
Attachment 14599
what dose hitting the bull prove when you just want to see how it groups first.you can zero for the taget later if you like!!!.
your angry bro:D

Why dont you guys use a cross so you have a precise point to aim at?

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Originally Posted by Steveh054

As above.. Today I had very little to do so I took my recently bedded .270 BSA Majestic with Truflite Premium Barrel fitted by Gunworks to a trued action, never took my camera but the results were astounding!!! First I fired a 3 shot group which measured 1" and I thought "fuck that's piss poor" but after seeing on one these threads on the forum recently of a 1/4" sporting rifle, I thought I would have a go at matching that, so I fired 3 one shot groups and fuckme they were all under 1/4" and that is how you shoot 1/4" with a sporting rifle. So all you Guys that are getting 1/4" and less 3 shot groups consistently with your sporter barrel and 3-9 x 40 Nikko scope I say..........."FUCKING BULLSHIT" you are. That is benchrest accuracy!! and the majority of shooters cannot even get close to that kind of accuracy shooting off the bonnet of the truck or a rolled up shirt on the ground, so get real ya bullshittin' pricks.
I now await the flack from the bullshit brigade
Today I am bored

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Maybe its your old eyes and a bit of the shakes setting in.....

i haven't actually seen anyone on this forum post about 1/4" groups to be honest, and the facts are that 1/2" groups are quite achievable with a sporter stock standard rifle...

Saying you need to shoot 5 x 5 shoot groups to prove this is nothing more than ridiculous, to do it properly it would take like half a day if you wanted to keep things cool, not to mention $40 odd dollars.

Sounds like sour grapes from an old fart that should have bought a tikka t3 instead of wasting money on a .270, should of at least forked out the extra $100 and got an ultra match trueflite.

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Originally Posted by Toby

Why dont you guys use a cross so you have a precise point to aim at?

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I would have thought a 1" square at hundy is small enough!.

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Originally Posted by Toby

Why dont you guys use a cross so you have a precise point to aim at?

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I like to quarter the dot with the crosshairs. Only when quarters are even and steady gently squeeze that trigger.

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Originally Posted by Neckshot

But that's boring to hit the target
Attachment 14599
what dose hitting the bull prove when you just want to see how it groups first.you can zero for the taget later if you like!!!.
your angry bro:D

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What sort of shoty was that?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk - now Free

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Originally Posted by PerazziSC3

Maybe its your old eyes and a bit of the shakes setting in.....

i haven't actually seen anyone on this forum post about 1/4" groups to be honest, and the facts are that 1/2" groups are quite achievable with a sporter stock standard rifle...

Saying you need to shoot 5 x 5 shoot groups to prove this is nothing more than ridiculous, to do it properly it would take like half a day if you wanted to keep things cool, not to mention $40 odd dollars.

Sounds like sour grapes from an old fart that should have bought a tikka t3 instead of wasting money on a .270, should of at least forked out the extra $100 and got an ultra match trueflite.

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Read the post properly before you go getting excited, I never mentioned 5x5 that's just a bit you added because you wanted to sound important or you read too many posts at once and with your young eyes and young knowlegable mind you put put them all together and answered 3 or 4 posts incorrectly in one go. A personal attack regarding ones age is hardly conducive to proving your point even a little bit.
Distant Stalker...you are another one that should read the post properly before going off the deep end which of course makes me a fuckwit. Perrazzi and Distant Stalker on reflection it would seem that you 2 have anger management problems which I believe I could help you with by organising counselling for you both, and it is no shame for you to admit you are also frightened of the dark, a good counseller should be able to assist with this problem at the same time, we won't go into bed wetting at this time as the counceller will be extra busy with the 2 of you,but should be able to help with it towards the end of the year if that's ok with you. Please note at no time have I lowered myself to personal attacks on either of you, I have not even hinted at cocksuckers or dickwhackers because that is not my way, I am only here to offer my help. Perrazzi I do have a couple of Tikka's one of which is .270 but then because you have no class,the .270 is not a calibre one should purchase because it disagrees with your biased opinion,so with my lack of knowledge and sour grapes I feel I should dispense with the offending rifle,but please do advise what I should get as a replacement, your help and knowledge will be greatly appreciated.

Happy....fuck yeah

I'll take it if you want to get rid of it. Though it is a .270 so some cash my way too :D joking!

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Originally Posted by Steveh054

Read the post properly before you go getting excited, I never mentioned 5x5 that's just a bit you added because you wanted to sound important or you read too many posts at once and with your young eyes and young knowlegable mind you put put them all together and answered 3 or 4 posts incorrectly in one go. A personal attack regarding ones age is hardly conducive to proving your point even a little bit.
Distant Stalker...you are another one that should read the post properly before going off the deep end which of course makes me a fuckwit. Perrazzi and Distant Stalker on reflection it would seem that you 2 have anger management problems which I believe I could help you with by organising counselling for you both, and it is no shame for you to admit you are also frightened of the dark, a good counseller should be able to assist with this problem at the same time, we won't go into bed wetting at this time as the counceller will be extra busy with the 2 of you,but should be able to help with it towards the end of the year if that's ok with you. Please note at no time have I lowered myself to personal attacks on either of you, I have not even hinted at cocksuckers or dickwhackers because that is not my way, I am only here to offer my help. Perrazzi I do have a couple of Tikka's one of which is .270 but then because you have no class,the .270 is not a calibre one should purchase because it disagrees with your biased opinion,so with my lack of knowledge and sour grapes I feel I should dispense with the offending rifle,but please do advise what I should get as a replacement, your help and knowledge will be greatly appreciated.

Happy....fuck yeah

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you flow well:cool: