Improving the accuracy of a rifle questions- advice wanted please.

After having way to much time off work, i know sounds crazy and yes i would have been out hunting more but down to one car family just now, i have spent a lot of time watching you tube about bedding and scope lapping.

My question to you all is, Is it worth it and what is the cost for bedding and scope lapping? I can not be 100% sure whether the scope has been lapped but rifle has definitely not been bedded.
I have a remington 700 with the synthetic stock, 7mm 08, and the last range practice groups about 2 inches at 100 meters and about 3 inches at 200 metres. Is it worth it to go and get the work done or not.
Also if possible looking at having a better half cock put in (not sure how it works). The one right now if the safety is off and the rifle is at half cock pull the trigger and it will fire :wtfsmilie:. Not really happy about that however it is always pointed in the safe direction so if it was to happen it would be safe.

Just so you know i wouldn't take a shot over 200 metres, that would be a get closer or call it a loss situation for me.

Also i am in Hamilton so if you can recommend someone for this work that would also be great.

Cheers everyone and have a great summers night.

Could be your ammo

try different ammo for sure, scope lapping is crap, I've never done anything fancy to factory rifles myself and once I sorted out the ammo the rifles liked, all my rifles have shot brilliantly.

Bedding make areal difference and probably a small crown job.

If your not shooting over 200 then dont bother 3" its rabbit size let alone deer and pigs.

Not the ammo, found something that the rifle and myself like. Probably the shooter!
Found that Whitetail and Hornady SST is pretty good with the SST nosing ahead of the Whitetail. Whitetail knock down power great in the 50-100 and Hornady knock down power in the 150-200. Funny thing is the damn remington hates coreloct, go figure, like bloody kangaroo pellets the way it makes it jump.

I figure i just want to make sure it is on the money when the shot counts. In saying that it has only ever been one shot and one kill so happy with that.
Out of curiosity though what is the cost of bedding? Anyone able to shine some light on that.

Cheers

Depends who does it mate, can run 80-150$ odd in my experience.
I don't own a working centerfire rifle that isn't glass bedded and that includes rifles with aftermarket stocks with full length aluminium bedding plate and factory laminate.
Personal choice there, a couple of them were very accurate without it, however I'm a firm believer that glass bedding and free floating with a crown tidy or full recrown helps hugely with consistency of accuracy.

And, If I'm wrong it doesn't actually matter as I'm happy and I shoot much better with a rifle I'm happy with.

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Originally Posted by Willie

After having way to much time off work, i know sounds crazy and yes i would have been out hunting more but down to one car family just now, i have spent a lot of time watching you tube about bedding and scope lapping.

My question to you all is, Is it worth it and what is the cost for bedding and scope lapping? I can not be 100% sure whether the scope has been lapped but rifle has definitely not been bedded.
I have a remington 700 with the synthetic stock, 7mm 08, and the last range practice groups about 2 inches at 100 meters and about 3 inches at 200 metres. Is it worth it to go and get the work done or not.
Also if possible looking at having a better half cock put in (not sure how it works). The one right now if the safety is off and the rifle is at half cock pull the trigger and it will fire :wtfsmilie:. Not really happy about that however it is always pointed in the safe direction so if it was to happen it would be safe.

Just so you know i wouldn't take a shot over 200 metres, that would be a get closer or call it a loss situation for me.

Also i am in Hamilton so if you can recommend someone for this work that would also be great.

Cheers everyone and have a great summers night.

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go see Arthur Cleland @Willie he is a top gunsmith he will see you right great honest guy he will not rip you off. Cleland Gunsmithing and Engineering

If you wouldn't shoot past 200 it is already more than accurate enough, I shot many deer and goats and pigs with a 303 and 308 that would just get all shots on a sheet of a4 size target at 100.
That said it is nice to have an accurate rifle, probably the biggest gain in accuracy you could make is having a load developed for the rifle or doing it yourself. if you want to go down the reloading route.

Bedding the action and knox may improve it or it may not, it is entirely possible there is absolutely nothing wrong with the factory bedding,or it could be causing accuracy issues :wtfsmilie:

Basically if you do the bedding don't be disappointed if nothing changes and take it as a bonus if it does shoot better.

My remington 700 was doing the shoot like shit thing with the two brands of factory ammo I tried which was remington corelokt and federal fusion I decided to try making up some reloads for it and got it shooting under an inch at 100 meters so haven't bothered trying other factory rounds in it. If you do want to try making up some reloads buy some dies, powder, primers and projectiles and you can come and use my gear to make up some different loads to try.

Get your rifle bedded first and maybe re crowned . Lapping of scope rings may make a difference when your rings are out of alignments and stress the scope and action. That is another thing that needs to be checked.
Then try factory loads.See how it improved.
Then try reloads.
My two cents for you to save time , money and frustration.

Fitting new tyres to a car with a faulty engine is not going to make your car go better.
You make sure the engine is sound first.

Good luck

Get someone else to shoot the rifle off solid rests. Most issues with rifle accuracy end up being the shooter :D

Check the action screws, and rings screws are tight.

Give the barrel a really good clean and try again...

Re crowning is a good idea.

Bedding idea good idea on just about any rifle. Some good videos if you want to give it ago. Search for Nathan Forster or Ballistics Studies, he has a 5 part video series.

Search for Nathan Forster or Ballistics Studies, he has a 5 part video series.[/QUOTE]

+1 for this. I bedded my 30-06 with his compound and followed his video instructions. Also gave him a call to clarify a few things. Top bloke. And it made a hell of a difference.

Thanks for all the advice people you are all a wealth of knowledge.
I did watch the 5 part video and if i had a vice etc i would have been game to give it a go, as it is don't have a workshop that i could do this in so probably a better idea that i get someone to do it. Also if i was to try it probably not with this rifle to begin with.
I will see how the week goes and may pop out to the range just to see what is going on and how the grouping is again.

Mucko, i will go see Arthur and see what his thoughts are. Cheers for that.
Thanks everyone and have a cracking day today.

is it shooting in a group or stringing or anything like that

theres a thread on pillar bedding on the previous page

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Originally Posted by northdude

is it shooting in a group or stringing or anything like that

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Normally a group however what I found is that with Remington Coreloct it would throw every 4th round or so, now that most likely is myself however to eliminate this being the ammo's fault and due to not liking it I moved on to other ammo.
Thinking a day throwing lead at paper would be a good idea and cleaning in between the shots. See what comes out of it and take it from there.
As for the specialist advice it's free to ask questions but might not get the answers that I am looking for.

Cheers for all the help guys much appreciated. Good bunch of buggers this lot:D

What are you shooting it off at the range, bipod or sandbags, day pack etc. It will make a difference with a pressure point bedded rifle especially in a flimsy synthetic stock. Have you had the trigger worked up or as it come from the factory?

So what's happening is that i went to see Arthur Clelland, damn nice fella and has a lot of knowledge. Short answer made long is that it is being sent in for the trigger to be replaced, it was on recall anyway and we will see if that helps. He noticed on the left side of the stock was touching the barrel and suggested sanding it back a little, might give that a go and see if it helps but also most importantly looks like a bedding would be the best option for the accuracy.
Also while chatting to him i mentioned that there was a definite stop as you cycle the bolt to the fully closed position, it feels almost like a half cock. As the bolt moves past the stop if you were to pull the trigger the bolt drops all the way and will fire a shot. Well he thought this was unusual so had a chat with the fella in the gun shop and got them to put a note on it to check it while it is having the issue with the trigger sorted. Might just be Remington but i would like it checked anyway.
In answer to Tuidog. Shooting off the bipod so pretty steady. As for the trigger you can tune it to the pressure you want, handy little screw underneath the trigger lets you set the pressure so it didn't require any work as such however something to look at for the future.

I just hope the damn thing is back before the roar...it bloody better be!
Oh and also looking at something more powerful than a 3x9, eyes need to get a wee bit closer.

Cheers everyone.

I found that my groups got smaller shooting off my small pack with my swandry inside it with the higher recoiling rifles they tended to jump around a bit on firing off my bipod doesn't affect my lighter recoiling rifles as much

my 2c worth to the lots of good advice already given.

Trigger job will help for sure - get that pull wieght down to 1.5 - 2lb.

Cleaning - make sure you've got clean barrel with no copper fouling. Nathan's Terminal Ballsitics website is a teasure trove of info on everything, including cleaning. A polish with JB's might also help - but dont over do it !

Bedding - first you might consider an after market stock, most standard synthetic factory stocks are not ideal for a stable platform for bedding. I've had good luck with B&C stocks (other might have a different experience) as well as some of the more expensive brands. In terms of bedding, try Mitch Maxberry in the Hutt. He very knowledgeable, helpful and reasonable prices. Wont cost you much more than buying the bedding components, and you get an expert job !

Scope rings - forget the lapping imo, just invest in good quality rings. I find the Burris Signature Zee rings with the variable inserts give a great platform and allow you to adjust for any up/down (or sideways) between front and rear rings. This really helps get your scope into alignment with out the need to crank the be jesus out of the scope turrets which can get you into optical issues & inaccuracy.

If you're chasing sub moa then probably need to find some one to reload for you.
cheers & good luck.

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Originally Posted by northdude

I found that my groups got smaller shooting off my small pack with my swandry inside it with the higher recoiling rifles they tended to jump around a bit on firing off my bipod doesn't affect my lighter recoiling rifles as much

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That's an error in your shooting position causing the rifle to jump with the bipod. With good natural point of aim and a bit of bipod loading they don't hop.
Don't worry though, shooting off a pack is a lot more forgiving for this but depending on you technique and practice may not be quite as steady as the bipod.

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Originally Posted by chainsaw

Cleaning - make sure you've got clean barrel with no copper fouling.

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A little bit of copper fouling is a good thing - carbon fouling is a problem. Cold clean barrel will throw the first few shots out slow and potentially out of the group - particularly at extended distances

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Originally Posted by ebf

Get someone else to shoot the rifle off solid rests. Most issues with rifle accuracy end up being the shooter :D

Check the action screws, and rings screws are tight.

Give the barrel a really good clean and try again...

Re crowning is a good idea.

Bedding idea good idea on just about any rifle. Some good videos if you want to give it ago. Search for Nathan Forster or Ballistics Studies, he has a 5 part video series.

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On the money!!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by chainsaw

my 2c worth to the lots of good advice already given.

Trigger job will help for sure - get that pull wieght down to 1.5 - 2lb.

It was already pretty light so thanks for that.

Cleaning - make sure you've got clean barrel with no copper fouling. Nathan's Terminal Ballsitics website is a teasure trove of info on everything, including cleaning. A polish with JB's might also help - but dont over do it !

Bedding - first you might consider an after market stock, most standard synthetic factory stocks are not ideal for a stable platform for bedding. I've had good luck with B&C stocks (other might have a different experience) as well as some of the more expensive brands. In terms of bedding, try Mitch Maxberry in the Hutt. He very knowledgeable, helpful and reasonable prices. Wont cost you much more than buying the bedding components, and you get an expert job !

I am looking at this and seeing if there is anyone in the Waikato area that can do it. I like my synthetic stock as it fits me well and comes up nicely, one of the reasons that I chose the rifle in question. Might not be the easiest to get bedded but can only try.

Scope rings - forget the lapping imo, just invest in good quality rings. I find the Burris Signature Zee rings with the variable inserts give a great platform and allow you to adjust for any up/down (or sideways) between front and rear rings. This really helps get your scope into alignment with out the need to crank the be jesus out of the scope turrets which can get you into optical issues & inaccuracy.

Yeah not overly fussed about it TBH, might be a very last thing I do.

If you're chasing sub moa then probably need to find some one to reload for you.
IT would be great to be able to do this and certainly if I could get access to a range in Waikato I would look at it, for the time being will stick with trying to get the rifle to shoot well with factory ammo
cheers & good luck.

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:thumbsup:
Cheers, seriously good bunch of buggers you lot are.

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Originally Posted by Willie

:thumbsup:
Cheers, seriously good bunch of buggers you lot are.

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Willie the only thing I'd add to what my learned colleagues have said (as excellent starting points) is don't overlook the value of strengthening the fore-end as part of your bedding activities. The other would be to check the crown for any wee dags that might be there at the end of the rifling, if there are its relatively easy to get removed or polished out.

Remington and even my T3 that i thought was free floating when sitting in my gun vise was touching the barrel in one place when I'd place weight on the Harris Bi-pod firing prone. Sweet as off the bags but both the Remington SPS ( Theres a reason its called SPS) and T3 Lite stocks tend to have a possibility of torquing and touching the barrel when fired if you use one of those or apply any pressure that may influence the free floating nature of the barrel and the ability for the lug to float during the shot and return to battery.

Nathan Foster has a compound for that too - It adds weight but this might be the thing that changes your POI for the group by as much as .5 MOA.

I'd also check or get Arthur to check for slop in the action and see whether a true up may be warranted. Its a line call but now wer're getting into long range tweaks and to the point where there will be diminishing returns for cost versus accuracy gain.

Just my 2c.

P.

Ok so you are shooting off a bipod but it is jumping around when you fire?
Righto rem plastic stocks are pressure point bedded, putting pressure on the front of the stock puts pressure on the barrel, moving it.
to fix it if you are going to use a bipod all the time it will need a bedding job and freefloating.

rifle jumping around when you fire it, ... hold onto the foreend or bipod leg when you shoot.
When you shoot do everything the same everytime you fire, consistency is the key.

or just sight the rifle in, don't bother firing groups all the time. Just go shoot stuff with it, seems to work for a lot of blokes

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tuidog

Ok so you are shooting off a bipod but it is jumping around when you fire?
Righto rem plastic stocks are pressure point bedded, putting pressure on the front of the stock puts pressure on the barrel, moving it.
to fix it if you are going to use a bipod all the time it will need a bedding job and freefloating.

rifle jumping around when you fire it, ... hold onto the foreend or bipod leg when you shoot. It only ever jumps around with coreloct hence not using that. Hornady and Whitetail it is fine.
When you shoot do everything the same everytime you fire, consistency is the key.

or just sight the rifle in, don't bother firing groups all the time. Just go shoot stuff with it, seems to work for a lot of blokes

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Plan is get it back after new trigger and then get it bedded, thinking that will do the trick. Just need to see how long it will be before i get it back :oh noes: