Thread: Looking for a good all around rifle

Originally Posted by Barry the hunter

hmm good point about the vixen - well I would look at it like this - a mint one all original with nice wood likely not- yes would be safe queen collectors piece - but get one with a buggered barrel - put a new truflight or similar on it cut back to 20 inch suppressor see if one could get a carbon stock made for it -and yes I would - cost should be do-able for 2K and one has that beautiful action - same as a Forester - and again an older Parker Hale rebarrell it - they are a decent mauser action after all - Shultz and Larsen my dream rifle yes I would just have to use it - just a pity when they do come up for sale so many are in obscure ( well for us ) European calibers -

Carbon stock is $1450, barrel will be $1000 fitted minimum - even with a free action you're looking at $2450


Can't get parts for a Sako Vixen anymore, mounts are limited.... I wouldn't do it if you paid me now. Better off with a very "standard" modern action if you want an easy life.


Get a stainless Howa mini and a carbon stock....

okay a sako 90 in 223 wood blued then but I still think the vixens are the holy grail

I love my old classical style rifles. They are really nice to handle and the good ones shoot well.

But in offering advice too someone new too the sport as much as it grates on me, the correct way to go is indeed a Howa or Tikka. Second hand will very likely be as good as new if the rifle looks like its been looked after. If you want something different. Im impressed with some of the newer browning rifles too. But they will cost more.

Calibres. 243 is a good choice if you are not hunting too many bigger animals. 308 is good if you are shooting more animals like pigs or red deer.
The 6.5 creedmore is a good allrounder, but really there is no ultimate rifle for small game and big game. If you get into it more you will end up with a rifle for each.

25/06 is great but probably a little harder to get ammo for.

6.5 Grendal, I really like for teaching young people to hunt. Its low recoil and a bigger projectile than 243. It is really a gun for under 250 meters though when you are starting out. Thats not a bad thing.

308, 270, 30/06 are all starting to get more recoil but great hunting cartridges.

What will you be shooting the most? If small game, go for one of the smaller calibers. If big game go for one of the bigger ones.

Gidday @HindmarshLM07
Your initial list of cartridges is all military
243 is often favoured by people from the UK where most deer are smaller species than we have here. Ive seen a few times hunters starti g out in NZ get a 243 and within a year are trading up.
Deer and chamois cartridges used here start around 308 case size and 6.5 like the Creedmore (7mm08 has been very popular the last decade) but 3006 size is more of an allrounder for the South Island. So, thats 270 and 280 or if you’re bigger built 300WSM and 7mmRem Mag. ( my mates have got these and they outperform my 7m08 but they are 90 kg plus and strong). You need enough power to put down a big red stag or a bull tahr (similar size to a beef bull) at 300m . Check out the remaining ft.lb energy out there. A lot of advice says 1000 ft.lb but that is for 20m shots at sika or red hinds inNorth Island bush.

Unless youve done a fair amount of shooting a dial up scope will be as much hindrance as help. 3-9x40 or 3.5-10 will be ideal.

Package deals can be good but dont accept the scope unless the model is also for sale separately and worth over say $700.

Another reason to go for a howa/ or Tikka is they are so common there are accessories eg rails and rings aftermarket stocks available everywhere for good prices.

The most expensive rifle I had was a cz, was a great gun but all the rings/ rails etc had to be genuine cz as there was no aftermarket bits in NZ
Ended up having to pay $400 for a genuine scope rail.
I saw the value in a howa after that.

Just buy my Winchester 70 7mm-08 and you're sorted

Looking at scope brands, in NZ we need real ruggedness and waterproofness.
Personally, I like a simple thick hair reticle so I can see it in low light.

Brands that have stood the test of time in NZ are: Leupold, Burris, Bushnell.
Ok brands include Zeiss and Swarovski which boast good glass but are lighter weight.
Heavy duty scopes too expensivecto start out with are Nightforce, Schmidt and Bender, Kahles.
Note that Steiner also make a scope called Ranger which is top notch, not to be confused with the cheap package deal brand.

Originally Posted by Tim

Just buy my Winchester 70 7mm-08 and you're sorted

Could be good. Why are you selling it ?

Originally Posted by Bagheera

Gidday @HindmarshLM07
243 is often favoured by people from the UK where most deer are smaller species than we have here. Ive seen a few times hunters starti g out in NZ get a 243 and within a year are trading up.
Deer and chamois cartridges used here start around 308 case size and 6.5 like the Creedmore (7mm08 has been very popular the last decade) but 3006 size is more of an allrounder for the South Island. So, thats 270 and 280 or if you’re bigger built 300WSM and 7mmRem Mag. ( my mates have got these and they outperform my 7m08 but they are 90 kg plus and strong). You need enough power to put down a big red stag or a bull tahr (similar size to a beef bull) at 300m . Check out the remaining ft.lb energy out there. A lot of advice says 1000 ft.lb but that is for 20m shots at sika or red hinds inNorth Island bush.

Ftlbs of energy as a metric does not tell you anything about how a bullet will perform to kill an animal.

What kills animals is holes in vital organs. The bigger hole, the more efficiently the animal dies, up to a certain point beyond which it doesn't make any further difference.


Firstly it is important to put the bullet actually in the animal in the correct spot so that it will penetrate into the vital organs. Almost every rifle is precise enough for this, the primary factor that is a problem for this is shooter proficiency from field positions. The higher the recoil of the rifle, the more of a problem this is. The more expensive the cartridge, the less proficiency you will gain through practice.

Secondly, the projectile needs to penetrate into the vital organs. Almost any centrefire rifle bullet will do this if you shoot the animal in the right place. There is not a lot of meat and bone between air and lungs in a deer.


Next you need the bullet to expand and make a big hole in the vital organs. Issues with bullet performance are more commonly that the bullet does not expand enough in the right part of the bullet travel through the animal to actually make a big hole in the vital organs. Modern heavy-for-calibre tipped copper jacketed bullets at moderate speeds work beautifully for this, even in moderate diameters, and are available in a range of factory loads for nice mild-recoiling cartridges.




There are many of us happily and thoroughly effectively shooting all NZ game animal species (except I haven't seen anyone in a Wap block, yet) happily with .223 and good bullets placed in the right spot, which includes "through the shoulder into the lungs". Ftlbs of energy don't tell you that this works beautifully, and you certainly don't need "power" - you need an effective bullet in the right place.


I would and do hunt anything in New Zealand with a .223 or a 6mm with good bullets and I would recommend the same to anyone else - I would also recommend to all hunters that they actually gain some proficiency to shoot things in the right place.

You are correct Gimp. But I have one caution. You are very experienced. As proficient as a new hunter might be on the range. They are not used too the excitement and also do not have the experience too wait for the right shot angle. Or instinctively know where the exact spot to put a small projectile is.

Alot of learning gos out the door on those first animals. Thats something many of us have forgotten.

Originally Posted by whanahuia

You are correct Gimp. But I have one caution. You are very experienced. As proficient as a new hunter might be on the range. They are not used too the excitement and also do not have the experience too wait for the right shot angle. Or instinctively know where the exact spot to put a small projectile is.

Alot of learning gos out the door on those first animals. Thats something many of us have forgotten.

I agree and it's demonstrable that a heavier-recoiling cartridge doesn't help things in those situations....


You don't need to pick your shots any more or any less with, say, a 6mm shooting 103gr ELDX or a .223 shooting 80gr ELDM than you do with a .308. Either one needs to go into a part of the animal that it needs operational to stay alive and standing.

so why not use a 17hmr?

Put a suppressor on rifle and recoil is negligible anyway.howa 270-243_308 suppressed are quieter and similar felt recoil to unsuppressed 223 and certainly less than the shotguns OP has and similar to his 357 mag. A bang and a push not a kick.

Originally Posted by STC

so why not use a 17hmr?

For one cause past fifty yards it simply won't go deep enough. And for two because it's illegal on public land

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

For one cause past fifty yards it simply won't go deep enough. And for two because it's illegal on public land

Yes correct. was intended as a joke.

Sorry I cant take people serious that want to suggest a 223 as a red deer cartridge for new shooters. Especially when they do not understand the differences in terminal ballistics between a 223 and lets say a 308...