Greetings,Quote:
Originally Posted by caberslash
Bryan has got mil mixed up with mrad. This is common in the US. 1 mil is 98mm at 100 metres where 1 mrad is 100mm. Most scopes should be in mrad rather than mil but I don't know that to be true. Mil is used in the military for gun laying where for convenience there needs to be an even number of units in a full circle.
GPM.
No mils in NZ but maybe the odd Moa still kicking around
I have a Z5 scope, I have it zeroed at 100 meters, the next dot (green) is 200 meters, the next dot (yellow) 300 meters and finally last dot (red) 400 meters.
Range finder is set in meters. So out hunting range animal, twiddle turret until desired dot or if say 250 meters then green dot and approximately half way to yellow and bang (lights out).
The base ten system is epic for a couple of things - quick drop and wind brackets. Have a google and see what you find. I was leaving a heap of capability and ease of use on the table with MOA.
MRAD can still be used with yards, in fact that’s how I prefer to use it.
As a quick example, with ‘quick drop’ I know my drops instantly out to 600yds for my 6.5cm.
200 = .5mil
300 = 1.2
400 = 2.2
500 = 3.2
600 = 4.2
467 = 2.8
It’s just minus 2 and plus 2
Mil all the way.
It is true that they are both angular measurements so both do the same thing, for the average hunter it doesn't matter at all as you'll just be using a LRF to range the target, dial your scope and shoot.
Mils has a few advantages over MOA though that won me over.
-The smaller numbers (Eg: 4.5mil vs 15.75 MOA) make dope charts less cluttered and quicker/easier to read.
-Turrets are often quicker/easier to read with the less numbers.
-Reticles with hold marks tend to make more sense (Eg the large hold marks are always 1Mil (with .5 or .2mil in between) where as MOA can be either 4, 2 or 1 for the main hashes and you need to remember what easy reticle uses).
-Quick drop forumlas (see Hunter Nicks post above) work much better with Mils than MOA.
-You can use the quick wind call "Gun Number" (you'll need to google it) much better with Mils than MOA.
If you want to count up to 10 then mil. it works better for my brain as I don't need to do the math when dialing the scope.
I.e., 2.8 mil is -2 clicks from 3.0 mil when dialing the elevation.
So you struggle to count over 10! I love it :P ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Beetroot
Greetings again,
The US was introduced to the mil for artillery in WW1. They had turned up late and without much kit so they had to use mainly French guns. These were in a number of units including the mil of which there were 6,400 in a circle. There are 6,283.15 milliradians in a circle. After the war the US Artillery adopted the mil of 6,400 to the circle but the Infantry adopted a mil of 6,280 to the circle. You can trust the US to make things that should be simple more complicated. Hatcher wrote in his notebook that the infantry mil was scrapped around WW2 likely in the late 1940's. I note Hatcher referred to the milliradian as a mil as well so the confusion over the difference in the US is not new.
GPM.
In rifle shooting common usage MRAD and Mil are interchangeable terms in any practical sense
I can count just fine, smaller numbers are easier to interpret quickly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibo
I had a Leupold with an Impact 29 reticle (in MOA) and the reticle was a complete nightmare. The combination of too many dots in the tree and them all being 2moa spacing meant using the tree was extremely difficult.
Never had that problem with any Mil tree reticle.
The only MOA scope I still use is a LPVO that I don't use very frequently, and I always forget if the hash marks are 4moa or 2moa hashes.
If it were Mil I wouldn't need to remember as almost without exception Mil reticles always use 1Mil hashes and then clearly show when it's different.
Most wind holds end up being less than 1 mil which is way harder to fuck up and hold on the wrong mark than 3.5 moa
MIL (MRAD) for me.
I need a drop chart, app or marks on the turret for MOA and also can't figure a quick wind hold method with MOA.
MRAD I can quickly figure drop and windhold in my head using the simple Speed drop and gun number values.
I. E. My 6.5prc 147eldm load is elevation speed drop factor is 1.9 & wind factor of 0.1mil per 10kph of wind per 100meters.
450m target, 10kph L-R wind is 2.6mil up (450m =4.5-1.9 =2.6) and 0.45mil left hold.
After 700m other adjustments are needed but I won't shoot animals that far and steel targets can't walk off...
I do use a vx-6hd in moa but I have a custom dial turret and use my ballistic app for reticle windhold. My old vortex viper ffp was alot faster for getting shots away when hunting without needing the app on the hill for the long shots.
as grandpamac explains there are several variants close to the mRad so check that your scope is actually millRad ie 1cm per 100m.
There is a similar problem with Imperial systems, that 1 MOA is not exactly 1 inch per 100 yd and the discrepancy is more than for cm/100m .
The third point to check is whether your rifle range is 100m or 100 yd - it could be either or often “more or less” so you specially need a range finder if testing the click value testing of your scope or doing “tall target” exercises.
Fourthly, if using or testing mildots and moa hashes on your reticle you need to check the units claimed by the manufacturer and test them on a known sized mark at a range findered distance. Personally, I find graduated reticles a waste of space unless the scope is first focal plane but that’s another argument …
Within quality mrad scopes, the only example that I'm aware of using a different size of mrad click is some march scopes many years ago. Everything else uses the same standard.
Both but I like mrad better. Simple numbers. We grow up on metric makes sense. Moa is also easy .
