Muzzle Forward or OverBarrel

Up front I've no intention of cutting barrel length down, then again wasn't too long ago I'd no intention of ruining any rifles lines with a suppressor but now except for the 9.3 they're all threaded :( .

I'm getting another suppressor, for the 223, just can;'t convince myself about which would be better
I found an old thread in which various opinions were given but that dates to 2014 I also found the Rod and Rifle suppressor test here
https://www.rodandrifle.co.nz/supressor-test.html
Which was very informative..

I'm a fan of the muzzle forward A-Tec I have on the Finn light but would prefer to buy local this time

I'm not bashing through bush with it.
I just can't see how with highish volume eg maybe 5 shots fairly quickly, how the over barrels jobs won't heat up and therefore take much longer to cool down and cool the barrel
However , I hardly see a muzzle forward can on a rifle shown on this forum so what am I missing, why do folk prefer or seem to prefer the over barrel jobs.

Better balance with over barrell, not an issue for a bench/range rifle, muzzle forward can make the rifle barrel end heavy but has the advantage of not heating up the barrell as fast as an overbarell that will feel better balanced but will heat up quicker, also as you pointed out the muzzle forward will be more awkward to carry through confined spaces

ive got a muzzle forward on one rifle and an over barrel on another havnt done a scientific test but once you screw a weight onto the end of a barrel it becomes muzzle heavy both mine did anyway over barrel just saves a bit of length for me

I prefer the over barrel. They only go a few inches forward of the barrel and because they come further back the balance in not affected anywhere near as much. Even between the over barrel ones you will have choices to make. Long and slender such as gunworks or Shorter and wider like the DPT. While I use Gunworks and have not had the chance to use a DPT yet, both these brands are very good. From what I understand DPT is a bit lighter weight that the Gunworks. And there are a number of others as well.

Over barrel is fine for a hunting rifle, moves the weight further back and has a mechanical advantage with the bush round the barrel. Does not allow the barrel to cool as quickly but I've never had a problem when after small game with the little 223.

Why don't you go along to Mark at Waitaki engineering and see what he could do for you

He's already providing the thread and rail, negotiations from there.:)

Over barrel meant that I wouldn't have to chop my barrel which had been re crowned

And it also means that you can a bit longer barrel and still have the suppressor pretty close to the end of the stock. Which is good for certain calibers.

Sent from my TA-1024 using Tapatalk

Ive got both DPT and GUNWORKS Spartans..... overall length there is very little in it (less than 2") weight isnt able to be picked by hand alone..... if muzzle forward is cheaper and you arent bush bashing so its range/open country/vechile only use I say go for it..the waitaki ones for x39mm look interesting.... as for barrel overheating if I fire 5-10 shots reasonable quickly...like sitting on ridge shooting wallabies...I unscrew suppressor to help let barrel cool down quicker...not a big deal...same goes for range work,suppressor unscrewed and bolt left open when go forward to check target.

I'm prejudiced towards muzzle forward I'll admit, especially with the longer range and range shooting I do in open country
I guess I just wanted to see what advantages the over barrel would bring me, so cheers for the replies.

The A-Tec doesn't add that much weight to the barrels end, it;s the Cmm-4 model, though yes it does add weight.
I think I'll head for DPt's equivilent
Cheers.
@Micky Duck
I had the Waitaki Ar can on my last 223, great thing, couldn't kill it, saw Gimp and Tussock magdump ar's untill it got reasonably warm , took some time and still survived
I know it's not the one you mean above,but i'm sure the quality is the same as is everything he makes.

It pays to do your home work when deciding on a suppressor.
Whilst most folk are right in an over barrel will add less length to your rifle, some makes of suppressor will have less length forward than others.
The hardy compact suppressor is the same length as the DPT over barrel but is 1" less forward of the muzzle, but you pay a fair bit more for it.

I prefer the look of over barrel suppressors and would be willing to take the additional weight to have a length forward of the muzzle.
I ended up going for an ASE can, which is muzzle forward but so short is added same amount of length as a DPT over barrel, weighs a lot but is very effective and being stainless tolerated longer shooting strings better.

One thing to consider is that over barrels also strengthen a suppressor in a knock. ie if you were to fall a muzzle forward is held by just the threads which will likely just bent/shear whereas an overbarrel has two points of contact and as such is much stronger.

My mae over barrel doesn't have a rear bush

I have a stainless steel muzzle forward on my Jongmans .223, can't hurt it tough as old boots barrel is 20 inch.

+1 on the MAE forward can. I have one on my sons (technically mine, he is after all 11) .223 howa. The rifle is 20” barrel and the thing shoots like a tack driver. We use it for goats out to 200yards and it just works perfectly. Not much extra length when put along side my 24” 6.5 Creedmoor with a gunworks over barrel spartan.

For pure target work, it's muzzle forward and for hunting it's overbarrel.
I don't know why most 22LR suppressors are muzzle forward.

Noise reduction mostly depends on muzzle forward length - it counts for twice what length behind the muzzle does.
You get the most suppression for your weight from muzzle forward and it adds the most to the angular inertia of the system so it is an advantage in target competition.

If you're ever going to slip over and fall on your rifle you need overbarrel.

I thought hard about the Atec muzzle forward model but went for the over barrel CTM4. It has a bushing, is mounted with just a smidgeon of clearance and has been bumped and fallen on a few times but still shoots well after about 5 years and 2000 rounds. I use it with 2 baffles (modules) removed which certainly compromises sound reduction but reduces length and balance weight a worthwhile amount. Only Atec and DPT have removable baffles as far as I know at the moment.

Hi,

Not saying that there are no good back over the barrel suppressors, however all of our current suppressors are front mounting / muzzle forward and for good reason.

Most of the weight of back over the barrel suppressors is still in the front where the baffles are and they can also have more added length than our short SL5i for example.

They can also be heavier than the SL5i, which is c. 340 grams.

In our tests, there is very minimal difference in the balance point across different back over the barrel suppressors, compared to the SL5i.

Which is as effective as many of the larger suppressors or in some cases even more effective.

Often larger back over the barrels have a higher first round pop than our smaller suppressors, good example is the large A-Tec Carbon 03.

It is c. 4-5 dB quieter on 5 shot string than our SL5i, but on the first shot they are within 1 dB.

The area also that has the best ratio for suppression ( whether sound or flash ) is the area in front of the muzzle, the benefit given by the rear section is is smaller.

Best Regards!

Tuukka Jokinen
Ase Utra sound suppressors

http://www.aseutra.fi/assets/galleri...sl5_forest.JPG

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bagheera

For pure target work, it's muzzle forward and for hunting it's overbarrel.
I don't know why most 22LR suppressors are muzzle forward.

Noise reduction mostly depends on muzzle forward length - it counts for twice what length behind the muzzle does.
You get the most suppression for your weight from muzzle forward and it adds the most to the angular inertia of the system so it is an advantage in target competition.

If you're ever going to slip over and fall on your rifle you need overbarrel.

I thought hard about the Atec muzzle forward model but went for the over barrel CTM4. It has a bushing, is mounted with just a smidgeon of clearance and has been bumped and fallen on a few times but still shoots well after about 5 years and 2000 rounds. I use it with 2 baffles (modules) removed which certainly compromises sound reduction but reduces length and balance weight a worthwhile amount. Only Atec and DPT have removable baffles as far as I know at the moment.

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As I also wrote in the previous message, yes the muzzle forward area is more critical for suppression ability.

The slipping and falling is often brought up about over barrel suppressors,

There are many differences in materials and build in suppressors and a front mounting suppressor can easily be stronger than an over barrel suppressor in this regard also.

We have had no issues in this regard with our fully welded steel or stainless steel designs.

Best Regards!

Tuukka

Interesting does this apply to all calibres from 22 rimfire to the Weatherby magnums?

Hi Tuukka,
It's really good to have someone in the trade speaking up here. If there are problems, you wiil have seen them.
Perhaps steel suppressors are stronger than aluminium ones. Something must also depend on mounting technique, shoulder bearing surface and so on ?
Do ASE offer a warranty against baffle strike or bent muzzles due to falls ?

Hi,

Yes, we have our way of manufacturing products but of course we have learned a lot over the past 25 years.

Also, if people have seen how I comment on our competition and suppressors in general, I prefer it the simple way, speaking honestly as I have no need to make up things.

We have primarily used steel and stainless steel as many of the same suppressor bodies have also gone to MIL/LE use.

Aluminium does have the weight benefit, but it can also have its drawbacks. For example with the SL5i, we are in the weight range of aluminium or even carbon fibre suppressors, with a fully welded stainless steel design.

If a suppressor is damaged due to falls, it does not really fall under the manufacturing and material guarantee.

But we would usually replace them anyway as a show of customer service. From the top of my head I do not recall a warranty replacement though for a cause like that as the suppressors do not get damaged that easily.

Best Regards!

Tuukka

I've got a couple of A-tech muzz forward cans...best I've had for sound suppression and super light at 220g... but I do find they come loose frequently, but not many suppressors done due to heating and cooling. However over barrel is a little more forgiving is it does come loose whereas with a muzz forward can it is more prone to bullet strike. My current preferred suppressor is the DPT over barrel at 260g.

One inch of suppressor in front of the barrel is more effective/efficient than one inch of suppressor over the barrel. You need something like twice as much over barrel, to get the same effect as one part in front of barrel.

Another issue that hasn't been brought up that I just discovered, forward reflects light from scope mounted torch more than an over barrel