New F Class setup and advice

Hi,

Recently been getting into F Class at a rifle club and now have my heart set on buying my own gear. Still undecided on a .308 for FTR or the FPR category. It’s not a question of money, more what’s the best class to learn the art as a newer shooter.

Either way I plan to invest in high end gear from the outset (buy once, cry once).

Looking at:

MDT ACC chassis system or KRG
Either ZCO, TT or NF (mil)

What I am less sure about is, who are the recommended gunsmiths and suppliers to work with in NZ? Also, what rectiles are recommended on these scopes?

At this stage I have been borrowing equipment so have no consistency with anything and often swap between hunting rifles and TRs. Basically, if I am dropping 15k+ I would like to know I am working with the right people and getting the good gear from the start.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Speak to the guys at the clubs.

The stocks you list are not really suited to FO. Maybe if you were interested in FPR...

You will learn more about wind calling if you shoot FTR with 155s for a season, but you will need to deal with lower scores (and more pain, especially if shooting at Seddon, haha)... It really depends on how far you want to take it and how much effort you are willing to put in.

Action wise, Barnard P is pretty much the standard. Optics - walk around and look what guys are using - couple of years ago NF Comp was pretty much the standard.

Reticles - something with a fine crosshair, preferably in MOA. Dialing elevation in 1/8ths helps. The fullbore targets and distances are all MOA based.

@Cyclops can probably point you in the right direction, I have been out of the fullbore game for a couple of years.

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Originally Posted by ebf

Speak to the guys at the clubs.

The stocks you list are not really suited to FO. Maybe if you were interested in FPR...


@Cyclops can probably point you in the right direction, I have been out of the fullbore game for a couple of years.

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I amended my post, the F Class category where you move round and shoot off different objects is what I enjoy….that’s FPR?

Thanks

As said above, Barnard action single shot, true flite stock ( and barrel) . Seb joystick bipod , high end optic , high quality rear bag and reloading gear . All up you won't be fare off using the 15 k. But you will have the gear to compete against the best.

I think you are getting confused between PRS/Field events and F-class (FO, FTR, FPR). F-class is prone only (no barricades or movement), shot at known distances on NRANZ ranges.

Which club have you been shooting with ?

Fpr or precision rifle series, different game from F-tr
You can start with a Howa or a tikka Ctr or varmint,and add on the stock, mags, scope , bipod and bags and spend under 10k.

I have confused myself and everyone else haha!

At the club they shoot F series and what I want to get into is PRS. However, I have some learning to do first which is best done at the range.

Basically I am looking for a PRS setup.

PRS can be real gear race but it doesn't need to be. Many shooters who compete start out with reasonably basic rifles and go from there if they continue to compete. If you want to start from scratch you want a rifle with a 10 shot mag and an adjustable stock. Tikka, Bergara and Howa all have models that work very well. A scope in the 6-24 range. Various shooting bags a bipod and tripod. Caliber well lets not go there. Mid capacity 6 to 6.5mm. Ballistics app and range finder. Turning up and competing is more important than agonizing over gear selection. The vast majority of guys are limited by their skill level not their gear.

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Originally Posted by Dermastor

The vast majority of guys are limited by their skill level not their gear.

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Yup.

Shooting a season of FClass to develop good fundamentals will help, and it should also up your reloading and wind call game.

Next shoot a season of service rifle to learn how to shoot non prone. This is probably the largest point of weakness for most prs competitors.

PRS is still in its infancy in NZ, most of the matches are really more field oriented when compared to full US PRS style matches.

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Originally Posted by ebf

Yup.

Shooting a season of FClass to develop good fundamentals will help, and it should also up your reloading and wind call game.

Next shoot a season of service rifle to learn how to shoot non prone. This is probably the largest point of weakness for most prs competitors.

PRS is still in its infancy in NZ, most of the matches are really more field oriented when compared to full US PRS style matches.

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That is effectively what I am doing at the moment but I have none of the gear. My assumption is that a high end PRS setup is going to be just fine for learning in F Class, even if its not the optimal setup. Then once I have built some confidence and learned using the same gear I can make the transition.

Obviously, buying the best gear will exceed my capabilities as a shooter BUT I have learned previously that buying a 'learner' setup in anything often just ends up costing you more, as its a sunk cost when you get into the sport.

Are these guys a reputable NZ outfit?
https://targetdynamics.co.nz/

Figure Barnard Actions and Trueflight are the go to brands for precision actions and barrels in NZ based on the post above?

If you look at gear that people are using in NZ as far as PRS goes, basically very very few of them use Barnard actions.
Most common will be Tikka, Howa and Remington in factory actions, with Bighorn, Defiance being the most common custom actions.
Not knocking Barnard actions, as they are very good, but not ideal for field type shooting due to tolerances.
Your choice of stocks and glass is fine.
Caliber - 6.5 or 6mm are the kings. It is all down to BC and recoil - this is where 308 is dead. Decent bc pills pushed fast enough to be competitive generate too much recoil by comparision.
Even the 6.5mm is declining in favour of 6mm, due to the distances being shot. The majority of courses of fire, the targets are between 500-800 metres.
good bc, lack of recoil and the ability to see your impact for correction is why.
If you are wanting to shoot F class, and then shoot prs with same gear/barrel go 6.5 creedmoor - you wont probably win at either, but you will be competitive, which is all you want to be when starting out.

@Gibs, yup Stu and the boys at Target Dynamics are regular competitors on the Field circuit and know what they are talking about.

My comment about Barnard action was when you asked about F-class.

For PRS (or FPR), any Rem 700 style action, or something like a Howa or Tikka would be fine.

PRS is a VERY specific game. At the top end 6mm chamberings are king, matched with heavy competition chassis. Low recoil from uncomfortable positions.

To be honest, time behind the gun, and more specifically time behind the gun IN COMPETITION will take you significantly further than buying flash gear... You could shoot for several seasons using a bog standard Bergara HMR or Tikka CTR.

Buy the next lightly used stock standard Tikka TAC-A1, CTR, Bergara B14 or the like that is listed here and then shoot it lots and lots.
I wouldn’t suggest a custom built rifle if you’re new to shooting. They often have lots of teething problems and idiosyncrasies, especially round feeding.
Being under duress of time and position in practical shooting will be your limitation, not the fact your rifle is capable of a .25” group.

To add:
Optics are far more buy once cry once things and worthy of investment. Just get behind as many as you can as reticles and some features are very subjective to the individual.

I’ve done some f class shooting, no pro. Quite a few of those scopes are ffp probably be fine but some times you dial back the scope in mirage ect reticle may be hard to see. I have converted most my scopes to mill ffp. The targets are usually Moa based and I see moa as an advantage having true subtensions to moa . You would have to convert. I like mills better but second focal plane reticles are a bit easier to me on f class on have done. Prs ffp make 100% sense. In fclass no doubt it will work just have a good think about it. All the pros seem to use sfp khales nf vortex March ect. My opinion .

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Originally Posted by ebf

Speak to the guys at the clubs.

@Cyclops can probably point you in the right direction, I have been out of the fullbore game for a couple of years.

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@ebf's first comment is the best.
If you're in or near Wellington head down to the Trentham range on a Saturday afternoon.
The club members who shoot there are very approachable. Have a talk with them.

A basic rifle and optics can be shot on a NRANZ range in a prone position. Simple rest or bipod or even off a bag (hunter class).
Your scores might not be great but you can learn a lot.

The only stupid question is the one you don't ask.

FWIW my son and I started with an off-the-shelf .223 with 2nd hand scope. It worked and was competitive in lighter winds.
Since then we've moved up in quantity and quality, onto .308 with handloads.

My personal preference is to buy the best you can when you can - even if that means wait a while before purchasing.
Buy second hand, a lot of quality can be bought second hand, specially optics.

For FTR and TR we've used Barnard actions and True-Flite barrels.
I standardised on NF scopes but as my vision gets worse (old age is a b**ch) I've moved to March scopes, more expensive but better quality (for me).

Reloading is another wormhole that you can disappear into.

Remember the aim of the game is to have fun.

Yeh, it's easy (if you have the dosh) to cut loose on a custom gun but equipment alone won't buy you results. Wind reading for a start can't be taught by others. Another aspect is that custom guns have a -serious- depreciation issue when you decide to flick them. As has been suggested, do a season at least on basic/ second-hand gear before deciding on building anything custom.

I have done that journey Gibs. Listen to EBF and Cyclops, go down to Trentham on a Saturday afternoon and ask for me (Daryl). For the time being I have put down the FTR gun and the custom build Barnard and have picked up a Bergara HMR which shoots just as well as the other two. While we don’t do the gung ho styles at Trentham you will at least be able to prove your shooting out to 1000 yds and learn about wind. You won’t need to drop $15k on a rig, but if you drop that much on reloading components you should get fairly competitive! The gem in the advice above was to buy the best scope you can, it doesn’t matter so much what you put it on.

Word of caution, I started out to do exactly what you have in mind. Turned up at the local range where F class and TR class shooters hang out.
Fronted with my bog stangdard CTR T3X 6.5 CM in a carbon stock. Every intention of learning to read the wind. Started out fine and got good hits week after week.
Some bastard conned me into shooting a Target Rifle "just give it a try"
To the demise of my start into PRS I fell into the belly flopping game and love it. The thing I like most after having been involved in "the arms race" with IPSC is the very level playing field this discipline has.

Sorry ran out of time to finish that post.

To start out in PRS

I would look at a T3X CTR add Atlas bottom metal so you can use ASIC's mags and it comes with an extended lever for quick changes. Put it in a better shaped stock for your style of shooting, An adjustable comb is good, get it with V block bedding system.

A 20 MOA rail and the scope of your choice If you like Mils use that, if you are used to MOA stay with that as converting and rethinking will do your head in during competition stress.

CTR's come pre threaded so get a suppressor that can handle volume shooting, A bipod that meets the rules is important and of course all the bags and bits to hang off posts and squeeze when you need to align in difficult places.
All of this gear is easily traded on when you decide to delve deeper.

With the extra currency buy a lot of reloading gear and practice, practice, practice

Thanks guys, appreciate all the advice!

Sounds like going for the high end scope is the priority and look for a half decent second hand rifle for a season or two.

However, you want the ultimate factory out of the box PRS competition rifle:
No gunsmiths required.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZDstC4ZxGU

Still won’t do anything much different to a two thousand odd dollar TAC-A1, CTR or HMR can do. Been there and got beat.

i was getting into the long range stuff, but finances and health have now screwed me over
i have a rem 700 bull barrel, 7mmRM (i was a 308 nut till i went to this calibre)
20moa weaver base, burris rings. 5-25x56mm (30mm tube)
fired maybe 60 rounds from new . comes with ammo if picked up from canterbury
worth 4.5K to replace, asking 3.5
it will need re-sighting as i wasnt happy with the previous base fit. but i did manage to turn a hare into a red vapour at jut under 1km ( ok it was on shot #3 not a single bullet strike)

@Gibs, dont forget, any skill you learn, you grow into. go through a few cycles of gear over a few of years & it'll give you a really good base of knowledge of what you need (or not) to suit you.

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Originally Posted by Stump

@Gibs, dont forget, any skill you learn, you grow into. go through a few cycles of gear over a few of years & it'll give you a really good base of knowledge of what you need (or not) to suit you.

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Or you'll just come to realize that each discipline is pretty gear specific, and end up with multiple rifles and optics:

FTR
Service
Field / Hunting Comps
PRS

oops, did I just say that out loud.... :D

I never said it'll be cheap! but he'll be a knowledgeable fool with all the tools and not with all the gear but no idea!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ebf

Or you'll just come to realize that each discipline is pretty gear specific, and end up with multiple rifles and optics:

FTR
Service
Field / Hunting Comps
PRS

oops, did I just say that out loud.... :D

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I started my F-PR shooting with a Desert Tech SRS A1 rifle chambered in 6.5 Creedmoor with Schmidt Bender PM2 scope last year. It really helped developing the shooting fundamentals.

Most of gears you will use for F-PR can be used for PRS matches as well.