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Hi all,
Arken scopes are having a run out so I’m thinking of just picking something up to replace my little Elite 3200.
I know they are nothing special, but Arken scopes appear to have good tracking for the price point and it will fit my needs.
Would Mil or Moa have a better resale value in nz?. I’m leaning to Moa as it just seems easier to me.
Oh In case anyone is wondering Im looking at the - SH4 4-16X50 GEN2 FFP MOA VPR Illuminated Reticle with Zero Stop - 34mm Tube
Cheers,
Sanctuary
I see Arken is having a 30% off sale but via which website are you looking at ordering? (as I'm also interested).
Arken Optics site only ships within the USA as far as I know.
MOA is still very popular among NZ shooters but I cannot recommend which MOA/MIL would have the best resale value as I'm unsure.
@Hermitage - this site https://www.arkenopticsusa.com/. Rings also 30% off. Stuff I’ll get the MOA and low rings.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermitage
@Hermitage - you were right, no shipping outta USA. I think I was thinking of Optic planet and got all excited at seeing the Arken Sale.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanctuary
Oh well.
I’m conflicted on this. I’ve always had MOA scopes and it was all I really knew, then I had a Z8 for a while and learnt to dial in Mils and there was just something about it that seemed to make more sense than MOA, I can’t really put my finger on it but I liked it. Back to MOA swaros now
Ok
I think Moa is probably used by the Majority of New Zealanders and will as a rule be easier to sell on
However
If you are looking at a medium top to top tier scope, Mil will definitely be easier to shift.
Moa is still super popular but I’m trying to make an effort to change everything over to mill for dialing and that’s the category you are taking about
More to the point what do you want to use while it’s yours?
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Mills make more “sense” In NZ as it’s mm cm meter etc but it’s all that far fucking redundant because at least 99% of us me included are dialing to what our drop chart tells us so the difference between 17.5moa or 6mills is moot . Their will be 1% who use mill reticles to their potential and I’d just about bet 75%of that 1% are shooting paper. In short if your dialing it doesn’t make a difference if your using the reticle and hoping to gauge size and distance the mill will make more sense
Go Mil, there are too many MOA scopes on the NZ market as is.
Everytime a nice scope comes up for sale on here it seems to be in bloody MOA.
Without getting into the nitty gritty of the difference and potential pros/cons, Mil is better/simpler purely because there are less numbers involved (a dope card with Mils looks considerably cleaner than MOA).
You typically will get more elevation per revolution with Mil also so less dialing.
The numbers on the the turrets are cleaner with Mil so its easier to see where you are, or where you need to dial to.
There are no fractions to deal with.
There is just something simplictic about Mil that does't seem like it should matter but it does.
Having your dope card say 8.7mils rather than 29.75moa is just better IMO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beetroot
Yea but with a dope card it makes no difference if anything the example you just gave is easier with moa that’s one click before 30 . mills being in tenths you really need to count them out past the whole number given theirs more hashs between the numbers . Don’t get me wrong I liked the mill scope I had and was wanting mill in my new scope but their was only moa available at the time . We were all generally taught to round up and down at school well mostly so the numbers in moa solutions aren’t really overwhelming or messy . Maybe it is the influx in the nz market that has made it second nature to look at moa as a whole number . Multiple of 25 . 12.31moa I instantly read as 12.25 or 12 and 1 more etc etc . If you’d never had moa I’d recommend going straight for the mill if you only plan on reading of a dope card and using a duplex reticle (me) either will do the trick
Mil's is easier for us not so bright buggers, as said, cleaner, simpler and consequently easier. But moa has been around for so long that is has an ingrained following that will choose moa over mil for years to come. My "almost" perfect scope would be a 2-10 in mil and SFP. And possibly FFP for comps.
My three dialing scope are Mil 2xFFP and one 2-10x42 in Mil that is 2ndFP but that's immaterial as when I dial it , it is on 10power anyway.
Anything point and shoot it doesn't matter to me but I do zero scopes no matter what the click value at 100M not yards. Eg 2.5" High but at 100m for xxx meters given zero
Straying a bit off topic I guess
If you run a “gun number” for wind Mil is really really handy.
For me, it's not an issue whether the scope is graduated in Mils or Moa. As said it's just making sure you get the dope card set up right if you are dialling - and keeping track of where you are in the dials. Zero stop can be good in that regard, wind down to stop and start again. If you change loads often having to reset the zero stop is a pain in the bum though...
Bigger issue for me is first or second focal plane - first is good if you are using known size targets and using the reticle to gauge range because it doesn't matter if the zoom is set to something odd, the reticle is automatically scaled when the scope is zoomed so stays correct for ranging. A FFP scope when zoomed changes the appearance of the reticle which can fuzz with your brain where 2ndFP doesn't have this issue, reticle always appears to be the same size but on the other hand for a 2ndFP scope the reticle is only accurate at one power setting. Also, the FFP reticle can be bloody hard to see at low power depending on lighting and quality of the scope, or cover a lot of the target when on a high power.
The only other comment, is don't get a scope calibrated in MOA but with a mildot or mil ranging reticle - they were a pain in the arse when they came out and still are a pain in the arse. To be fully correct and accurate if you use the reticle for ranging, you have to use the mildots to range then convert your ranging result to a measurement and then work out the number of 1/4MOA clicks you need to turn the scope to match the measurement and range. That just hurt my brain...
The 34mm tube will fuck you more for resale then the mil/moa question.
And to be honest, should resale value of an already cheap scope really be a deciding factor?
60% of the Arkens we sell would be Mil, 40% MOA. The buyers still dabbling with MOA would be those who have grown up with MOA and don't want to change. Newer buyers getting into precision shooting tend to go Mil as it seems to be the most logical choice.
34mm is becoming more popular with customers wanting optics with decent amounts of elevation.
The Arkens are a unique optic in that they have put the development into the mechanics. If you get a chance, twiddle the turrets on one of the new generation SH4's. They leave the Vortex PST, Strike Eagle etc dead.
Just learn mrad you wont regret it. simple numbering. the only time i wouldn't recommend it is for fclass. as sub tensions on targets lend them selves to moa. I started with moa and now run 2/3 mrad. its easy going back and forth. eventually the last one will be mrad. The maths is probably easier on mrad i think
Mrad is the way of the future, it’s a simpler way to dial 4.9 mil than 16.75 moa and easier to remember numbers. A lot of guys I hunt and shoot with now have mil scope and it’s easier talking the same language in wind holds and misses. My next scope I will be getting a mrad.
Just make sure you dont have a mil dot reticle with moa adjust ments. FFP lends itself to proper use of a mil reticle.
The will be people interested in a cheap entry level mil/ mil / FFP system, even if only for their 22.
Strange question, asking about resale value on a new scope before you buy it …
If you are are willing to learn MIL, then IMO it should be the choice.
To get a person started. .1mil (1 click) is 1cm at 100m. 1mil is a 10cm circle at 100m.
A problem I see with MIL, is that if a new person from a metric country such as NZ tries to read up about it online, they get confused by Americans trying to use MIL with inches and yards. Don't do that.
Communication and simplicity of math's is why MILs is arguably better, imo.
There really isn't anything to learn with either MOA or Mil unless you are rangefinder with the reticle (which virtually no one does).
You dope gives you a number and you dial it or hold it in the reticle.
If your scope has a milling type reticle you don't need to convert to a linear measurement, you just use the reticle to measure where your shots went and dial the equivalent into the scope.