NZDA - rifle range use

A few of years ago, a mate and I visited the Taupo NZDA range, and for a donation ( which was gladly given) we rocked up, burnt some powder, and ironed out a few issues with the hunting rifle. That was great I thought, so I joined the Tauranga NZDA, just when they were getting ready to build their new range. I never intended to enter shoots etc, I just wanted a place to sight in my rifle. I donated some money on top of my fees, and also joined a couple of working b's to help build the range. When the range was finished, I then found a number of restrictions around when I could go for a blast, and having to attend some course, plus pay a one off fee, and a key fee and I can't remember what else. Bottom line, I said shag this, sent a note to the secretary asking if there was any way I could just use the range very infrequently for sighting in without all the red tape. Unfortunately, that could not be done, so I reluctantly cancelled my registration, along with a letter explaining why.
I am not at all bitter, just disheartened that such a great asset as a new range is hamstrung by so many rules and regulations

Is it now the same at all NZDA ranges?? Has Health and Safety taken over all ranges??

Health and safety seems quite reasonable given the lethal nature of the items used there and the frequently incredibly unsafe behaviour displayed with them by various users

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Originally Posted by gimp

Health and safety seems quite reasonable given the lethal nature of the items used there and the frequently incredibly unsafe behaviour displayed with them by various users

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Unfortunately I would have to agree with that statement, I wish I didn't but I do based on what I have personally witnessed at Public Ranges.

A fresh viewpoint: the rules are there to attempt to reduce the chance that you will be shot by some fucking idiot with no concept of safe firearm use, who is just there to sight in their hunting rifle

Agreed Gimp, wait till you go to a country that allows concealed carry. In Cape Town I got to a point where I would ask the visitors to grip their ear lobes or something similar and then to TELL me, not to show me what state their pistol or revolver was in. Lost count of the amount of times someone pulled out a gun and shoved it in my direction to show that it was safe...

That and idiots turning around 180 when they got a stoppage...

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Originally Posted by ebf

Agreed Gimp, wait till you go to a country that allows concealed carry. In Cape Town I got to a point where I would ask the visitors to grip their ear lobes or something similar and then to TELL me, not to show me what state their pistol or revolver was in. Lost count of the amount of times someone pulled out a gun and shoved it in my direction to show that it was safe...

That and idiots turning around 180 when they got a stoppage...

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I think that the addition of a proficiency test / certificate to the FAL application was a step in the right direction to attempt to address the above.

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Originally Posted by Lentil

A few of years ago, a mate and I visited the Taupo NZDA range, and for a donation ( which was gladly given) we rocked up, burnt some powder, and ironed out a few issues with the hunting rifle. That was great I thought, so I joined the Tauranga NZDA, just when they were getting ready to build their new range. I never intended to enter shoots etc, I just wanted a place to sight in my rifle. I donated some money on top of my fees, and also joined a couple of working b's to help build the range. When the range was finished, I then found a number of restrictions around when I could go for a blast, and having to attend some course, plus pay a one off fee, and a key fee and I can't remember what else. Bottom line, I said shag this, sent a note to the secretary asking if there was any way I could just use the range very infrequently for sighting in without all the red tape. Unfortunately, that could not be done, so I reluctantly cancelled my registration, along with a letter explaining why.
I am not at all bitter, just disheartened that such a great asset as a new range is hamstrung by so many rules and regulations

Is it now the same at all NZDA ranges?? Has Health and Safety taken over all ranges??

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Actually I think you are being a little precious Lentil. Its not that hard to get your own key and go up whenever you want. All you need to do is (assuming you are a member of the club):

1) Attend 3 public days to do 3 inductions on the range standing orders (these were done very frequently when the range was first opened so existing members could get through them quickly)
2) Pay your annual range fee ($50 I think)
3) Pay a one off $20 range key fee

Then bingo! You have access to the range as long as the park is open which is from sun up to sun down. Its not that hard.

The rules are there to protect the club, its users and the public. The land the range is on is leased from council and the NZDA have to abide by their rules (albeit some are a little over the top). If you look at the costs to be a member of other public ranges with the same level of facilities (which are constantly being improved) its not very expensive, especially when you compare them to the overseas ranges that i have been to.

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Originally Posted by Ryan

I think that the addition of a proficiency test / certificate to the FAL application was a step in the right direction to attempt to address the above.

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They do exactly this in Canada in order to get your Firearms License, it works great!

I would encourage it to be a requirement of the NZ FAL application process too.

I have two friends who've just been awarded their FAL and both are quite inexperienced with firearms. Of course I was only too happy to demonstrate safe handling procedures and let them try the various steps for themselves in a controlled environment, so that they felt more confident about handling firearms.

I feel that other new licencees who may not have friends or relatives that can show them the ropes, could do with more practical experience before being awarded their FAL.

In NZ there is more emphasis on whether you are "fit & proper" enough to be in possession of a firearm than anything else. This is all well and good, but does not assist with learning basic competencies with handling firearms. Which reflects your comments about your friends, they are fit and proper but have no practical experience which they have to rely on others to teach them, whose own experience and competency can vary vastly also.

Learning how to check, clear and handle a firearm in a controlled environment like they teach you in Canada is a far better option.

Sounds like the committee of this range need to strike a balance between safety and sanity. Ridiculous safety rules make shooting not fun, just as much as none.

Its only the public days that are a bit tedious. Having your own key and heading up there with a couple of other range ticket holders on a weeknight or weekend day that is not public day is pretty sweet. We have plenty of fun shooting, very relaxing and informal. The rules are pretty much the same as other formal shooting ranges, I guess its just that a lot of locals are used to sighting in in a paddock or forestry cut line where there are no rules.

As for this new stance on not allowing AR platforms, well that's just bullshit, first I heard of it was on here, not in the latest newsletter. The guys with the 100 year old military rifles shooting dodgy reloads are a far greater hazard (there are plenty of those type up there on a public day).

I love the local range. Rock up, pay 2 bucks shoot. Even mag dumps if you want.

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Originally Posted by Beavis

I love the local range. Rock up, pay 2 bucks shoot. Even mag dumps if you want.

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I'm jealous. :sick:

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Originally Posted by Bryan

Actually I think you are being a little precious Lentil. Its not that hard to get your own key and go up whenever you want. All you need to do is (assuming you are a member of the club):

1) Attend 3 public days to do 3 inductions on the range standing orders (these were done very frequently when the range was first opened so existing members could get through them quickly)
2) Pay your annual range fee ($50 I think)
3) Pay a one off $20 range key fee

Then bingo! You have access to the range as long as the park is open which is from sun up to sun down. Its not that hard.

The rules are there to protect the club, its users and the public. The land the range is on is leased from council and the NZDA have to abide by their rules (albeit some are a little over the top). If you look at the costs to be a member of other public ranges with the same level of facilities (which are constantly being improved) its not very expensive, especially when you compare them to the overseas ranges that i have been to.

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I really wanted to know if that is the case at most ranges. I can understand the defensive replies - after all, you probably put in a lot of time and effort into the Tauranga range. Good on you if that suits you, and your amount of use justifies the fees charged. For me with a 3 - 4 times a year use, the costs involved would not be worth it, and I chose to not bother. I don't think that makes me precious.

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Originally Posted by gimp

A fresh viewpoint: the rules are there to attempt to reduce the chance that you will be shot by some fucking idiot with no concept of safe firearm use, who is just there to sight in their hunting rifle

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Hahahaha. It must be really inconvenient having ordinary hunters sighting in their rifles. Most of them do have very good concepts of safe firearm use. It is interesting that you combined the two concepts - fucking idiots, and sighting in hunting rifles. Deliberate or accidental??

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Originally Posted by Lentil

I really wanted to know if that is the case at most ranges. I can understand the defensive replies - after all, you probably put in a lot of time and effort into the Tauranga range. Good on you if that suits you, and your amount of use justifies the fees charged. For me with a 3 - 4 times a year use, the costs involved would not be worth it, and I chose to not bother. I don't think that makes me precious.

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I can just about understand that, if I hardly ever changed ammo and only sighted in a couple of times a year, id just put up some cardboard on a farm and keep the fifty bucks too. or I suppose go on the public days once a month.
its not until you hand load and need to do lots of testing you can justify the cost.

I read your initial post again Lentil and understand where you are coming from, it would be frustrating in your situation. If you are only going to use the range only a couple of times a year its not worth jumping through all the hoops. The one public day every month may suit your needs.

The ranges I went to overseas had annual fees in the high $100's so to me the Tect Park Range fees are minor in comparison.

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Originally Posted by Ryan

I'm jealous. :sick:

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Me too.

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Originally Posted by Bryan

I read your initial post again Lentil and understand where you are coming from, it would be frustrating in your situation. If you are only going to use the range only a couple of times a year its not worth jumping through all the hoops. The one public day every month may suit your needs.

The ranges I went to overseas had annual fees in the high $100's so to me the Tect Park Range fees are minor in comparison.

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Yes Bryan. I can relate back to the game bird licence. I hunt the whole season and really get my moneys worth, and I do not begrudge the fee charged. However, you will see a lot of people complaining about the fee, because they only shoot opening weekend. It's the same situation for me with the range fees. It is my choice not to participate in all the activities, but I am disappointed that there is not a provision for people like me to only use the range infrequently, and pay a reasonable fee/donation like Taupo.

Its very true what you say regarding the game bird licence, a lot of people I know only shoot opening weekend & it makes for a very expensive handful of birds.

I suppose it boils down to liability, as the club does not own the land the range sits on, there is a risk of loosing the access if an 'incident' were to occur.

i am not sure on the rules regarding this, but could you not go up there accompanied by one of the range officers and pay the same fee as the public day to shoot under their supervision? A lot of the range officers go up there almost on a weekly basis for various reasons and tagging along shouldn't be too much of a hassle for them. Quite a few of them are good buggers and as long as its legit I am sure you would find someone who is willing to help? Their details are on every monthly newsletter which you can get from the branch website.

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Originally Posted by Bryan

Its very true what you say regarding the game bird licence, a lot of people I know only shoot opening weekend & it makes for a very expensive handful of birds.

I suppose it boils down to liability, as the club does not own the land the range sits on, there is a risk of loosing the access if an 'incident' were to occur.

i am not sure on the rules regarding this, but could you not go up there accompanied by one of the range officers and pay the same fee as the public day to shoot under their supervision? A lot of the range officers go up there almost on a weekly basis for various reasons and tagging along shouldn't be too much of a hassle for them. Quite a few of them are good buggers and as long as its legit I am sure you would find someone who is willing to help? Their details are on every monthly newsletter which you can get from the branch website.

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Thanks for the info. I will check that out.

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Originally Posted by Lentil

I really wanted to know if that is the case at most ranges. I can understand the defensive replies - after all, you probably put in a lot of time and effort into the Tauranga range. Good on you if that suits you, and your amount of use justifies the fees charged. For me with a 3 - 4 times a year use, the costs involved would not be worth it, and I chose to not bother. I don't think that makes me precious.

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I'm with youId love to shoot the range, but I'm not into the red tape and rules,seems like more of a commercial operation. The range I shoot is extremely safe and well run and we know every one personally, only prob, it's short one end.
I haven't been to Tect Park,but will get there for a look next year.

Tokoroa (TSSC) is less bound by 20-teensy best practice but you will pay almost as much by the time you get an associate membership and a key. If you want a change of company to another bunch of good sorts, make enquiries and go to a South Waikato NZDA range day. Only 200m but an excellent range. Another alternative is the Rotorua NZDA range open days each month and it has 300m too. I don't know if members can go there at random.
Some of the TECT required procedures are a bit cumbersome ... but not impossible. If I lived in Tauranga I'd grin and bear it and make use of a great facility, specially if you had a hand in building.

quite simple - comply or take a hike..... I would expect other NZDA ranges are just as "complicated" and i would happily defend position. We have alot of troubles with clowns in nelson miss using the facility

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Originally Posted by gimp

A fresh viewpoint: the rules are there to attempt to reduce the chance that you will be shot by some fucking idiot with no concept of safe firearm use, who is just there to sight in their hunting rifle

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I think gun shops should encourage new owners of hunting rifles to sight in their rifle at rifle ranges for 2 reasons. Or better still - take them
1) it's a chance for them to learn some safety skills and become comfortable with their new weapon and become more responsible.
2) Most gun clubs are always looking for new members so why not use sighting in as a way to introduce them to a club and sign'em up.
My son always listens to other adults more than me ... that's worth a lot.
Just a thought ... keep safe in the hills.

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Originally Posted by Lentil

A few of years ago, a mate and I visited the Taupo NZDA range, and for a donation ( which was gladly given) we rocked up, burnt some powder, and ironed out a few issues with the hunting rifle. That was great I thought, so I joined the Tauranga NZDA, just when they were getting ready to build their new range. I never intended to enter shoots etc, I just wanted a place to sight in my rifle. I donated some money on top of my fees, and also joined a couple of working b's to help build the range. When the range was finished, I then found a number of restrictions around when I could go for a blast, and having to attend some course, plus pay a one off fee, and a key fee and I can't remember what else. Bottom line, I said shag this, sent a note to the secretary asking if there was any way I could just use the range very infrequently for sighting in without all the red tape. Unfortunately, that could not be done, so I reluctantly cancelled my registration, along with a letter explaining why.
I am not at all bitter, just disheartened that such a great asset as a new range is hamstrung by so many rules and regulations

Is it now the same at all NZDA ranges?? Has Health and Safety taken over all ranges??

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I probably shouldn't reply to this, but guys with this sort of attitude really piss me off. Having been on the branch committee, i recall the meeting where this guys letter was read out. He basically joined the club one year, turned up to one working bee for a couple of hours on a Saturday morning to put in an appearance and do a bit of shovel work, then left everyone else to it for the remainder of the day. There were probably 30 other volunteers there that day. Then another 20 the next day. There have also been numerous other working bees, and over 1500 hours of volunteer labour to actually build that range, for the benefit of the membership and shooting public. Some guys took days of work, donated machine time and their own labour, at a cost of hundreds or thousands of dollars to them personally. It was an 8 year mission, and about 2 years in initial construction. We managed to build that range for under $200k to date. If it had been done as a commercial operation it would have been well over a $million - easily. Plus the cost of the land.

So when subs are due we get this letter. The basic gist of that letter was that because 'Lentil' had had a bit of volunteer input at a working bee (on one day), he felt he should be entitled to some sort of discount or relief on the range ticket cost. aye??!!?? What about everyone else? Pretty cheeky asking to be compensated for turning up at a working bee. Nobody else had the nerve to ask for that, or else just not stupid enough to put it in writing! It amazes me how some guys think sometimes. No doubt you can guess what the committee's response was to this guys letter.

Last Sunday of the month 6 or 7 Range Officers also volunteer (at their own expense) to run a public open day for the benefit of 'casuals' (non-members) or members who don't have a range ticket, or those who don't want to join up as a member of the club. For $15.00 fee they can shoot from 9am to 3pm if they want to, under supervision of the duty Range officers. What could be more affordable - or reasonable - than that?

As for the '$2 Taupo' argument, you have to compare apples with apples. Taupo is an old range on private land, with a long history that has paid for itself many times over, and was built at a time before modern regulations and compliance costs. The range is also subsidised by rental on the nearby range cottage, to the tune of about $12k per year (if i have been correctly informed). The BOP TECT range on the other hand is a brand new facility, built to comply with all the modern regulations, and the costs for this have to be met by the users. It is only due the NZDA BOP club itself, and the massive volunteer input that it was constructed at all, and now available at a relatively cheap participating cost for members. At the end of the day, the costs are what they are. What are the alternatives?

Buy you own bit of land, then you can do whatever you want? - In the WBOP area you will be spending at least $600k for that, plus about $200k for resource consent (maybe more - just ask Blackie from LoadedNZ if you don't believe me). Then you add the costs for building the range. Rates would be about $5k per year. Plus you would probably be at least at 1 hours drive from Tauranga CBD just to get clear of the lifestyle blocks, horses, hippies, etc.

$100 to $160 per year for NZDA subs and range ticket looks pretty damn cheap in comparison to that. When viewed in comparison with alot of other things we spend money on in the course of a year, that is f-all, basically. 1.3 tanks of gas for my truck, or a night out for dinner with the missus. Go and shoot 40-50 possums and your costs are covered. Sometimes guys need to look past their nose, or past their (short) pockets.

Or you can spend $50.00 or more on petrol to drive to Taupo to spend the minimum 'donation' of $2 to shoot at Taupo's range.

As for the range rules, they are there for good reason as Bryan stated. The guys who bitch the most about the rules and fees, are usually the ones who are the biggest danger or liability to everyone else. I too have viewed some scary shit are the public range days, including from a few guys who have been through the safety briefing numerous times and who should know better. It only takes one incident on a range like that to screw it up for everyone, then all that volunteer labour (and money) is down the drain. Hopefully then you can see why there is a strong incentive to keep a level of control on the range users to (help to) avoid stupid shit from happening.