Thread: Oceania Defence suppressors

Originally Posted by ChrisF

Hi ODL ,

Just because they THINK they want it , dosnt mean they are right or should be listened to , as MOST have no clue at all RE suppressor design or the trade offs , and plus & minus of design features .
I would NOT worry about a poll , as all they will say is make it so its super short in front of muzzle , and weighs nothing , and makes no noise , doesnt shift POI , and locks in place ie , the impossible dream .
To me a little over hang on say cans that are not QD , is good , and roughly I would look at no more than say 1/3 telescoping over the back , and 2/3 in front of muzzle , its up to YOU to drive the design not the masses , as most have no idea of 1 ) Suppresssor design 2 ) Not much experience with different suppressors from here & overseas .

I take it you have the 2 books by Alan Paulson & the Patent book by NR Parker , if not you should seek these out .
If you PM me with postal address , I can photocopy some articles in suppressors from SAR magazine .

Me I donot worry much about how much a can sticks out past the muzzle , realise our rifles have quite short barrels compared to what was used years ago , so a bit more for a can does not concern me , even with a can , our current rifles are shorter or as short as the rifles used in olden times , ie the Lee Enfields , MNs etc , thats just me however .

P.S. As I realise , that IF I want reasonable sound suppression , then I need to have a reasonable lenght of suppressor in front of muzzle .

Later Chris

Are you trying to be helpful? It is a huge relief to me that such a qualified person such as yourself can make decisions for everybody else... wtf do you know about other peoples experience.... I was probably making suppressors before you were born....

There are differences between efficiency, design, function and appearance. There is a huge difference between marketability and efficiency and asking customers what they like or prefer is a relatively well understood path, well at least for other people it is..

I have no doubt that the guy making what appears to be a good product is more than capable of making what he thinks is most appropriate after considering any information that he is offered.

He asked for feedback, most of what he got wasn't irrational and almost none of it offered design advice apart from broad preferences. So what crawled up your skirt and died?

Originally Posted by ChrisF

Hi ODL ,

Just because they THINK they want it , dosnt mean they are right or should be listened to , as MOST have no clue at all RE suppressor design or the trade offs , and plus & minus of design features .
I would NOT worry about a poll , as all they will say is make it so its super short in front of muzzle , and weighs nothing , and makes no noise , doesnt shift POI , and locks in place ie , the impossible dream .
To me a little over hang on say cans that are not QD , is good , and roughly I would look at no more than say 1/3 telescoping over the back , and 2/3 in front of muzzle , its up to YOU to drive the design not the masses , as most have no idea of 1 ) Suppresssor design 2 ) Not much experience with different suppressors from here & overseas .

I take it you have the 2 books by Alan Paulson & the Patent book by NR Parker , if not you should seek these out .
If you PM me with postal address , I can photocopy some articles in suppressors from SAR magazine .

Me I donot worry much about how much a can sticks out past the muzzle , realise our rifles have quite short barrels compared to what was used years ago , so a bit more for a can does not concern me , even with a can , our current rifles are shorter or as short as the rifles used in olden times , ie the Lee Enfields , MNs etc , thats just me however .

P.S. As I realise , that IF I want reasonable sound suppression , then I need to have a reasonable lenght of suppressor in front of muzzle .

Later Chris

What is the air up there like Chris?

Its probably just ME , but I like a suppressor to actually suppress , I have NEVER heard any one say , this suppressor is too quite ,, make it louder .
Mostly , I am only talking of making the can a few inches longer ,and getting far better result ,
Most here in NZ have not used a can like that made by BT in Switzerland or the old ATEC cans , and If they had , may realise how poor some of the NZ cans rate against them .
And if you read what I said , I would send ODL copies of some of the articles I have on US designs for FREE , and YEAH , In my world thats helping .
Sorry If that offended you , was not meant that way .

Later Chris

I am never one to pass up free info so here is my contact address info: https://oceania-defence.com/index.ph...lqtdg1oqdnl3n7 Thanks for the offer.

I have read Paulsons books and think they are outstanding history. Things have progressed pretty fast in the last decade and everyone wants smaller lighter quieter. IF Paulson does another book, I expect to get a good chunk of a chapter in it! I have been experimenting with all the established baffle shapes and have developed my own shapes that work very well.

There are about four general concepts for suppression and a lot of very subtle tricks that no one will talk about (and neither will I). It takes a lot of time to get the subtle tricks down and a lot of money making experimental models. You can straight up copy designs but unless you understand the concepts, you will never get the full benefit from the copy.

I may have to do as Gimp suggested and accommodate both ends of the scale with the quietest model on the QD.

In my case as a bolt gun hunter, especially in the bush I'd want one as short forward of the barrel as possible, I currently have a 19" barreled rifle that has a gunworks suppressor that is 5" forward, 24" in total & I find it's not ideal for bush hunting & have stopped using it in the bush, which is where I'd like to use a suppressor as you never have time to put ear plugs in, it's fine in open country.

I find my 20" barrelled Sako with ~5.5" muzzle forward can too long when picking my way through bush/scrub etc so I have gone to a shorter option by about 5", with the same barrel length

Originally Posted by gimp

I find my 20" barrelled Sako with ~5.5" muzzle forward can too long when picking my way through bush/scrub etc so I have gone to a shorter option by about 5", with the same barrel length

Doesnt that make the can .5 inch?

Gimp, does that make any difference in sound moderation "to you"? It is a kind of "stupid" question, but, it is to show the others that you may need to go with what your needs are and with what the manufacturer can offer you at the time. I just bought another suppressor for my "long range" ish setup and it is a muzzle forward in about 8-10" what for me is fine.
IMHO, @ODL you have the "basics" in what most of "us" wish and you should focus in two or maybe three line of products for each segment of rifles(bolt and SA). Remember, "it is just a say", "even jesus christ didn't make everybody happy, so why ODL need to?"

My apologies for those who may take it as offensive, i wish "I" could have everything i want in my own way, but i need to be satisfied with what i can have.

All the best guys and girls, ODL keep the great work!

Mac

Originally Posted by Gibo

Doesnt that make the can .5 inch?

Totally different setup... 3 inch shorter action.

Originally Posted by PERRISCICABA

Gimp, does that make any difference in sound moderation "to you"? It is a kind of "stupid" question, but, it is to show the others that you may need to go with what your needs are and with what the manufacturer can offer you at the time. happy

Thats true to a point, but ODL was asking what people would like? Whether everyone can be accomodated is another story all together! A lot of bush hunters I'm sure would like to save there hearing & their dogs without having to turn their rifles into bushpigs.

OK, Just finished testing the new 556 can. It is truly minimalistic for weight and size. This is about the smallest I can build for 556 and keep it hearing safe. This is what I will try to do with the 762. Keep in mind it will be much larger to handle about 85% more powder than the 556.

I will put all the boring details on the web site when I put the new can on. Here is the summary all using A weighting and peak hold using a 14.5" AR15 with M193 55 grain ammo:

5 shots at muzzle with no can and 4136 mic at 1.6 high over grass and 1m left of muzzle - 166.1
5 shots at ear with no can and 4136 mic about 50mm right of my right ear - 157.0
10 shots at muzzle with new ODL 556-45 Samson and 4136 mic at 1.6 high over grass and 1m left of muzzle - 137.4
10 shots at ear with new ODL 556-45 Samson and 4136 mic about 50mm right of my ear - 135.1
10 shots at muzzle with new ODL 556-45 Samson and 4134 mic at 1.6 high over grass and 1m left of muzzle - 138.1

I ran two mics to see if there was any major discrepancy. I would consider .7 to be within the range of what this meter can do. The 4134 only goes up to 150 dB so it will not work at the muzzle without a can. I didn't run chrono data on this test but I have run this ammo heaps of times through this rifle and it runs about 2900-3020 FPS.

Strictly from personal opinion, I would prefer to run no muffs and a can to no can and muffs after shooting the short rifle in a bowl. I will put up some exposure limits from a study done regarding higher level noises next week on my website. It will give an idea of how many shots are "safe" at a given dB rating. As always, it would be better to run plugs and a can, but the study will provide a guide to "safe" exposure limits.

That is looking pretty good @ODL

What are the exact specs on the new 556 can @ODL?

ODL 556-45 Samson specs:

OAL - 170.5
Weight - 167 grams
OD - 38
Aft of can to barrel shoulder - 43
End of muzzle to end of can - 110.5
ID of over barrel section - 19.15
Thread - 1/2-28 tpi
One blast baffle
One end cap baffle
Six intermediate baffles using two designs for primary and secondary.
Bullet aperture is taper cut with an exit hole of 7.6mm.

They will be in heat treat over the weekend and will be coated on Tuesday.

Originally Posted by ODL

ODL 556-45 Samson specs:

OAL - 170.5
Weight - 167 grams
OD - 38
Aft of can to barrel shoulder - 43
End of muzzle to end of can - 110.5
ID of over barrel section - 19.15
Thread - 1/2-28 tpi
One blast baffle
One end cap baffle
Six intermediate baffles using two designs for primary and secondary.
Bullet aperture is taper cut with an exit hole of 7.6mm.

They will be in heat treat over the weekend and will be coated on Tuesday.

That is insanely small and light!