Hi ODL ,
Any news on the large bore can , what is it designed for , large magnum rifle or large pistol can ? , also any time I look at the website , most suppressors models are NOT in stock .
Cheers Chris
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Hi ODL ,
Any news on the large bore can , what is it designed for , large magnum rifle or large pistol can ? , also any time I look at the website , most suppressors models are NOT in stock .
Cheers Chris
The big bore can will be for 338 and is not designed yet. It will not be started til the QD is fully operational.
The second part of your question is complex and deserves a proper explanation.
I started out making cans without the benefit of sound testing gear. Once I had the gear and fine tuned what I wanted from a can, I set out to make world class cans. Suppressors that have the features that people want and will stack up to what is offered from the best manufacturers in US and EU. Many manufacturers have gotten so caught up in the mil spec testing that they made cans that are very quiet at the muzzle but fairly loud out the chamber right where your ear is. This does not matter as much with bolt gun cans as you really focus just on making the front end as quiet as possible since you will automatically pick up a 6 to 10 dB reduction at the ear. It is a much harder balancing act on a semi auto.
All design is a compromise but I will provide accurate data on my cans mainly so that the purchaser will be able to determine its usefulness as a safety device for hearing protection. My first 556 cans hit all my design goals of hearing safe at the ear as well as hearing safe at the muzzle (milspec) while being lightweight and very short for overhang. I have not changed the Samson model at all but have made continuous subtle improvements to the 556-45. By making a small change and metering the improvement, I implemented a list of baffle features that work better.
My last 556-45 is quieter than listed in my site due to these improvements. It is too heavy though, and too specific and as such is not going to be continued. The Samson is getting changed to fit all the rifles the original 556-45 was made for and still provide the smaller package but with improved sound at the expense of slightly more overhang from the muzzle. I have tried to keep these units in stock while testing and improving, but occasionally run out. My last batch of cans lasted a week. After this batch of Samson cans is tested, I will publish the data and stock up.
My first 30 cal cans were not as good as I would like them to be. They were hearing safe from a bolt gun at the ear but not good enough at the muzzle or at the chamber on a semi auto. They were very short but I have the ability to make them quieter. As such I have not stocked them on the web site but have been testing and improving them. The 300 BLK can is about ready to release again with very good specs for sub and super and acceptable levels of sound at the ear in 308 on a bolt gun for such a small can. The AR10 can will be out next and will have to deal with shorter barrels. I may not be able to get the sound down to hearing safe on sub 18" barrels at both chamber and muzzle without a lot of length.
Much of the baffle design improvements have come through intensive development of a pistol can. Once you get past the Neilsen device spring tension, all the focus was back into the baffle design which carries over into the other cans as well. After 17 iterations of design changes in different cans, it is ready to compete with the best in the world in sound at half the weight. It is the best compromise of length and sound to fill most user requirements. This can is in stock at one retailer who took all my first order and placed a follow up order. As such, it is not shown in stock in my site but will be next week with a variety of threads for the pistons.
As I get a feel for how much to stock of each can, I will be less likely to run out. However, retailers will always get stock before my site does if a model runs out.
I had a shoot with one of the ODL 45 model. Great little cans and offered great noise suppression (better than the huge half kg gunworks one also at the range)
You could also look at a MAE 224 suppressor. I have one on my AR and it works great. Full steal construction, only 300grs muzzle forward and incredibly low profile. Its diameter is only 30mm and would fit under a troy or samson rail if you wanted. Also good for high rates of fire.
If you have the money for an ODL, jump on it, if you don't the MAE is pretty bloody good and is quieter than a waitaki.
The 224 ST has been developed for the recreational or commercial shooter where high output and or exposure to harsh environments are a daily occurrence. This model will fit on even the shortest barrel lengths with only a minimum of 0.59" (15mm) barre
Keen to see the 338 model when its done, I love my samson one really impressed with noise reduction weight length and it looks cool!
Based on a question from earlier today, would most people rather have a bolt gun can hearing safe at the ear and not worry about the muzzle SPL to keep the length past the muzzle shorter? Or, would you rather keep both hearing safe at the slight (maybe 25 to 50mm longer) extra length past the muzzle.
Personally, I have been next to a mates rifle that went off when I didn't expect them to and would like to get the muzzle blast under 140 if it can be done at a reasonable length. Keep in mind I am not sure that this can be accomplished on the magnum cans. It will take a bit of testing.
Why not both? (Different models)
I know I know stock and R&D costs
@ODL are the new AR15 suppressors for sale yet?
For me, I will be running a bolt 308 with a short barrel, I would like it as short/light as possible and hearing safe... I would prob also be running it on 6.5mm and 6mm bolt guns
I can't imagine running a 30 cal semi...
I would prob run a 223 semi but would have a different can for that anyway..
Hi like the idea of having a a bolt action dedicated 30 cal (for 308 )suppressor with a good bit of return over the barrel and no longer than a 100mm past the muzzle. With maybe two barrel outside diameter options: one for tikka lite/ Remington sps the other for varmint profil 21 to 23mm diametre barrel.
Also a suppressor that can cover the 6mm/ 6.5 need would be good. As the next upsize popular calibres are 270 and7-08 and these can be run on a 30 cal sup
Hearing safe for the shooter with as short a forward length as possible.
Realise that the best/easy way to get good sound reduction is with lenght in front of muzzle , and not behind it as in reflex type designs .
I just picked them up last night. I quickly installed it on my rifle and my initial impression is favorable. I will clean these up, bead blast them and give them a sound test on the next clear day. I am holding off til early next week to heat treat since I have one part to go on that tooling has not arrived for. I should have them ready to go by wed or thursday. I only made two of these to start and I will let you have first choice on the second one before putting it on the site. After they test up, I will get a bunch built for stock.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shamus
This is the dilemma and why I asked the question. I wish I could put a poll up here.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisF
From what I am hearing, most people would rather have reduced length and maintain hearing safe at the ear while sacrificing hearing safe at the muzzle. If I am reading this wrong, more people need to speak up. I intend to make the general purpose bolt can accommodate up to 23mm barrels. I will probably only run 30 - 40 mm or so over the barrel for strength and barrel protection in a fall.
I am beginning to get feedback on the QD. The biggest compliant is not enough grip on the twist lock and lack of tactile index marks for installing in the dark. No complaints on the functions. Easy fixes all. This is pretty good news since the QD will have been hammered pretty hard by a number of different operators at this stage.
Sounds good :)Quote:
Originally Posted by ODL
YES, you can do a pool. Somewhere in the thread you have this option, have a look on top right of the thread. Or maybe it is when you start the new Thread the forum system give you the option.Quote:
Originally Posted by ODL
Hope it helps.
Mac
guessing but I would think your 30 cal down market is more likely to be bolt guns than semis....
I tried to make a poll thread several times. I checked the box for poll, but nothing happened. Usually when poll is checked, the number of choices pops up so you can put in the text. I can't seem to get it to work.
The semi auto can will be harder to make hearing safe but all design that goes into it will also go into the bolt can. The main difference is that the bolt can has the ability to be very quiet at the ear and quiet at the muzzle a lot easier than the semi.
Hi ODL ,
Just because they THINK they want it , dosnt mean they are right or should be listened to , as MOST have no clue at all RE suppressor design or the trade offs , and plus & minus of design features .
I would NOT worry about a poll , as all they will say is make it so its super short in front of muzzle , and weighs nothing , and makes no noise , doesnt shift POI , and locks in place ie , the impossible dream .
To me a little over hang on say cans that are not QD , is good , and roughly I would look at no more than say 1/3 telescoping over the back , and 2/3 in front of muzzle , its up to YOU to drive the design not the masses , as most have no idea of 1 ) Suppresssor design 2 ) Not much experience with different suppressors from here & overseas .
I take it you have the 2 books by Alan Paulson & the Patent book by NR Parker , if not you should seek these out .
If you PM me with postal address , I can photocopy some articles in suppressors from SAR magazine .
Me I donot worry much about how much a can sticks out past the muzzle , realise our rifles have quite short barrels compared to what was used years ago , so a bit more for a can does not concern me , even with a can , our current rifles are shorter or as short as the rifles used in olden times , ie the Lee Enfields , MNs etc , thats just me however .
P.S. As I realise , that IF I want reasonable sound suppression , then I need to have a reasonable lenght of suppressor in front of muzzle .
Later Chris
Opps , missed 3 out , it also should not wear out ever , not rust ever & stay cool ( cold to touch ) .
Bro, you are hardcore!Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisF
Are you trying to be helpful? It is a huge relief to me that such a qualified person such as yourself can make decisions for everybody else... wtf do you know about other peoples experience.... I was probably making suppressors before you were born....Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisF
There are differences between efficiency, design, function and appearance. There is a huge difference between marketability and efficiency and asking customers what they like or prefer is a relatively well understood path, well at least for other people it is..
I have no doubt that the guy making what appears to be a good product is more than capable of making what he thinks is most appropriate after considering any information that he is offered.
He asked for feedback, most of what he got wasn't irrational and almost none of it offered design advice apart from broad preferences. So what crawled up your skirt and died?
What is the air up there like Chris?Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisF
Its probably just ME , but I like a suppressor to actually suppress , I have NEVER heard any one say , this suppressor is too quite ,, make it louder .
Mostly , I am only talking of making the can a few inches longer ,and getting far better result ,
Most here in NZ have not used a can like that made by BT in Switzerland or the old ATEC cans , and If they had , may realise how poor some of the NZ cans rate against them .
And if you read what I said , I would send ODL copies of some of the articles I have on US designs for FREE , and YEAH , In my world thats helping .
Sorry If that offended you , was not meant that way .
Later Chris
I am never one to pass up free info so here is my contact address info: https://oceania-defence.com/index.ph...lqtdg1oqdnl3n7 Thanks for the offer.
I have read Paulsons books and think they are outstanding history. Things have progressed pretty fast in the last decade and everyone wants smaller lighter quieter. IF Paulson does another book, I expect to get a good chunk of a chapter in it! I have been experimenting with all the established baffle shapes and have developed my own shapes that work very well.
There are about four general concepts for suppression and a lot of very subtle tricks that no one will talk about (and neither will I). It takes a lot of time to get the subtle tricks down and a lot of money making experimental models. You can straight up copy designs but unless you understand the concepts, you will never get the full benefit from the copy.
I may have to do as Gimp suggested and accommodate both ends of the scale with the quietest model on the QD.
In my case as a bolt gun hunter, especially in the bush I'd want one as short forward of the barrel as possible, I currently have a 19" barreled rifle that has a gunworks suppressor that is 5" forward, 24" in total & I find it's not ideal for bush hunting & have stopped using it in the bush, which is where I'd like to use a suppressor as you never have time to put ear plugs in, it's fine in open country.
I find my 20" barrelled Sako with ~5.5" muzzle forward can too long when picking my way through bush/scrub etc so I have gone to a shorter option by about 5", with the same barrel length
Doesnt that make the can .5 inch?Quote:
Originally Posted by gimp
Gimp, does that make any difference in sound moderation "to you"? It is a kind of "stupid" question, but, it is to show the others that you may need to go with what your needs are and with what the manufacturer can offer you at the time. I just bought another suppressor for my "long range" ish setup and it is a muzzle forward in about 8-10" what for me is fine.
IMHO, @ODL you have the "basics" in what most of "us" wish and you should focus in two or maybe three line of products for each segment of rifles(bolt and SA). Remember, "it is just a say", "even jesus christ didn't make everybody happy, so why ODL need to?"
My apologies for those who may take it as offensive, i wish "I" could have everything i want in my own way, but i need to be satisfied with what i can have.
All the best guys and girls, ODL keep the great work!
Mac
Totally different setup... 3 inch shorter action.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibo
Thats true to a point, but ODL was asking what people would like? Whether everyone can be accomodated is another story all together! A lot of bush hunters I'm sure would like to save there hearing & their dogs without having to turn their rifles into bushpigs.Quote:
Originally Posted by PERRISCICABA
OK, Just finished testing the new 556 can. It is truly minimalistic for weight and size. This is about the smallest I can build for 556 and keep it hearing safe. This is what I will try to do with the 762. Keep in mind it will be much larger to handle about 85% more powder than the 556.
I will put all the boring details on the web site when I put the new can on. Here is the summary all using A weighting and peak hold using a 14.5" AR15 with M193 55 grain ammo:
5 shots at muzzle with no can and 4136 mic at 1.6 high over grass and 1m left of muzzle - 166.1
5 shots at ear with no can and 4136 mic about 50mm right of my right ear - 157.0
10 shots at muzzle with new ODL 556-45 Samson and 4136 mic at 1.6 high over grass and 1m left of muzzle - 137.4
10 shots at ear with new ODL 556-45 Samson and 4136 mic about 50mm right of my ear - 135.1
10 shots at muzzle with new ODL 556-45 Samson and 4134 mic at 1.6 high over grass and 1m left of muzzle - 138.1
I ran two mics to see if there was any major discrepancy. I would consider .7 to be within the range of what this meter can do. The 4134 only goes up to 150 dB so it will not work at the muzzle without a can. I didn't run chrono data on this test but I have run this ammo heaps of times through this rifle and it runs about 2900-3020 FPS.
Strictly from personal opinion, I would prefer to run no muffs and a can to no can and muffs after shooting the short rifle in a bowl. I will put up some exposure limits from a study done regarding higher level noises next week on my website. It will give an idea of how many shots are "safe" at a given dB rating. As always, it would be better to run plugs and a can, but the study will provide a guide to "safe" exposure limits.
That is looking pretty good @ODL
What are the exact specs on the new 556 can @ODL?
ODL 556-45 Samson specs:
OAL - 170.5
Weight - 167 grams
OD - 38
Aft of can to barrel shoulder - 43
End of muzzle to end of can - 110.5
ID of over barrel section - 19.15
Thread - 1/2-28 tpi
One blast baffle
One end cap baffle
Six intermediate baffles using two designs for primary and secondary.
Bullet aperture is taper cut with an exit hole of 7.6mm.
They will be in heat treat over the weekend and will be coated on Tuesday.
That is insanely small and light!Quote:
Originally Posted by ODL
ODL I am still after a can for my 6.5 bolt gun, if only u would make 6.5 or even a 30 cal can threaded 1/2 x 28TPI I would be in for one.
Is this likely to happen ? I know you have concerns regarding "thread strength" but most other can makers will do a can in this calibre with this thread. Is it a particularity with materials you are using that makes this an issue??
It isn't that the threads are too weak so much that for a 308 can they are non standard. I will have to make a custom can and if I do that I might as well make the bore tighter and add your name to it since it will be a one off design.
If you want to get a custom can, let me know how much powder you are using and I will research the muzzle pressure and start the process. It will be dearer than a standard can, but you can customize it for length and even external design if it isn't too involved.
As Chris said, I can make it longer and quieter or shorter and not as quiet. The larger the bore size gets, the less negotiable the length gets to keep it reasonably quiet. The 556-45 Samson is really at the minimums as to what can be done. I basically added 25mm to the length of the original can but reduced the volume to 67% of the original.
Man that is outstanding performance from such a small can.
OK point takenQuote:
Originally Posted by ODL
Please define "hearing safe"