Thread: Old pistol, ornament or ?

Hey guys, helping out a friend who's father has passed with the disposal of the old boys firearms.

Found this ancient pistol in pieces. It's brass and doesn't appear to have a chamber at all, and has a large diameter un-rifled barrel.

It does have various ports in the action.

Thinking it's more than an ornament, maybe an antique starting pistol?

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Are there any proof marks stamped on it? It appears to be a typical example of a flintlock pocket pistol with spring bayonet that were popular in England in the late 1700's to early 1800's, but it could also be a relatively modern replica. Proof marks will determine if it is an original. Originals may be owned without any licence, but replicas require a C endorsement.

Originally Posted by gundoc

Are there any proof marks stamped on it? It appears to be a typical example of a flintlock pocket pistol with spring bayonet that were popular in England in the late 1700's to early 1800's, but it could also be a relatively modern replica. Proof marks will determine if it is an original. Originals may be owned without any licence, but replicas require a C endorsement.

Great info, thank you.

Yes I did see something stamped on it, will confirm and report back.

Cheers

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Originally Posted by gundoc

Are there any proof marks stamped on it? It appears to be a typical example of a flintlock pocket pistol with spring bayonet that were popular in England in the late 1700's to early 1800's, but it could also be a relatively modern replica. Proof marks will determine if it is an original. Originals may be owned without any licence, but replicas require a C endorsement.

Do these marks mean anything?

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Those marks imply that the intended use for this pistol is Elephants, Large Game.

As others have said it is a pocket pistol . It is an octagonal brass barrel/action boxlock muzzle loading black powder flintlock pocket pistol with a bayonet fitted . It was probably made in Liege in Belgium when belgium was part of France , but the ELG proof mark should be in an oval ( the ELG in an oval came in 1810 and was strictly enforced ) so it was probably made before then, when gunmakers proved their own barrels , I doubt it is a modern copy They would have makers name proof marks etc . The pistol was fitted with a safety catch which locked into the frizzen ,( the metal part on top of the barrel that hinges forward ) .
these pistols were made for very close range self defence , hence the lack of sights, the big bore and no rifling. It was made of brass because it resisted corrosion/rust of both sweat in the owners pocket and the black powder load .It would be carried loaded and was seldom fired or cleaned . Most came in pairs .
Most of this sort of pistol has screw barrels , that is they screwed off and the powder charge was loaded into the breach and an oversize ball was placed on top then the barrel screwed back on . This gave a very tight fit to the ball and increased velocity considerably . this one doesn't appear to be a screw barrel.
It is an antique under the arms act and does not need a licence to own , unless it is loaded and fired , something I would not recommend .
Do not dry fire it without something like a piece of wood in the jaws of the hammer and the frizzen down as this can damage the mechanism . You can find pictures of this sort of pistol on the net .If you ever rebuild it pm me and I'll send you a flint for it .

Originally Posted by tanqueray

Those marks imply that the intended use for this pistol is Elephants, Large Game.

Gold

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Originally Posted by Druid

As others have said it is a pocket pistol . It is an octagonal brass barrel/action boxlock muzzle loading black powder flintlock pocket pistol with a bayonet fitted . It was probably made in Liege in Belgium when belgium was part of France , but the ELG proof mark should be in an oval ( the ELG in an oval came in 1810 and was strictly enforced ) so it was probably made before then, when gunmakers proved their own barrels , I doubt it is a modern copy They would have makers name proof marks etc . The pistol was fitted with a safety catch which locked into the frizzen ,( the metal part on top of the barrel that hinges forward ) .
these pistols were made for very close range self defence , hence the lack of sights, the big bore and no rifling. It was made of brass because it resisted corrosion/rust of both sweat in the owners pocket and the black powder load .It would be carried loaded and was seldom fired or cleaned . Most came in pairs .
Most of this sort of pistol has screw barrels , that is they screwed off and the powder charge was loaded into the breach and an oversize ball was placed on top then the barrel screwed back on . This gave a very tight fit to the ball and increased velocity considerably . this one doesn't appear to be a screw barrel.
It is an antique under the arms act and does not need a licence to own , unless it is loaded and fired , something I would not recommend .
Do not dry fire it without something like a piece of wood in the jaws of the hammer and the frizzen down as this can damage the mechanism . You can find pictures of this sort of pistol on the net .If you ever rebuild it pm me and I'll send you a flint for it .

Wow awesome info. You know your stuff.

Thank you!

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@Druid @gundoc

The owner would like to know if this has any monetary value at all (other than scrap or sentimental)

Any info i can pass on to her would be most welcome.

Yes, it is worth a maximum of about $200-250 in its present condition. There are a few things counting against it; spurious manufacture, ostensibly Belgian but the proof mark is not correct (should be in an oval); possibly made for ornamental purposes post the flintlock period (1890-1920); could be of eastern origin; woodwork does not look correct; some key parts missing. By way of comparison, a period correct English example in average but complete condition would be worth $1500-2000, maybe more if by a well-known quality maker.

I would give your local antique arms association a call. Someone may buy it to restore it