Thread: Old Single shot rifle

It is a standard .303 Martini-Enfield rifle and the 98 on the top of the body is the year of the Government purchase order (not necessarily the year of delivery). Not all M-E's were conversions as by the late 1890's the supply of donor Martini-Henrys was drying up and new manufacture of M-E's was undertaken. There are two types of breech blocks, the first being converted from the M-H with a dovetailed plate inserted to fit the smaller diameter firing pin (needed because of the much higher pressure of the .303 cartridge), and the second being the newly manufactured .303 type. I had a carbine in my collection (part of the 1898 order) that was newly manufactured in 1902. The photo of the right side of the action will show the date of the donor rifle. The M-E rifles and carbines were relegated to cadet training well before WW1 and were not completely phased out until the 1960's. I clearly remember a delivery of extra rifles from King Edward barracks in Ch-Ch to Cashmere High School in 1963 that consisted entirely of M-E carbines and NZ Pattern L-E carbines. They were only needed for the one day so we had enough rifles for a full battalion parade, as the school armoury only had about 200 SMLE's.

Originally Posted by gundoc

It is a standard .303 Martini-Enfield rifle and the 98 on the top of the body is the year of the Government purchase order (not necessarily the year of delivery). Not all M-E's were conversions as by the late 1890's the supply of donor Martini-Henrys was drying up and new manufacture of M-E's was undertaken. There are two types of breech blocks, the first being converted from the M-H with a dovetailed plate inserted to fit the smaller diameter firing pin (needed because of the much higher pressure of the .303 cartridge), and the second being the newly manufactured .303 type. I had a carbine in my collection (part of the 1898 order) that was newly manufactured in 1902. The photo of the right side of the action will show the date of the donor rifle. The M-E rifles and carbines were relegated to cadet training well before WW1 and were not completely phased out until the 1960's. I clearly remember a delivery of extra rifles from King Edward barracks in Ch-Ch to Cashmere High School in 1963 that consisted entirely of M-E carbines and NZ Pattern L-E carbines. They were only needed for the one day so we had enough rifles for a full battalion parade, as the school armoury only had about 200 SMLE's.

Thanks @gundoc,
That explains everything. Except why NZ was still buying single shots in the late 1890's. Penny pinching during a depression perhaps.
Regards Grandpamac.

Originally Posted by gundoc

It is a standard .303 Martini-Enfield rifle and the 98 on the top of the body is the year of the Government purchase order (not necessarily the year of delivery). Not all M-E's were conversions as by the late 1890's the supply of donor Martini-Henrys was drying up and new manufacture of M-E's was undertaken. There are two types of breech blocks, the first being converted from the M-H with a dovetailed plate inserted to fit the smaller diameter firing pin (needed because of the much higher pressure of the .303 cartridge), and the second being the newly manufactured .303 type. I had a carbine in my collection (part of the 1898 order) that was newly manufactured in 1902. The photo of the right side of the action will show the date of the donor rifle. The M-E rifles and carbines were relegated to cadet training well before WW1 and were not completely phased out until the 1960's. I clearly remember a delivery of extra rifles from King Edward barracks in Ch-Ch to Cashmere High School in 1963 that consisted entirely of M-E carbines and NZ Pattern L-E carbines. They were only needed for the one day so we had enough rifles for a full battalion parade, as the school armoury only had about 200 SMLE's.

Now theres a thought..........Imagine a school today being allowed to even think about having a parade with anything that resembles a rifle......Let alone have to borrow more for it because they only had 200 on hand.....Love it...

Originally Posted by grandpamac

Thanks @gundoc,
That explains everything. Except why NZ was still buying single shots in the late 1890's. Penny pinching during a depression perhaps.
Regards Grandpamac.

It was what they could get - Mummy country was often not the most forthcoming with arms, hence the conversions and 'NZ' pattern contract stuff we got from the non-military manufacturer's.

Nice... I like this game.. Whats mine?

HRB Co stands for Henry Rifle Barrel Company that did the conversion to .303 in 1898. AC II stands for Artillery Carbine Mark II. The fore-end is incorrect but is similar to the first pattern .303 carbines but it is too short between the band and the nose cap. I suspect that the barrel has been shortened, the correct carbine front sight refitted, and the fore-end shortened to be the correct length for the bayonet. The separate nose cap is from a .577/.450 Martini-Henry carbine. there could be other discrepancies that would be more obvious from a physical examination.

Originally Posted by gundoc

HRB Co stands for Henry Rifle Barrel Company that did the conversion to .303 in 1898. AC II stands for Artillery Carbine Mark II. The fore-end is incorrect but is similar to the first pattern .303 carbines but it is too short between the band and the nose cap. I suspect that the barrel has been shortened, the correct carbine front sight refitted, and the fore-end shortened to be the correct length for the bayonet. The separate nose cap is from a .577/.450 Martini-Henry carbine. there could be other discrepancies that would be more obvious from a physical examination.

Thank you for the HRB co info. What does the ICI on the other side stand for?
The barrel hasnt been shortened, it is the factory artillary carbine length, the fore wood is from a rifle length ME that had the front cut off and shaped without the end cap. This is why the barrel band is further forward. A common mod done by local armorer's for the cadets/schools. I added the nose cap and have been hunting for the correct mkII fore wood that doesnt have a barrel band to replace it at some stage.

It looked like this:



It should and will eventually look like the one at the bottom of this pic:

IC1 interchangeable carbine 1 the idea was to make one that with a change in stock could be used by both arms needing a shorter rifle.

Originally Posted by Tommy

How many complete carbines are around in NZ?

Quite a few. I seem to come across them more than the longs

Bloody great thread this
Just saying

Found this

Interesting

Great thread.

It would be interesting to know how many Martini Enfield's were ordered and delivered to NZ?

Dad has an original unconverted one in 577-450 complete with bayonet
I have a martini sporter in 450/500 BPE
And a custom 45-70 on an me303 action as above
Good rifles