P.L.A don't even use Chinese Scopes

I know that Chinese scopes get a bad reputation, but maybe it is deserved if even their own Army and Police force do not use Chinese made optics.

I've linked an interesting article and although it's 5 years old and things may have changed, back in 2015 the PLA and Chinese Police used Swarovski and Kahles scopes.

"The Chinese military and law enforcement agencies have been using a small number of Swarovski and Kahles scopes on their semi-auto and bolt-action precision rifles. The difference is that the Kahles they have been using were the Helica series of hunting scopes."

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...taiwan-strait/

Could it be the PLA are using Chinese knockoffs of those scopes? Trying real hard not to think this, but that pesky intrusive thought just stays there and makes itself at home.

Yeah you can buy ... to quote the salesman... "almost genuine" Swarovski in Beijing :)

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Originally Posted by vulcannz

Yeah you can buy ... to quote the salesman... "almost genuine" Swarovski in Beijing :)

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Hahaha, they must have gotten better over the years, used to see hilarious Leupold knock-offs where every scope had the same serial number!

That being said, the Chinese can make serious gear when they want to... supposedly their SVD's and AK's are some of the best according to Americans.

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Originally Posted by vulcannz

Yeah you can buy ... to quote the salesman... "almost genuine" Swarovski in Beijing :)

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With a slight correction to, "a genuine copy" it becomes grammatically and factually correct.

His english wasn't that good. Scored seem really decent torches off him though.

so...if Mr. Chinaman takes said kahles scope and reverse engineers it...copies it ALMOST completely perfectly but say changes the turret caps and puts hexagonal ones on for sake of being different so copywrite doesn't apply....IF build quality and glass clarity is up there.sells them as Chinabrand for $399...who is the looser again???
if the glass is nearly as good and the ruggedness is better.....doesnt someone make scopes you can use as a hammer without killing them??? again who is looser???
once upon a time folks bagged Japanese built items.....then they were considered up there with the best quality wise...now some of the brands once considered reliable are chinese /korean made and quality is dropping.....one of these days we will get a 1.5-12x scope with good glass that wont die and hunters will be happy...BUT manufacturers wont sell many as it wont die so last a lifetime.

For the most part we generally know the quality range of scopes coming from different countries ie there is an actual difference between these countries in terms of quality.

Don't expect a Chinese made scope to hold up as well as a Japanese, American or European made scope, nor will the glass be as clear and it's not going to track as well either...I think the PLA realized this after testing the local Chinese optics.

However these days it's very difficult to call an optic 'European', 'American', 'Japanese' etc, after knowing that many optics companies are nothing more than a design firm or marketing firm in Europe or USA which gets what they want made in Asia to their specs. It can be said that even with top-end brands, there is not one European or USA scope manufacturer that does not outsource some part of their scope.. heck even Leupold use Japanese lens.

You never know you might be lucky.
Dad brought a rolex watch for $2 in Bancock. 25 years later its still working perfectly. Some of the gold has worn off though.

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Originally Posted by Brian

You never know you might be lucky.
Dad brought a rolex watch for $2 in Bancock. 25 years later its still working perfectly. Some of the gold has worn off though.

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Reminds me of a mate who named his pig dog 'Rolex'...

Cuz when he wasn't out in the bush being a pig dog, he was at home being a 'watchdog' :thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

so...if Mr. Chinaman takes said kahles scope and reverse engineers it...copies it ALMOST completely perfectly but say changes the turret caps and puts hexagonal ones on for sake of being different so copywrite doesn't apply....IF build quality and glass clarity is up there.sells them as Chinabrand for $399...who is the looser again???
if the glass is nearly as good and the ruggedness is better.....doesnt someone make scopes you can use as a hammer without killing them??? again who is looser???
once upon a time folks bagged Japanese built items.....then they were considered up there with the best quality wise...now some of the brands once considered reliable are chinese /korean made and quality is dropping.....one of these days we will get a 1.5-12x scope with good glass that wont die and hunters will be happy...BUT manufacturers wont sell many as it wont die so last a lifetime.

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Yes, I remember the smirk when people referred to "Made in Japan", not so any more. I do wonder if that derision was deserved considering the build quality of my 1932 Arisaka. Some of it surely was racism, in a time period when Japanese were caricatured as slant eyed, short sighted, little people with bucked teeth. Such erroneous thinking lead to spectacular mistakes, cf. the ends of the battleship HMS Prince of Wales and the cruiser HMS Repulse.

"Made in Hong Kong" later took over the derision niche, since then "Made in HK" has become "Made in China". The quality is the entire spectrum.

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

so...if Mr. Chinaman takes said kahles scope and reverse engineers it...copies it ALMOST completely perfectly but say changes the turret caps and puts hexagonal ones on for sake of being different so copywrite doesn't apply....IF build quality and glass clarity is up there.sells them as Chinabrand for $399...who is the looser again???
if the glass is nearly as good and the ruggedness is better.....doesnt someone make scopes you can use as a hammer without killing them??? again who is looser???
once upon a time folks bagged Japanese built items.....then they were considered up there with the best quality wise...now some of the brands once considered reliable are chinese /korean made and quality is dropping.....one of these days we will get a 1.5-12x scope with good glass that wont die and hunters will be happy...BUT manufacturers wont sell many as it wont die so last a lifetime.

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Trouble is though, there is now a pervasive mindset within China that if you cheat someone for a profit, so long as they remain naive, you were the smart one who came out good.

The Chinese people love Donald Trump to bits, I thought his mindset was very Cantonese (openly fleece everyone you can,but deny all wrongdoing).

Unlike the Japanese there is no 'fall on your sword and rip your own guts out before dishonour' mentality left among the Chinese.

In the 70's and 80's many of the successful bushiness people in China got their start by being absolutely ruthless to their fellow countrymen and women (basically wage slavery) and are no enjoying their big houses overseas with Swiss bank accounts and Western University educated children. There is no real religion left in China as it has been replaced by success and money.

If they are making a commercial product and can cut corners to make a cost saving, it will be done unless the customer specs prevent it.

There is a reason why 'Chinesium' is a recognised term! The stuff tends to be passed off as metal/aluminium and is used in everything from scope mounts to car wheels/rims!

Many firms operating in China employ Western looking people who can secretly speak Mandarin + dialects in order to pick up on if there is any dodgy stuff going on behind the scenes.

Scandals such as recycling old/waste oil and using it for cooking, the melamine in milk, etc. all massive cons.

Does not help when SARS,Bird and Swine Flu and now CV19 have come out of China too!

And this a rant is coming from someone who is partly of Chinese ethnicity :ORLY:

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Originally Posted by caberslash

If they are making a commercial product and can cut corners to make a cost saving, it will be done unless the customer specs prevent it.

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Isn't that called capitalism?

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Originally Posted by eamars

Isn't that called capitalism?

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The technical term for that is "shrinkflation" and while someone is temporarily attaining capital in terms of dollars, they are simultaneously destroying capital (the brand)

Which has been business 101 for decades, though we appear to have run out of value to strip and have borrowed against brands while gutting them.

Not capitalism to speak of. Capitalism will be along shortly to clean up the mess.

A free trade agreement with cleptomaniac communist reverse engineers is flat out the nuttiest piece of foreign policy anyone ever came up with.

The quality in a scope can't be copied. You need to be able to run a company of artisans and that is a cultural issue. NZ could not make them either. Think Remlin.

I have wondered for years why China,Russia etc have not reversed engineered Trijicon type sights & Red dots for use in their Military after all these years of them falling into the other sides hands,even the Russian special forces use American sights .