Thread: Police s45A Mail form - was refused one

Well just went to the local police station to pickup a S45A mail order form and was refused as I did not have the sellers address and Firearm Licence No. Now I thought this was not a requirement to have these details. Some people just don't want to give out there address and they (the seller) is not required to show there licence only the buyer.

I'm so pissed. Do anyone know the basic law about these forms, what required whats not

You need those details end of story. If the seller won't give out those details then something might be dodgy.

Originally Posted by stug

You need those details end of story. If the seller won't give out those details then something might be dodgy.

This is the information I find online

The Police form requesting details of the Seller and information regarding the serial number of the weapon being purchased is incorrect and cannot be insisted upon as the “only form they will sign”. Police have a Statuary duty to sign any form that meets the requirement of Section 43A of the Arms Act 1983.

It's a fucking circus. Three people muttering to each other behind the counter conferring in what they're supposed to do?! They aren't up to it, hand it over to someone else who can I reckon

Yep I've had the same problem, guys FAL only had a box number on it WHEN he checked it on the computer! How does that work? Anyway had to get a street address! They'd probably been looking for him for years!

Originally Posted by Trevs

Well just went to the local police station to pickup a S45A mail order form and was refused as I did not have the sellers address and Firearm Licence No. Now I thought this was not a requirement to have these details. Some people just don't want to give out there address and they (the seller) is not required to show there licence only the buyer.

It's not the law but it's the process that happens. Besides, what's the big deal for the seller to not show their FAL ? A lot of folks bitch and moan about stolen firearms and criminals - this basic process is one simple way to help reduce the selling of stolen firearms.

Some people don't want to give out their address

Do you mean some sellers aren't keen to give out their address to another FAL owner ? Or do you mean they don't want to give out their address to the Police ?

I've had this problem. I went to buy a firearm off TM, went to copshop to get a form and didn't have the info of the seller and was refused the form.
I got around it by having the seller take the firearm to local HF shop and posted it that way.

I also had similar problem when I bought from a dealer in North Island. I didn't have their dealer number and they wouldn't give it out. So I phoned them from the police station, passed the phone to the officer to talk to them, he took the number direct.

Good news I got the police to sign it. I went back and stood my ground. Stated to them. I was wrong when I stated the form being S45A when its a S43A
'The Police form requesting details of the Seller and information regarding the serial number of the weapon being purchased is incorrect and cannot be insisted upon as the “only form they will sign”. Police have a Statuary duty to sign any form that meets the requirement of Section 43A of the Arms Act 1983.


And then read out the Police Manual section 1.36

Ammunition
A person who sells/supplies ammunition does not require a Firearms Licence. A person in
possession of ammunition does not require a Firearms Licence, but must possess it for
lawful, proper and sufficient purpose (Section 45, Arms Act 1983).

Then I repeated those statements again and ask them to read the Section 45, Arms Act 1983....

Result! Good on you for standing up and explaining what they should already know. Fast losing patience with this sort of incompetent stickler standing behind a counter. They see it as their duty to stand in the way for the sake of it

Having read S43A of the arms act there is no mention of the requirement to supply the police any of the firearm details, address or most of the info they "require" All the form is required to say is that the police have inspected the purchasers firearms license and is satisfied that the purchaser is a fit and proper person to purchase that firearm or ammunition. See below. Now I have no problem filling out most of the form, but considering it is sent to the seller, why does the seller need to know where the seller lives? surely they already know, they live there.

Quoted from http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/p....html#DLM72906

though some formatting did not work on this post.


Mail order sale of firearm or ammunition

(1) Every person commits an offence and is liable on conviction to a fine not exceeding $1,000 who sells by mail order a firearm or any ammunition for a firearm or restricted weapon otherwise than pursuant to a written order—

. (a) signed by the purchaser; and

. (b) bearing an endorsement signed by a member of the Police and stating that the member of the Police—

. -(i) has inspected the purchaser's firearms licence; and

. -(ii) is satisfied that the purchaser is a fit and proper person to purchase that firearm or ammunition.

(2) Nothing in this section applies in relation to—

. (a) any pistol, restricted weapon, or military style semi-automatic firearm; or

. (b) any ammunition for a firearm to which paragraph (a) or paragraph (b) or paragraph (c) of section 22(1) applies.

Section 43A: inserted, on 1 November 1992, by section 21 of the Arms Amendment Act 1992 (1992 No 95).

Section 43A(1): amended, on 1 July 2013, by section 413 of the Criminal Procedure Act 2011 (2011 No 81).

Originally Posted by timattalon

Having read S43A of the arms act there is no mention of the requirement to supply the police any of the firearm details, address or most of the info they "require" All the form is required to say is that the police have inspected the purchasers firearms license and is satisfied that the purchaser is a fit and proper person to purchase that firearm or ammunition. See below. Now I have no problem filling out most of the form, but considering it is sent to the seller, why does the seller need to know where the seller lives? surely they already know, they live there.

Quoted from Arms Act 1983 No 44 (as at 01 January 2014), Public Act – New Zealand Legislation

though some formatting did not work on this post.


Mail order sale of firearm or ammunition

(1) Every person commits an offence and is liable on conviction to a fine not exceeding $1,000 who sells by mail order a firearm or any ammunition for a firearm or restricted weapon otherwise than pursuant to a written order—

. (a) signed by the purchaser; and

. (b) bearing an endorsement signed by a member of the Police and stating that the member of the Police—

. -(i) has inspected the purchaser's firearms licence; and

. -(ii) is satisfied that the purchaser is a fit and proper person to purchase that firearm or ammunition.

(2) Nothing in this section applies in relation to—

. (a) any pistol, restricted weapon, or military style semi-automatic firearm; or

. (b) any ammunition for a firearm to which paragraph (a) or paragraph (b) or paragraph (c) of section 22(1) applies.

Section 43A: inserted, on 1 November 1992, by section 21 of the Arms Amendment Act 1992 (1992 No 95).

Section 43A(1): amended, on 1 July 2013, by section 413 of the Criminal Procedure Act 2011 (2011 No 81).

Thanks for that, I'll be printing that off and taking it along next time. (Not to wave around when I walk in the door, but for when Little Miss Fusspot has a spazz and I've tried reasoning etc and it's failed. Ie like last week)

As I understand the law, as it was explained to me by an Arms officer when I when to get said form and them being out of said form that all that was necessary was for a sworn officer to verify that my license was valid, being that it was he photocopied it on to a A4 sheet of paper and wrote his badge number and signed it said that was all that was required, I returned to work faxed the signed paper to the suppler and the goods arrived in due course the AO never even asked what I was buying none of his business, it's just the anal wankers in head office with nothing better to do trying to justify their over paid positions and the poor foot sloggers not understanding the firearms law, my local station staff won't do any firearms related stuff if the AO is away have to wait until she returns, she must get really pissed off after being on holiday for a week coming back to a pile of work that could have been done by any of the worker bees it the hive lazy barstards

Well just went back to get another S43A form and again I was asked to fill in the Sellers details so yip I read my little speech out again. This time I only had to say it once

'The Police form requesting details of the Seller and information regarding the serial number of the weapon being purchased is incorrect and cannot be insisted upon as the “only form they will sign”. Police have a Statuary duty to sign any form that meets the requirement of Section 43A of the Arms Act 1983.


But what I don't understand is I fill in the form they sign it and hand it back to me, they basically don't record anything, they have no record as they don't keep no copy. So its not like they are going or can use any of the information. Anyway I'm happy plus there was no way I was going to leave without getting it signed.

Why can't I just swear my FAL is legal and mine, it's just bullshit. Wonder if the crims get them filled out or just us losers?

Originally Posted by Maca49

Why can't I just swear my FAL is legal and mine, it's just bullshit. Wonder if the crims get them filled out or just us losers?

They would be so easy to fake for a crim, mostly if they want to buy a firearm, just download the form off the internet put any AO name (easy to google it) in there and sign it your self (random scribble), just need different hand writing, use an address of someone who looks like they are on holiday as the purchaser address and a random number (close to a normal number) for a firearm licence no. Only way you would find out its fake if you ring the police station, don't think anyone (Private Sale) would bother to ring and find out.

Like for me there is nothing stopping me from using this same S43A mail order form over and over, there's no Seller information, if there was could easily photo shop it out and the police like I said don't keep a copy so how would they know if I use it more than once.

At the end of the day the whole form is a piece of shit paper that makes it easier for crims to get guns