Question on my first AR.

I am getting this for multigun, no other use for it really. I do plan to get a CMMG .22lr upper, that will see more use on it with myself and the boys.

My plan, good or bad was to build based on aero precision upper/lower (price that works), elftmann 3gun trigger (never had an AR but spoilt with the triggers I have had on others) and the rest is up in the air..

I thought I would go with a 16" barrel so that is somewhat matched the .22lr upper that I wanted to use for practise.

For my various research, this is where I am a little lost, the buffer and buffer tube... If I have a 16" it seems that mid length gas might be the way to go based on recoil.

Now, I know that rifle length and carbine length require different buffers and therefore different stocks. While putting together my wishlist I dont know if I am supposed to be looking at carbine or rifle stocks as I don't know if mid length gas fits in one or none of those configurations.

Any hints would be greatly appreciated.

Also, seems that aero uppers are hard to find in stock at the moment while lowers are in stock at a couple of places.

PS, this is all from the mind of a newbie so feel free to be harsh if ideas are very wrong :)

Thanks!

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Originally Posted by MaW

I am getting this for multigun, no other use for it really. I do plan to get a CMMG .22lr upper, that will see more use on it with myself and the boys.

good idea

My plan, good or bad was to build based on aero precision upper/lower (price that works), elftmann 3gun trigger (never had an AR but spoilt with the triggers I have had on others) and the rest is up in the air..

cant go wrong with aero parts, may want to check that a elftman trigger has enoguh umph to set of a .22

I thought I would go with a 16" barrel so that is somewhat matched the .22lr upper that I wanted to use for practise.

hard to argue with 16" it take all overall lenth issues out of the list of thing to worry about

For my various research, this is where I am a little lost, the buffer and buffer tube... If I have a 16" it seems that mid length gas might be the way to go based on recoil.

Now, I know that rifle length and carbine length require different buffers and therefore different stocks. While putting together my wishlist I dont know if I am supposed to be looking at carbine or rifle stocks as I don't know if mid length gas fits in one or none of those configurations.

Any hints would be greatly appreciated.

Pick the stock you like and then get either a rifle or carbine buffer tube depending on what the stock takes- you can get the corect buffer for any setup to go in either-mid leng gas doesnt really afect this at all,especilly if you fit and adjustable gas block.

Also, seems that aero uppers are hard to find in stock at the moment while lowers are in stock at a couple of places.

nzrac has the monlithic uppers in stock, not to bad price wise when your take into account the fact it includes the handguard

PS, this is all from the mind of a newbie so feel free to be harsh if ideas are very wrong :)

Thanks!

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hope that helps

Sounds all good.
Yes, you can use a carbine or rifle buffer/stock on a mid length AR. Carbine buffer gives you more options for an adjustable stock obviously. The adjustable rifle stocks are pricey.
But main things with an AR are a good barrel, trigger and bolt carrier group.
All the rest can be any of the mid price range parts, you don't have to break the bank for those.

Thanks guys, that clears up the one aspect I didn't see talked about.

Res, yes I had heard about some triggers not working on the .22lr's, I think because they were going for a lighter spring. The elftmann match trigger/3gun trigger 'says' they use a full power hammer spring and I assume they get a light trigger through other parts of their design.

Either way, good advice and I will make sure whatever trigger I get works with both uppers.

Great to know I have options with the stocks, I do like an adjustable one and the other quirk was that I needed to get an acat stock that would work with it as well, for when I take the boys to the range.

I had seen the COP uppers but I want to do a couple bits myself in the workshop and the handguard was one of them :)

Thanks also dogmatix, I agree, going for good stuff where it counts and saving the budget where it doesnt.

Thanks

The new AIL A cat stock is a nice option to fit over a carbine buffer tube and still provide adjustability without going E cat.

tapatalk

Thanks MrDrifter, I need it ecat for multigun, i.e. the magazines and can only see stocks I want in ecat as well.

I wont have to put an acat stock on it too often, just for the kids and hopefully not an onerous exercise to do so once a month or so..

Thanks

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Originally Posted by MaW

Thanks MrDrifter, I need it ecat for multigun, i.e. the magazines and can only see stocks I want in ecat as well.

I wont have to put an acat stock on it too often, just for the kids and hopefully not an onerous exercise to do so once a month or so..

Thanks

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Doesn't matter if you change the stock, it's still registered as E cat therefore no one else can legally shoot it.

MaW I tried an Elfman trigger on my 7.62x3 AR. Nice trigger but it wouldn't fire hard Russian or Chinese primers. I am pretty sure the hammer is lighter so despite the powerful spring it may not work with .22. I suggest you check carefully before purchasing one.

Yes the lower is registered ecat. Good excuse to make an a cat one also:D

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Originally Posted by 300CALMAN

MaW I tried an Elfman trigger on my 7.62x3 AR. Nice trigger but it wouldn't fire hard Russian or Chinese primers. I am pretty sure the hammer is lighter so despite the powerful spring it may not work with .22. I suggest you check carefully before purchasing one.

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Thanks, will do, it's a lot of $$ to put in to a trigger that wont do what I want it to do!

Jexla, correct, it's still an ecat under the law. In a fully acat configuration I guess thats between myself and my conscience if I decide to let the kids use it.

Well it is a stupid law so we won't tell on you.

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Originally Posted by Jexla

Doesn't matter if you change the stock, it's still registered as E cat therefore no one else can legally shoot it.

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Actually that is incorrect.

Having it "registered" as an E cat merely permits you to have it in MSSA configuration. There is no requirement for it to have all or any of the 'bits' that make an MSSA or remain in that configuration.

Once you remove the MSSA features it ceases to be a MSSA.

It will be required to be "de-registered" in order to sell it as an A category firearm.

Or do what I do, have a separate spare A-Cat thumbhole stocked lower receiver for my E-Cat rifles, swap the lower out and take off the flash hider, use 7 shot mags and its a complete A-Cat rifle.

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Originally Posted by Koshogi

Actually that is incorrect.

Having it "registered" as an E cat merely permits you to have it in MSSA configuration. There is no requirement for it to have all or any of the 'bits' that make an MSSA or remain in that configuration.

Once you remove the MSSA features it ceases to be a MSSA.

It will be required to be "de-registered" in order to sell it as an A category firearm.

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No matter it's configuration full stop, if it's registered as an E cat firearm no one but the endorsed person can legally shoot it. It's as simple as that.

Like 300CALMAN said, we don't care, it's a stupid law.

Was just making sure you were aware as to not let someone who might care for no good reason know.

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Originally Posted by Jexla

Was just making sure you were aware as to not let someone who might care for no good reason know.

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Appreciated, we are on the same page.

Also managed to find someone with both an upper and lower aero in stock so I nabbed them. Tick one thing off the list.

Thank!

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Originally Posted by Jexla

Like 300CALMAN said, we don't care, it's a stupid law.

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A stupid law that Joe Green once told me no one had ever been charged with braking even though I have seen it broken in front of him

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Originally Posted by Jexla

No matter it's configuration full stop, if it's registered as an E cat firearm no one but the endorsed person can legally shoot it. It's as simple as that.

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There is no such legal thing as a "registered E Cat".

The Arms Act only refers to the transfer or possession of MSSAs, not for the transfer or possession of "registered E Cats".

A MSSA is defined as:

Arms Act 1983
2 Interpretation
military style semi-automatic firearm means a firearm (other than a pistol) that is—
(a) a semi-automatic firearm having 1 or more of the following features:
(i) a folding or telescopic butt:
(ii) a magazine designed to hold 0.22-inch rimfire cartridges that—
(A) is capable of holding more than 15 cartridges; or
(B) is detachable, and by its appearance indicates that it is capable of holding more than 15 cartridges:
(iii) a magazine (other than one designed to hold 0.22-inch rimfire cartridges) that—
(A) is capable of holding more than 7 cartridges; or
(B) is detachable, and by its appearance indicates that it is capable of holding more than 10 cartridges:
(iv) bayonet lugs:
(v) a flash suppressor:
(vi) a component of a kind defined or described by an order under section 74A as a pistol grip for the purposes of this definition; or
(b) a semi-automatic firearm of a make and model declared by an order under section 74A to be a military style semi-automatic firearm for the purposes of this Act; or
(c) a semi-automatic firearm of a description declared by an order under section 74A to be a military style semi-automatic firearm for the purposes of this Act; or
(d) a semi-automatic firearm that has a feature of a kind defined or described in an order under section 74A as a feature of military style semi-automatic firearms for the purposes of this Act

If the firearm does not possess any of those features, it by definition, is not a MSSA. It is a firearm.

The law no longer requires that firearms or MSSAs remain in that configuration "at all times".

The third flaw is that the definition of ‘sporting configuration’ has been removed. Under the old law, a semi automatic firearm was either a MSSA or in sporting configuration.

These two physical feature configurations were ‘locked in’ by the phrase ‘at all times.’

With the demise of ‘sporting configuration at all times’, a MSSA rifle can now be removed from it’s legal definition by simply taking off the parts that constitute the defined physical features.

Arms Act changes flawed folly - stuff-nation | Stuff.co.nz

So where is the restriction on using a 'registered E Cat" under the supervision of a licence holder in the Arms Act?

Support your claim/interpretation.

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Originally Posted by dogmatix

Or do what I do, have a separate spare A-Cat thumbhole stocked lower receiver for my E-Cat rifles, swap the lower out and take off the flash hider, use 7 shot mags and its a complete A-Cat rifle.

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Off topic but what handguard is that on the middle rifle?

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Originally Posted by Rwt

Off topic but what handguard is that on the middle rifle?

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@Rwt the middle shortie 11.5" build has the Mid West SS Gen 1 free float rail. That one is 9".
Wanted the slimmer Gen 2, but had to get the Gen 1 to have clearance over the JP adjustable gas block.

The unfitted other rail is the factory Schmeisser 2 piece rail.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dogmatix

@Rwt the middle shortie 11.5" build has the Mid West SS Gen 1 free float rail. That one is 9".
Wanted the slimmer Gen 2, but had to get the Gen 1 to have clearance over the JP adjustable gas block.

The unfitted other rail is the factory Schmeisser 2 piece rail.

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Did you manage to get it in NZ or did you have to import it?

Locally from On-Target.co.nz.
NZAR15.com also used to sell them, only seems to have Gen 3 now.