Questions about a new farm gun

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Originally Posted by Pengy

I got a Marlin 22 mag from a forum member a short while ago, and haven't felt the urge to pick up the JW15 since :D
223 is probably not much more expensive to run, and you have the benefit of reloading if you want to.

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Your taste is slowly developing!:redbullsmiley:

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Originally Posted by andyanimal31

tui add!

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Is that what you drink? Flip your really letting yourself down there.
Crack open a speights anytime and you will be surely impressed:-)

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Originally Posted by Ryan_Songhurst

Yes, I have seen that 40gr of lead literally just disintegrate at point blank range. I have also seen a cow that was shot point blank in the head, then farmer went off to get the tractor to remove the dead cow but came back to said cow, standing with blood pissing out it's nose, mouth, ears, eyes, and very much alive, a bloody sobering sight (and no, it was not me who did the shooting, but it was me who got called to shoot it properly with a rifle fit for the job as the cow was now stumbling around delirious and even point blank was impossible), as said, you can tell me it's fine because it's at point blank range untill you are blue in the face and I still won't accept it. Yes, it works, no, it doesn't work 100% of the time, and to assume it does is not taking every reasonable step to ensure that any suffering is minimised.

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My job as an apprentice was to refurb the stun guns for beef at a Borthwicks plant, .22 blank put down thousands of animals, a very cruel way to do the job. I watch a cow take 8 shots with the 2" spike once, slaughterman had a real sweat on loading and firing. We also had a few go down then get back up once the door had released. Few white faces on the board when they emerged at the top of the ramp! Use to herd them into a chiller and my old man would shot them with a .22 through a purpose fit hole in the roof. He would put s few rounds in before they dropped. The good old days huh!:O_O:

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Originally Posted by Ryan_Songhurst

Yes, I have seen that 40gr of lead literally just disintegrate at point blank range. I have also seen a cow that was shot point blank in the head, then farmer went off to get the tractor to remove the dead cow but came back to said cow, standing with blood pissing out it's nose, mouth, ears, eyes, and very much alive, a bloody sobering sight (and no, it was not me who did the shooting, but it was me who got called to shoot it properly with a rifle fit for the job as the cow was now stumbling around delirious and even point blank was impossible), as said, you can tell me it's fine because it's at point blank range untill you are blue in the face and I still won't accept it. Yes, it works, no, it doesn't work 100% of the time, and to assume it does is not taking every reasonable step to ensure that any suffering is minimised.

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Double posts aaaarrrrggghhh

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Originally Posted by Rock river arms hunter

Is that what you drink? Flip your really letting yourself down there.
Crack open a speights anytime and you will be surely impressed:-)

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Mate! I am over qualified in speights as I was born in the womb of speights country Dunedin!
my dad always said I was weaned on it so it's no surprise that I have a healthy penchant for it!
As I can't guzzle like I used to I now partake of the more refined beverages of the craft kind but boy at between $5 and $19 for a 500ml it's an expensive habit to get a hangover!

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Large animals are actually really hard to kill outright and thus you assume the shot is to stun and sever the two neck arteries and break the neck to be sure. If the shot kills it, oh well. Saves the horror of half dead cattle rampaging around the place.

You don't come across any South Africans waxing lyrical about the mighty 223's ability to kill a cape buffalo outright.

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Originally Posted by Proudkiwi

You probably need to get some parameters from her regarding price etc.

There's a world of difference between a new POS Norinco or Toz for example, and a new Cooper.

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Two points to this. Toz (new ones) are very good and well on par with many rifles much more expensive. And there are good norincos and bad ones.

I have found the Toz model 78s have been so good I have nearly sold out and only have a few left. (And I do not have any faulty ones left over...all buyers that I know of are happy)

If you a re referring to the Toz 17s then please bear in mind they are 40 years old and more and still shooting well.....

If after a good 22 there are always the likes of CZ as well. Budget and use. From what I have read so far a 22LR is not really up to what he wants.

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Originally Posted by gadgetman

I'd go for a Howa, Marlin or Zastava in 223 if it were me. Still fine within 100m but more versatile if he wants to stretch a little further or bigger.

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There's some good advice...

fuk buy a 22 for bunnies etc and get a cheap 410 single shot with solids for the Moo's. I've shot a few deer 1/2 a doz and the odd pig with my 22, not to be recommended but it was go home empty otherwise. None escaped but most required a back up shot or two.

I personally use a 44 mag for euthanising cows and a 22 for calves , I have witnessed a 22 mag hit a steer in the head and ricochet by a home kill butcher . The OP should recommend he stick with a 22 for calves and a minimum of a 223 for cows which would also be great for varmints and the odd goat pig or deer.

Thanks for the info guys - this has given me alot of useful points that I had not considered which is exactly why I asked the question. The cheap single shot shotgun might be the go for the cows as he doesnt need it for that too often so this would be good at bridging the gap between regular needs and the other end of the scale.

yes Tim i run botha trusty old40yr toz17 .22 built like a t54 tank and had destroyed two cattle with broken legs in my hands (pointblankrange winchester rabbit ammo.)both thank christ were instant death,be cause a suffering beast i cant stand. i can also understand the POV of those who advocate centrefire for the job -its safer.That old sheila is now in the hands of GSPfollower who likes to relate to bunnies with it.carries a paulus manders suppresor fitted by the man himself over 25yrs ago and its deadly.taken tons of possums rabbits hares and ocasionally ive euthanised kids pets when its that time.with sibs it makes my airrifle sound like a 12g!
recently as a wee treat got meself a norinco .22jw15 shorty -wee beauty for in my truck.
its got two big brothers a norinco .223(sourced through your good self Tim) &a 7.62x39.but if ya wanna play big ball ye trusty ol no4mk1.303 with a 215gn armour piercing round is always a pleasure to watch when it hits.a 180gn rn .303 is also bloody spectacular on possums &hares.-INSTANT COMPOST
No gadgetman -im not bloody executing my sons car collection ..but on second thoughts.
anyhow -Im of the opinion every man selects his own tools according to what he wants and how he does it ,and mine dont let me down.
in saying al this iam not taking the piss out of those who choose to run topline outfits-thats their right and so it should be.

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Originally Posted by Gapped axe

fuk buy a 22 for bunnies etc and get a cheap 410 single shot with solids for the Moo's. I've shot a few deer 1/2 a doz and the odd pig with my 22, not to be recommended but it was go home empty otherwise. None escaped but most required a back up shot or two.

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I'm with GA on this one. Buy a good/better.22 and some sort of shotty using solids on cows for the 'just in case' factor.


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Originally Posted by Pineapple

Thanks for the info guys - this has given me alot of useful points that I had not considered which is exactly why I asked the question. The cheap single shot shotgun might be the go for the cows as he doesnt need it for that too often so this would be good at bridging the gap between regular needs and the other end of the scale.

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no need for solids for cows that are down/only semi mobile any old birdshot load will work fine up close eg under a meter...the clay target loads will do just nicely with added bonus of not kicking the crap out of shooter and good for Pidgeon's in the haybarn too. at range of under 1metre the shot will still be in tight ball if not still inside the wad and will punch its way in but wont over penetrate and exit,and if you cock it up and miss completely the 1000 odd wee pellets bouncing off concrete/rocks aren't as likely to be fatal to bystanders or the tractor as a 1oz hunk of lead.

all the cows ive had to shoot in the yards i used a 357 up close. in some yards a high powed rifle becomes dangerous with concrete floors, steel gates etc

Got a few mates farming all sorts of animals, they are using everything from .22 , .223 , 243 , 308 , 7mm rem mag ,357mag and even one is using a 300aac Blackout for his every day farm gun.
For me I would use a .22 or 300 Blackout but that would all depend on what your farming, what is the main use is and type of terrain.