Thread: Redundant Calibres

Originally Posted by Ranger 888

Problem is today there is too much choice...back in the 1990s the USA churned out 24 new calibres in a year. By contrast the early New Zealand Govt. deer hunters made do with the .303 (open sights) for deer, goats, pigs and wapiti, and private hunters had WW2 surplus 8mm rifles available as well. Then the .222, .243, and .270 calibres crept in. A new generation of hunters now has the .300 RUM, 7mm RUM, .300 WSM, .325 WSM, .270 WSM, 7mm SAUM, 7mm WSM, .223 WSSM, .243 WSSM, .25 WSSM, .338 RUM, .375 RUM, .204 Ruger, .22 Grendel, .22 TCM, 6mm TCU, .28 Nosler, 6.5 PRC, 6.5 Creedmoor, 6.5 Grendel, 7mm LRM, .300 Blackout, .338 Edge, and the .450 Bushmaster. Really? Are these all necessary??

Short answer. No. And some of them are obsolete already. No ammo is currently available for some and may not be again. Some like the 7mm SAUM have gained a foothold in comps like F Class and cases are available. This is a good thread which makes our current bout of shite weather in HB a little more bearable.
GPM.

I’ll put my hand up for one. Even though I posses a rifle in said caliber, you would have to add the .260Rem. Like many others, it’s only handloading keeping it alive given the scarcity of factory ammunition.
What constantly surprises me, in this age of the latest and greatest, is how well the mighty .270Win still holds its own quite comfortably against all these fandangled new comers. And before ya’ll get your panties in a bind, I’m not saying it stands above them, it’s just that it’s still in the mix and not just by the skin of its teeth. It’s in there still duking it out a hundred years on!!

old calibers such as 6.5x55 for example arnt dead
the advantage to the newer equivalents 6.5cm 260rem etc is they are shorter and fit into a short action which makes for a more compact hunting rifle

performance wise they are so similar its not funny

as a handloader the modern calibers offer slightly cheaper shooting as they use slightly less powder for the same or even slightly better performance
if you get 10 or 20 extra rounds per tin of powder over the life of the rifle that accounts for a lot of savings

Originally Posted by XR500

Show me the wharehouses overflowing with mil surplus 6.5 crudmore....

And the 40 plus different projectile styles available...

me old Forest Service Field Officer would have had a name for the 6.5 Crudmore - a squaw gun - long live the mighty .270

Originally Posted by Beavis

7.62x39 has become largely redundant in NZ

I hope not. Tossing up whether to sell the ammo or buy a decent rifle for it.
Looking more and more like the first option.
Got a jw103 which is good for cold bore plus one or two but the pencil barrel is no good for long plinking sessions

It just comes down to what you like I suppose - I've had 7mm Rem mag, .280, .270 and I've fired a bunch of others - and some gave me more recoil than I was comfortable with, and the 7x57 never did that. - it wasn't something I wanted in my mind.
They all do the job if you're using a bullet for purpose - that's the only bit in the whole equation that does the 'dirty' - so then you're back to 'slow and heavy' vs 'fast and light' ............ and I prefer the latter for the hunting I do.

Those earlier cartridges were ex military numbers and had developed their rep on the battlefield - 6.5x54MS (+ Jap and Carcano), 6.5x55, 7x57, 8x57, .303, 30-40, 30-06, 8x57, .308 and dare I say it - .223 and joy of joys the .577 snider, .577-450 Martini and bunch of European numbers if you want to go back earlier.

And talking about the 25-20, my mate had a Win '92 in one of them and I watched him take out the best part of a mob of pigs with that ......... that was designed as a close range 'trappers' cartridge and that 'shootup' was a lesson to me.

The trend for modern high velocity cartridges came about with 'long range' shooting over in the States - and with the Duley's and some others here. So we saw supressors, muzzle brakes, weighted stocks to reduce recoil and super duper high power scopes with dial up's and computer programs so you could sling a bullet that far.
That's a whole nother game that I've witnessed - but I don't have the 'places' that would justify me getting into that ........... nor the dosh come to that.

Hunting's a sport - and we enjoy it in our own different ways ....................

Oh, forgot to add - I think shopping for a gun and cartridge today is a bit like shopping for a handbag ............. and the manufacturers know it.
Weatherby certainly knew it back in the day ......... they were one of the first to add 'bling' to a gun in the modern era - the one prior to that was the early 1800's when the American long rifle went through its 'golden age'.

The 6.5mm Creedmore is a example - it does nothing more than a whole bunch of 6.5's in front of it - yet it's taken off like a rabbit with a weasel down its hole. I think we're all influenced by 'marketting hype' - we just gotta have the latest and greatest.

I remember Horse Cartright bought himself a pistol in the Ponderosa TV series that shot around corners .......... and I never heard if that started a trend ..... or not.

Originally Posted by SF90

Oh, forgot to add - I think shopping for a gun and cartridge today is a bit like shopping for a handbag ............. and the manufacturers know it.
Weatherby certainly knew it back in the day ......... they were one of the first to add 'bling' to a gun in the modern era - the one prior to that was the early 1800's when the American long rifle went through its 'golden age'.

The 6.5mm Creedmore is a example - it does nothing more than a whole bunch of 6.5's in front of it - yet it's taken off like a rabbit with a weasel down its hole. I think we're all influenced by 'marketting hype' - we just gotta have the latest and greatest.

I remember Horse Cartright bought himself a pistol in the Ponderosa TV series that shot around corners .......... and I never heard if that started a trend ..... or not.

Marketing is the key to success

An example the 5mm Remington Rimfire Magnum never gained a huge following in the early 70s, the 17HMR (similar cartridge to the 5mm Remington)on the other
hand took off, due to the marketing, it could be said the internet & social media fuelled the hype… much like the crudmoors!

Originally Posted by Steve123

I hope not. Tossing up whether to sell the ammo or buy a decent rifle for it.
Looking more and more like the first option.
Got a jw103 which is good for cold bore plus one or two but the pencil barrel is no good for long plinking sessions

there are extremly cheep howa x39 barreled actions at 55six at the moment

Originally Posted by SF90

Oh, forgot to add - I think shopping for a gun and cartridge today is a bit like shopping for a handbag ............. and the manufacturers know it.
Weatherby certainly knew it back in the day ......... they were one of the first to add 'bling' to a gun in the modern era - the one prior to that was the early 1800's when the American long rifle went through its 'golden age'.

The 6.5mm Creedmore is a example - it does nothing more than a whole bunch of 6.5's in front of it - yet it's taken off like a rabbit with a weasel down its hole. I think we're all influenced by 'marketting hype' - we just gotta have the latest and greatest.

I remember Horse Cartright bought himself a pistol in the Ponderosa TV series that shot around corners .......... and I never heard if that started a trend ..... or not.

Just want to say that the 6.5cm is a more inherantly accurate case. I dont own one but as a swede owner I've found I needed to go to the enth degree to beat them. So i don't think it's correct to say that the creedmoor is the same, it's not as it's more efficient. Produces similar pressures with less powder.

Originally Posted by Ranger 888

Problem is today there is too much choice...back in the 1990s the USA churned out 24 new calibres in a year. By contrast the early New Zealand Govt. deer hunters made do with the .303 (open sights) for deer, goats, pigs and wapiti, and private hunters had WW2 surplus 8mm rifles available as well. Then the .222, .243, and .270 calibres crept in. A new generation of hunters now has the .300 RUM, 7mm RUM, .300 WSM, .325 WSM, .270 WSM, 7mm SAUM, 7mm WSM, .223 WSSM, .243 WSSM, .25 WSSM, .338 RUM, .375 RUM, .204 Ruger, .22 Grendel, .22 TCM, 6mm TCU, .28 Nosler, 6.5 PRC, 6.5 Creedmoor, 6.5 Grendel, 7mm LRM, .300 Blackout, .338 Edge, and the .450 Bushmaster. Really? Are these all necessary??

I own a 223WSSM. Never see them around. Fantastic killer. Great with 62gr Barnes.

Originally Posted by Bill999

there are extremly cheep howa x39 barreled actions at 55six at the moment

Yeah. No heavy barrels
and wrong time of year though. A standard profile cut to 16" would probably be ok though.......

Originally Posted by T.FOYE

Just want to say that the 6.5cm is a more inherantly accurate case. I dont own one but as a swede owner I've found I needed to go to the enth degree to beat them. So i don't think it's correct to say that the creedmoor is the same, it's not as it's more efficient. Produces similar pressures with less powder.

That's fair comment - but I wonder how many who brought into it can actually shoot that well.

I did get interested in black powder target shooting for a bit, got the action and went down to talk about Badger barrels down the range when I got roped into spotting shot fall at the three hundred yard range, and even with binoculars couldn't see what those guys could with the naked eye.
That ended up 'stillborn' ... realised right then and there I could never be competitive.

I'm a hunter first and foremost and that's why I got a gun - and my hunting is close, thirty metres or less for the most part. And that's the way I like it - I've done the 'farm hunt' where shots were out around 400 yards and I never fired a shot - I wasn't set up for it.
Thought about it and decided it was all a bit foreign for me. I certainly found it fascinating, all those deer to pick and choose from - but I decided I liked it the way I'd been doing it and if my gun (me) could hit a saucer at fifty yards, then that's all i needed.
I have 'return to zero' rings on my two main guns now and often hunt with the scope in my pack as it's more comfortable to handle a bare gun - and I shoot a lot down the range with 'irons' - wouldn't have a gun without them - and I don't.

But were I interested in long range shooting - more 'inherantly accurate' certainly has merit and helps take an 'unknown' out of the equation

Originally Posted by Beavis

7.62x39 has become largely redundant in NZ

still a few bolt actions in use in the bush....pretty good cartridge for young folks and sub 150 yard deer ,pigs,goats.... and a few bakail singles too.

Originally Posted by T.FOYE

Just want to say that the 6.5cm is a more inherantly accurate case. I dont own one but as a swede owner I've found I needed to go to the enth degree to beat them. So i don't think it's correct to say that the creedmoor is the same, it's not as it's more efficient. Produces similar pressures with less powder.

Greetings,
The reason that the Creedmoor ( named for a rifle range on a moor owned by a Mr Creed in what is now New York. Well done to @T.FOYE for correct spelling) produces similar pressure with less powder than the 6.5x55 is due t0 the Creedmoor case being smaller. Loading problems stem from the contempt that some in the US have for things not invented there. Yes it is more difficult to load for due to this but given a decent quality rifle, decent cases such as Lapua and careful working around undersize dies from the US makers the 6.5 Swede is a very accurate cartridge. The Creedmoor gets over most of this by being a modern cartridge and no doubt the short actions help with accuracy but well loaded there is little between them in my opinion at least.
Regards Grandpamac.