Thread: Richard Lincoln

Originally Posted by erniec

Do any of the forum members know this guy personally and can vouch for him.
We all can "read" up on what happened but really for me to support him would need a few on here to back him.

Really - ? a few on here have already vouched for him. I have laid out fairly clearly most of what happened and clearly I don't count - If I vouch for him - who will vouch for me? When would you become happy do you think?

Most of this stuff is public record. Media can't be trusted to illuminate without bias so I wouldn't start there. The cases are available for both the incident in question, and the High Court denial of the application to the bar.

My summaries are reasonably accurate for what its worth.

My impression of Richard are that he is focussed, intense and basically honest. He will do a great job for you if you engaged his services. He has the dog with a bone quality that a good lawyer needs. That appears to be evident without my vouching for him.

I also believe that he understands that his response in social media was a lapse, unproductive and a result of some frustration with outcomes that seemed inequitable. I doubt whether that will be a problem again in the future.

I get it what @erniec is on about, basically no smoke without a fire, which often holds true. Most of us work hard for our money and feel uneasy donating where there is any smell of bad apple. On the other hand, hard to prove something in the negative.

I don't know RL personally, but then again he is not anonymous like I am now. He is someone with the determination and consistency required to complete a law degree, so doubt he has significant drug, alcohol or psychiatric issues. His supposed misdeeds are trivial, and I know from the judge's reports that he conducts himself calmly and rationally in the court room, under exasperating police interrogation, and also with one or more guns pointed at him. This puts him in the good eggs basket as far as I'm concerned, and so he got my Rutherford. I'd like to meet him one day and shake hands.

There is only one thing worse than getting dragged to court, that is being saddled with a lawyer who is not quite in your corner.

Sidney not trying to get into an argument but OP by my count/take on things is the only one to vouch for Richard Lincoln.
Now I am all for supporting those who question things and push issues when others sit on there hands.

There has been a lot of commentary but not a lot of "I know him personally and he deserves our support".

Originally Posted by Sidney

My summaries are reasonably accurate for what its worth.

Ok, so just coz you say so that makes it the truth

Originally Posted by Sidney

My impression of Richardare that he is focussed, intense and basically honest..

He stood up in front of a select committee in parliament and told lies with a straight face... When he was confronted about it on this and other forums he became abusive and was banned...

Originally Posted by ebf

He stood up in front of a select committee in parliament and told lies with a straight face... When he was confronted about it on this and other forums he became abusive and was banned...

Tell us more gnome. Much better when it's specific. What were RLs straight-faced lies to the select committee?

Cordite, it's public record mate. Don't take my word for it, god knows you seem to be a one-man-band raising funds and support for the guy...

Go read paragraph 2 of his submission to the Law and Order committee in May 2011

Originally Posted by ebf

Cordite, it's public record mate. Don't take my word for it, god knows you seem to be a one-man-band raising funds and support for the guy...

Go read paragraph 2 of his submission to the Law and Order committee in May 2011

Thanks, I think this must be the submission you refer to: https://www.parliament.nz/resource/0000163901

Para 2, reads: "We access a membership of approximately 229,977 firearms license holders. These members are all of (or very near to) voting age, they all value highly their liberty to participate in their sport with firearms and are highly motivated to vote in general elections."

Slightly clearer than mud. Lincoln uses the word "access" as opposed to "have" - an unusual use of the word, but this does mean he does not necessarily refer to the actual NSA membership roll. As if to clarify this, when reading on in the next sentence he cannot give an exact number of said membership, which he would be expected to be able to do if talking about the NSA membership roll. Instead, he can only approximate it, because he is talking of all current NZ FAL holders and only the NZ Police have their exact current number.

The rest of the document gives a flavour of Mr Lincoln's representation of shooters, worth a read.

ebf, you seem to be making some difficult to grasp claims. To my mind, Richards Lincoln's claims have validity, subject to reading them in correct English. Can you be more specific in your criticisms? I fail to grasp your problem here but I am interested to know what it is.

@gundoc, back in the NSA days, Lincoln stood up in front of a select committee in Parliament and claimed to represent 229,977 firearms license members.

At that stage, it was very clear that he did not have the support of the majority of license holders. But being a law-student, he likes playing games with words. So for instance when it suits him, he is happy to say he represents all license holders, by using words like "access". When the license holders confront him and say "nope, you don't" he reverts to weird schemes like his infamous "opt-out" system. If you want to see the detail, and how average firearms license holders reacted to this, search for the "NSA membership figures"

People on here have asked for more info regarding how Richard conducts himself, and if it is worth spending your money supporting him. You make up your own mind

So basically honest then... my little liberal gnome...

Originally Posted by ebf

Cordite, it's public record mate. Don't take my word for it, god knows you seem to be a one-man-band raising funds and support for the guy...

Don't feel sorry for me now. I've made up my mind that he's value for money for shooters AND that he is being screwed over, so I don't mind donating a bit of time and money.

Would do same for you if I found you were in similar trouble.

Originally Posted by ebf

@gundoc, back in the NSA days, Lincoln stood up in front of a select committee in Parliament and claimed to represent 229,977 firearms license members.

At that stage, it was very clear that he did not have the support of the majority of license holders. But being a law-student, he likes playing games with words. So for instance when it suits him, he is happy to say he represents all license holders, by using words like "access". When the license holders confront him and say "nope, you don't" he reverts to weird schemes like his infamous "opt-out" system. If you want to see the detail, and how average firearms license holders reacted to this, search for the "NSA membership figures"

People on here have asked for more info regarding how Richard conducts himself, and if it is worth spending your money supporting him. You make up your own mind

It appears that you are seeing imaginary 'words between the lines'! I have read his submission and he definitely uses the word 'access' which has a completely different meaning to 'represent'. 'Access' in this context means the ability to communicate with, the ability to read forums such as this and gauge opinions, the ability to read editorial comments in national shooting and hunting magazines, etc. It does not mean to speak for them without their input. You frequently hear the word 'represent' used by various (and frequently limp-wristed, left-wing, 'academic') groups who claim to be acting in the 'public interest', which, of course is nonsense because they never asked anyone outside their small clique of sycophants. Richard Lincoln and the NSA work for the upholding of the law as it is written, not as it perceived, manipulated, or just blatantly ignored by the NZ Police and other groups. When such instances occur (and there is a definite small number of people in places of influence working to 'control' firearms owners in NZ) then you can expect the NSA to sit up and respond. If you wish to continue as a firearms owner there is no compulsion upon you to actively fight for your rights, but don't put yourself up for ridicule when a few less timorous souls do it for you! My apologies to Winston Churchill but you and your ilk "may sleep soundly in your beds because tough men stand ready to visit justice upon those who would do us harm"! As you may guess, I am part of the NSA.

Personally I’m with Ebf.

Using another persons poor behaviour to justify your own is immature and stupid. His behaviour was appalling and it has not been a one off, he has been banned from forums because there of his conduct, he is not the kind of guy I would want to be some kind of self appointed representative of me.

I think he will do more harm than good and divide the shooting community.

have you engaged a lawyer to protect your feelings?