Rifle Bedding Opinions

So I have a Bergara Extreme hunter that I purchased as a bit of a heavier rifle for shootability as my 2.6kg 7mm08 and 2.9kg 280ai are a little lively at times and definitely not a good steeping stone for my partner coming from the 22lr she's been learning on. Been having some pretty good results except I pulled the action and retorted the action screws to 65inch pounds like I used to do my old rem 700 6.5x47. I then went and shot a group at 200 that was around 4.5 inches and with a shifted poi which for this rifle is shocking. I then Google bergaras torque spec which is 55inchlbs which I changed back to and groups returned somewhat to right around the 1moa mark which is a little more than whatever the actual torque was when the rifle came from factory.

But this prompted be to inspect the stock at which point I noticed the action is a very tight fit. I can hold stock upside down with no action screws and action stay locked in place. I also noticed the pillars had the soft touch coating peeling off them as the coating appears to be a dip which going over these. I cleaned the coating from the front pillar but have noticed the rear pillar is actually under the surface of the stock around a mm. I'm thinking of bedding the rifle but unsure whether I should dig down so the rifle action sits on both pillars. I also note that that bottom metal is very tight in the stock and wonder whether relieving it slightly and then bedding it too might not be a bad idea.

Here's some photos of the front an rear pillar.

Attachment 196856
Attachment 196857


So would people relieve the stock so the action can bare on the pillars when it's bedded or what the sides of the action probably need relieving too being they hold the action so tight it would be very hard to bed stress free when it's like this.

Ps: also looked at all previous 5 shot groups that tend to have 3 very close and 2 fliers this hasn't tended to be consistent as to which number shot is the flier.

Devcon 10110 is the best bedding compound on the planet

You have a complicated situation there and the metalwork needs to be setup better than what it was from the factory

It will take experience to have the finished product look and function correctly.

After probably over-researching, I ended up buying this stuff:
https://www.ballisticstudies.com/sho...+Compound.html

Created by a guy who does this professionally. Great vids showing the process, and phone support if needed.

And you're buying NZ made.

A friends Bergara had the groups tighten right up when he decreased the torque on the screws. You could try loosening them a bit more and see what happens. I wouldn’t lower the action any unless you know you will have clearance with the mag box not being pinched between the action and bottom metal.
From my understanding pillar bedding was “invented” when some of the early fibreglass stocks had the bedding collapse because they were using micro balloons to stiffen the resin. Over time the glass balloons were breaking and collapsing. If you look at the compression strength and elongation properties of modern resins they are as good or better than aluminium so I wouldn’t be concerned about the pillars being too low.

When I bed my Rem 700 I put a single layer of insulation tape around the action so only the rear tang and front of the action are touching and are bedded. The rest of the action is essentially free floating.

Good to know Stug pretty easy to remove a mm from the bottom of the mag box if it's a little snug. For bedding this stock I guess your suggesting I remove a little material down the sides of the action but leave a bit off material at the rear of the action as a reference height for the action for when I bed it?

You could get a bar turned up the same diameter as the action wrap some sand paper around it and sand the whole action area then drill some small holes in action area to get a mechanical lock for the bedding compound.

Call in at my place after work and I will show you a Rem 700 and a BSA full action bedded with Nathan Fosters kits. Comes out superb

55 and 65 inch pounds seems like a lot. I could be wrong but on my plastic Tikka stocks I torque to 35 inch pounds to avoid any unnecessary compression and on my carbon stocks with pillars I go 40 inch pounds which feels like plenty.

As above NF/Ballistic Studies kit is very good. I’ve only used it on two rifles, Ruger M77 and Howa Mini. Both have turned out great and in both cases reduced grouping size, particularly the Mini after bedding the Knox.

As an a relative novice in this area Nathan’s videos are a big help. They take you through it step by step and I think they focus on the rem action.

The consistency of the mixed product is just right. It’s flows easily enough but is also thick enough to not run all over the place while you’re putting the action down into the compound. The finished result has a fantastic look to it with a very professional appearance. As Nathan says over and over prep is the key and have everything in front of you that you will need plus test run how you’re going to go about things before mixing up the compound.

I'd try a washer on the top of that rear pillar to get it touching first.

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Originally Posted by stagstalker

55 and 65 inch pounds seems like a lot. I could be wrong but on my plastic Tikka stocks I torque to 35 inch pounds to avoid any unnecessary compression and on my carbon stocks with pillars I go 40 inch pounds which feels like plenty.

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You are 100% correct

I have set up hundreds of rifle stocks using a magnetic dial indicator gauge, watching the dial during the tightening sequence tells you everything you need to know

A thorough understanding of how a rifles metalwork sits in a stock is required, you need to keep the metalwork and stock in line with each other, easements for gas ports, magazine reliefs and trigger recesses, then clearance around action screws. Any alteration to magazine wells and such can alter ammo feed and mag fitment
There’s a reason most only show remington actions being worked on, they are the easiest. Once you change something for the worse you will wish you had never touched it. Take it to a competent gunsmith

Overtightening often irreversibly damages a stock to the point that proper bedding is necessary

Devcon will get the measured difference to zero and under half a thousandth on a bad day

Skim bedding is ok for alloy (HS precision etc)

Carbon/timber/aramid fibre/plastic needs the hardest bedding surface money can buy or you Haven’t improved it as well as you could have

Attachment 196882

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stagstalker

55 and 65 inch pounds seems like a lot. I could be wrong but on my plastic Tikka stocks I torque to 35 inch pounds to avoid any unnecessary compression and on my carbon stocks with pillars I go 40 inch pounds which feels like plenty.

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55 is the recommended torque by Bergara 65 was the recommended torque by the stock on my old rem 700. its tight but not out of the normal range for pillared stocks. Tikkas are a straight plastics stock with no pillars hence the lower recommended torque.

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Originally Posted by 7mmsaum

You are 100% correct

I have set up hundreds of rifle stocks using a magnetic dial indicator gauge, watching the dial during the tightening sequence tells you everything you need to know

Devcon bedding will get the measured difference to zero, and under half a thousandth on a bad day.

Overtightening often irreversably damages a stock to the point that proper bedding is necessary

Skim bedding is ok for alloy (HS precision etc)

Carbon/timber/aramid fibre/plastic needs the hardest bedding surface money can buy or you Haven’t improved it as well as you could have

Attachment 196882

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Its not 100% correct if its manufacturer recommended torque specs mate. Also these are steel pillars which is plenty fine for 65inch pounds the issue occurs when everything else interacts with the action before it can bare against the pillars.

I do plan to bed the rifle but noticed the pillars are marginally touching the action screw so i have removed pilars and will redo these then bed. The pillars are the correct height for magazine to float between bottom metal.

My queries where not about if i should bed it. It was about whether people thought i should expose the pillars so the action could bare direct on steel when doing the bedding. anyway removing the pillars has allowed me to sort this for now

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Originally Posted by Stocky

55 is the recommended torque by Bergara 65 was the recommended torque by the stock on my old rem 700. its tight but not out of the normal range for pillared stocks. Tikkas are a straight plastics stock with no pillars hence the lower recommended torque.

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If you had a HSPrecision stock on your remington the recommended is 65 inch pounds in the front and 40 on the rear

35 to 40 on the rear suits most composite stocks.

If you need to be specific put a dial indicator gauge on it and see if that torque level bends the action in the stock

Screw Torque by itself means nothing

An action that’s bending in a stock is a whole nother story :)

One reason tikkas shoot so well is the stock is not strong enough to bend the action when tightened


I have never found a factory rifle without some bedding issues when you really measure it properly

I asked one of NZ's top gunsmiths what he had torqed my Tikka he had bedded in a manners for me and said, didn't know and just done on feel. I stopped worrying about torqing after that as shoots fantastic.
The savage accustocks with the 3 action screws can take a bit of playing around with torqing at range in a certain order to close up groups.

can try practice bedding with car filler compound to see if it improves first and getting correct areas, before going full devcon/epoxy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 7mmsaum

Devcon 10110 is the best bedding compound on the planet.....

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I'd have to disagree with that and so would many others. It's an excellent bedding compound for sure which I've used many times. However, it isn't in the same league as Belzona 1111. 0% shrinkage (unlike the Devcon), hard as the Hobbs of hell, a little on the heavy side and at $340 a small tub the Belzona is prohibitive. Used for such things as emergency repairs to turbine blades.

Marinetex is also a good bedding compound, similar to Devco 10110 although not quite as hard.

but still bloody hard and as Speedy Gonzalez has shown from testing, it too has insignificant shrinkage unlike many other traditional bedding compounds.

Have you tried shooting successive groups, after the rifle cools with different torque settings : 30-40-50-60 in lbs etc?

1 MOA is more than enough for deer? are you shooting more than 3 deer at once?

Sounds like a solution looking for a problem..

I added JB Weld around the front of my CZ457 action (Boyds 'At-One' stock).
JB Weld is quite common going by overseas forums.
https://www.supercheapauto.co.nz/p/j...004026#start=4
Bunnings, etc also sell it.
I only used it to fill in the space around the action front and the woodwork (to eliminate any 'torquing' that might be going on), and hold the action tight with the inlet sides.
Didn't do an actual 'bed' for the action to sit down on as the Boyds stock is quite well made and machined nicely.
I emailed Boyds and asked about pillars, etc. they said "no need, as stock is solid (it's laminated) and pillars no use".
So yeah, I have bedded my action but in a limited way. I only wanted to be sure that the action stayed tight to the woodwork.
For my rifle and use CZ say don't bed the barrel, so that's still free floating.
However, I have since decided to go all out and I've ordered an Oryx chassis.
Only because I can add bits to it easily, and adapt it to my body (buggered neck, arthritic hands, etc, etc).
Which also means that the 'At-One' stock will hit the Buy/Sell/Trade (BST) real soon. Drop in fit for your CZ457.
This one, but without those gay 'rubber' grippy bits.
https://gunrack.nz/product/boyds-at-...ustable-stock/

Beware of JB weld if doing a full bedding job as I found out the hard way it is only workable for about 5 mins from mixing.

Also

Stupid question but until recently I only had magazine fed rifles. Does the internal magazine not act as a pillar between floor plate and action?

not a stupid question at all
because how that box sits is CRITICAL...if it binds or twists accuracy can go to shit....if the gap between the three metal bits,floorplate,box n action isnt right it can stuff up feeding.....it can take a supe reliable feeding rifle and make it a jamomatic pig...... having made a wooden bit to hold my metal bits (fellow forum members have told me its NOT A STOCK) and the job isnt as easy at first looks.

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Originally Posted by 300_BLK

Have you tried shooting successive groups, after the rifle cools with different torque settings : 30-40-50-60 in lbs etc?

1 MOA is more than enough for deer? are you shooting more than 3 deer at once?

Sounds like a solution looking for a problem..

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That's the plan for tomorrow. Rifles all bedded now will test. Plan was always to bed it just wasn't going to be so soon. Just wasn't sure about exposing thenpillar but by remoh9ng pillars and reinstaling at correct heights the doing the full bed I've got what I intended. I had to remove about 1mm per side for action to fit stock without a gap so it was being pinched almost 2mm. The pillars where also spaced closer than action and bottom metal bolt spacing so action screws where touching the pillars so I also solved that ( may ot may not have been an issue but prefer to solve it)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SPEARONZ

Beware of JB weld if doing a full bedding job as I found out the hard way it is only workable for about 5 mins from mixing.

Also

Stupid question but until recently I only had magazine fed rifles. Does the internal magazine not act as a pillar between floor plate and action?

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No it should have play and not be bound between the 2 it kind of floats with a little play in it.

Had bedding compound here already it was always the plan but was on the non urgent TO DO list until groups opened up. Will now test the action screw torque and accuracy tomorrow hopefully.

Jb hardens in five minute if you buy the quick drying version. The normal drying version sets in under 1 hour and needs a good 12 to 15 hours to harden well.

@Stocky This I found interesting re bedding and action torqueing: "Whatever torque spec you ultimately decide upon, be sure to do this: When assembling and torqueing the rifle into the stock, put the screws in finger-tight only, then stand the rifle on its buttpad and give it a light bounce, then hold down (the same direction of recoil) on the barrel while tightening the screws to the final torque setting. Torque the screw closest to the recoil lug first, then the tang screw. This helps to ensure that the recoil lug is solidly against the abutment. Personally I like a bedded (after reading all the previous posts I'll clarify- the action has full contact in an exactly conforming layer of suitable epoxy) setup with pillars in the screw-holes. When tightening the screws, it should feel as if the movement of the screws stops suddenly- one instant you feel the sliding of the threads, the next the torque device snaps. This indicates you are not able to compress the material the action rest on, which was the point of the whole bedding process. You might want to conduct a test for the "ideal torque" for your rig if you can't sort all the varying answers you've received here: I suggest starting at 40inch-pounds, shoot a group or two, increase by 5 inch-pounds, shoot again, and so on up to the maximum suggested. You will probably find a "tuned" setting that shoots noticeably better than the rest. All part of getting to know your rig".

Got a Bergara too Stocky. Following this with interest. Can you please let us know what you find with the groups and torque settings before I pop the stock off to have a look. Theres quite a bit on the Bergara forums on facebook re cleaning up the pillar contact areas. Not sure if they apply to the Extreme hunter though.

@Stocky Would you have any updates for us on this?

I removed rear pillar raised it so it was in contact with action then bedded it. Seemed to solve issue.

Brother has one of these with a similar issue he skim bedded action and applies less torque to rear screw. Bothe seemed to work but the stocks are a bit shit to be honest in terms of pillars not actually achieving anything if they aren't in contact.