Rimfire suppressor and Rimfire specific scopes

Hi all

I’ve tried a quick search but no joy for this technically challenged. I’ve just picked up a new .22 and like most of us I’m always trying find the best cost benefit ratio.

Rimfire suppressors - they range in price from $29 to $160+ . Is there a big difference in quality and effectiveness?

And

Rimfire specific scopes . I know there is a difference in fixed parallax setting but does this make a difference in real world usage ? Just for plinking and shooting small fluffy things.

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts .

Yes massive difference in suppressor performance and size, as with many things you get what you pay for. I make high quality K baffle suppressors but they are at the top end of your budget....check out fss on facebook for details.

You can get by with a cheaper scope on a 22 but again you get what you pay for and depends on the distance you want to shoot.

Cheers

Parallax setting in the real world? No drama apart from your targets will be blurry at short range. If you can't live with that, any scope that has an adjustable objective (AO; sometimes called EFR on Leupold scopes) will make a good rimfire scope, so the world is your oyster. I generally avoid scopes labelled as rimfire models as it seems to be another way of saying cheap trash. Personally, I want my best scope on my rimfire. Targets are small!

For suppressors first determine if you need one. Popular idea in the last 5-6 years is that you must have a silencer for every 22LR. No you don't. If shooting anywhere near housing, or in smaller confined blocks like orchards then yes. If shooting open farm country - no. Have shot umpteen thousand bunnies and very rarely use a silencer on the 22s.

You do not necessarily need to spend big bucks on 22LR scopes given the max 100-110m range you'll normally shoot. Some good reliable makes are Nikko Stirling, Tasco, Hawke and Bushnell (sportsman/banner/trophy etc). An AO or fixed parallax won't make too much difference for a hunter, as often when shooting large numbers you don't have time to adjust AO for each rabbit.

My son has a suppressor that came on his rossi 22lr semi. I can't distinguish any difference in volume between his rifle and my unsuppressed 10/22.

As for scopes, it depends very much on what you want to do. I've seen a guy with 14X mag on 22LR who couldn't find the target when rabbit shooting due to the hugely restricted FOV, and given the trajectory of the round I have no idea why anyone would want this magnification. I use a 1X 3moa bushnell trophy red dot and find it near perfect, sight in at 50m and the bullet lands in the kill zone of a rabbit anywhere out to 60m reliably, and has dropped down about 12cm at 100m. Every now and then I put a scope on my 10/22 but get sick of it pretty quickly and go back to the red dot.

My favourite rimfire scope would be the Nikko-Stirling Airking 2-7x32, about $150ish new.

Buzz - the idea of a dedicated Rimfire scope is a bit like someone trying to sell you a Toyota branded battery
There is an element of manufacturers trying to segment the market and leverage that into more sales in some way

Your best bet is to have a try on your mates" 22s and see what you think

A 22 doesn't have a long range so you could do well to look at a smaller magnification range, say a 1-6 or thereabouts

As noted earlier in the thread, a really high magnification may be great for counting the hairs on a rabbit's bumhole but finding that bunny quickly in the field can be like scrubbing down the Taj Mahal with a toothbrush if you are stuck up on 16x power or some such

I use mainly 3-9 scopes as they're a good general purpose range but only ever used 3X on rabbits for the reasons everyone else has stated. The option to go up to 9X comes in handy with my aging eyesight after I think I've found one.

Hey thanks all. Good to hear.

I’m glad to hear I wouldn’t be shortchanged by going with a standard (non-Rimfire specific) scope. It opens up many options. I was mainly looking at 2-7x30ish models. I’ve used family member’s Rimfires in the past but they were all older models and couldn’t be sure how they compare with modern optics.

I’ll look up the FSS suppressors. I like supporting local.

I,

I use DPT suppressors on all my 22s.

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Originally Posted by mudgripz

An AO or fixed parallax won't make too much difference for a hunter, as often when shooting large numbers you don't have time to adjust AO for each rabbit.

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For me, it's not about adjusting AO for each rabbit, it's more about getting it in the ball park of range. I usually set it to 50 yds and leaving it there on my 22LR. As said though, if the OP wants to stick on a scope with a fixed parallax setting (most scopes seems to be 150 yds), then that'll work.

As a rule of thumb, AO becomes more important once your scopes magnification is greater than 10x. On a 2-7 it won't be very noticeable.

Surprised the rossi silencer is shit. There is bugger all between a small silence that works and one that is passable.
I've been playing around with them for a bit and even the one I made for kotoku (apart from a baffle strike, I was trying to keep the hole size tight but easy fixed) was pretty good.
If its a little silencer it may not have many baffles in it.
As for scopes I do like a vari power but that was only for looking at possums in trees you couldnt get too.
Realistically a 4x would be fine.
The old hubertus I had on my stirling was more like a 3x than a 4 and I thought I could shoot miles away with that.
Very disappointed when I tried it out after coming back from oz 10 years later and it was quite shitty.
I will say that some of the newer ballistic mil dot scopes for 22s seem interesting for longer range stuff as long as they match the trajectory.
Would love to have a crack at rabbits but need to do a mission for those.
Bugger all close

I made a few suppressors from a short length of 40mm plastic plumbing pipe and 2 end caps. No internal baffles. Was a simple push fit on to barrel end.
Deadly quiet!
On my wee Martini you could aim at a target, fire the shot, and only hear a faint 'click' from the firing pin, then nothing until a 'thump' from the target showed you hit it (sighted in on a gum tree I didn't like).
I don't see how anyone can't make them that quiet these days.
Is it the metal can allowing the noise to come through?
I have a modern screw-on .22 suppressor that is meant to be an OK NZ made one (stuck it on my JW15), and it's way noisier than my plastic jobby (and yes...same ammo used).

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Originally Posted by Grey Kiwi

I don't see how anyone can't make them that quiet these days.
Is it the metal can allowing the noise to come through?

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Not sure what you mean, I have metal DPT cans on all 3 of my 22's, a Savage bolt, a little badger single shot, and a browning trombone pump: with subs all are just the trigger click then thumb.

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Originally Posted by vulcannz

Not sure what you mean, I have metal DPT cans on all 3 of my 22's, a Savage bolt, a little badger single shot, and a browning trombone pump: with subs all are just the trigger click then thumb.

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Oh, OK...what I'm referring to is that I only used Winchester Power Point HP (high velocity stuff, about 1250+ fps?).
No supersonic 'crack' either.
But my Martini has a long barrel so maybe it slowed the bullet down enough so that it didn't go supersonic?
When I first fired it with the plastic 'can' I thought I had a misfire until I heard the bullet hit the target tree.
Firing the same ammo through my JW15 with the HushPro RF on I can hear the shot (not quiet enough to hear the firing pin strike).
Yeah, the JW is a tad quieter than shooting without the HushPro RF on it.
I've never shot sub sonic .22 ammo at any time. Wondered why folks bothered as my Martini shot so quietly.
I am guessing, but it's all probably to do with the difference between my Martini and the JW (with it's shorter, skinny barrel).

Recently did a bsa international 22 spotter
I did think the first few shots out of the 28" barrel were pretty quiet with the subsonics and not too bad with the supersonics.

I'm a big believer in putting a nice scope on a 22.
I shoot my 22s about 20x as much as my centrefires so it doesn't makes sense to cheap out on the scope.

My favorite scope for a 22 is my PST 2.5-10x32.
Pretty much the prefect mag range for anything but long rnage shooting (150m+) and even then it's still ok.
If dont be tempted to get a cheap high magnification scope, you'd be far better off with nicer glass and less magnification.

I haven't used a dirt cheap suppressor for a long time, DPTs are about $130 and seem to be as good as the more expensive rimfire cans.

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Originally Posted by Grey Kiwi

I made a few suppressors from a short length of 40mm plastic plumbing pipe and 2 end caps. No internal baffles. Was a simple push fit on to barrel end.
Deadly quiet!
On my wee Martini you could aim at a target, fire the shot, and only hear a faint 'click' from the firing pin, then nothing until a 'thump' from the target showed you hit it (sighted in on a gum tree I didn't like).
I don't see how anyone can't make them that quiet these days.
Is it the metal can allowing the noise to come through?
I have a modern screw-on .22 suppressor that is meant to be an OK NZ made one (stuck it on my JW15), and it's way noisier than my plastic jobby (and yes...same ammo used).

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I've made many ally and ally/carbon fiber cans but the 3D printed ones I've started using are much quieter, not sure how long they'll last though. It could be the fact the plastic is more porous/sound deadening.

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Originally Posted by muzza

for most .22 usage , a low-budget scope in the fixed 4 power or 3-9 is perfectly adequate. its only snobbery and wanting to keep up with the "big boys" that makes you spend a shitload more money to feel better about your shooting rig.

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Some of us just like using nice things.
Sure a JW15 with a $100 4x32 will kill possums just fine but compared to even a old CZ/Brno and a half decent scope there is really no comparison.

I once bought a CZ 452 from a guy who lost the original mag so replaced it with a Jw15 magazine that didn't quite fit so carried a spoon around to be able to remove the magazine.
If that floats your boat then you do you but for me my Tikka T1x is well worth the price I paid.
Have spent far more on buying ammo than the initial purchase price anyway.

@Buzz

One thing that I cannot see here re Objective focus is that it is more noticible on higher magnifications. At low magnification like 1-4x there is little effect of parallax, but wind it up to 9x and aim at something close the issue can arise. A specific rimfire scope is usually focused at closer to 50 metres where most 'normal' scopes are focused at between 100-150m. As such the price difference is usually minimal if quality is the same.

As @mudgripz said- there are a lot of cheaper AO scopes that work well Nikko Airking, or the Mountmaster with AO (if you can find them) AO is really not to dissimilar to the focus ring you get on Binos. With a 22 it would usually get set to about 40 to 50m and left untouched after that. shooting at bunnies at less than 50m and the target size is close enough that the variation in accuracy due to parallax wont make a difference, and should be pretty good out to 75m as well.

If you put your head in exactly the same place every time with every shot then parallax will not be noticed. But if there is a slight variation in where your eye is in relation to the scope an it is not focused at the same distance the cross hair can 'move'. Easiest way to see is next time you are looking through the scope- look at something close (set up a target at 12m or so ) and aim at it then move your head about and watch where the cross is.....

As for suppressors on a 22- My experience tells me that the effectiveness has far more to do with the volume of the suppressor than the build quality. I have a theory about it as to why this is but it is something I have noticed over the years. Certainly with a round with a subsonic muzzle velocity, all i hear is a click of the trigger and the whoompf when it hits furry soft stuff....It will take the harsh 'crack' off a supersonic round but you will still get a 'bang' from the shot. I think the best way to describe a supressed supersonic 22 is a more rounded softer noise. Certainly easier on the ears. But not like in the movies...

My current .22 has a suppressor, as it came with it. I shoot on farms, so wouldn't normally bother fitting one after the fact, as I've not noticed any practical advantage over my unsuppressed .22s. Even if using HV. My scope is a nice little Tasco rimfire 2-7 x 32. $150. Nice and clear. Love it.

Those running the DPT’s do you use three or five baffles? I just ordered one and was suprised that it only had the three. Might take it back and order the five baffle one.

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Originally Posted by Grey Kiwi

Oh, OK...what I'm referring to is that I only used Winchester Power Point HP (high velocity stuff, about 1250+ fps?).
No supersonic 'crack' either.

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The supersonic crack is not a function of a can suppressor, unless you're using a full barrel suppressor which slows the bullet down before it leaves the rifle (it usually has vents along the barrel to remove gas).

So it's either faulty ammo or perhaps your martini is venting someone (I've no idea about that, maybe someone else more experienced can comment). If the suppressor was doing something to slow the bullet down it'd likely get blown off.

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Originally Posted by vulcannz

The supersonic crack is not a function of a can suppressor, unless you're using a full barrel suppressor which slows the bullet down before it leaves the rifle (it usually has vents along the barrel to remove gas).

So it's either faulty ammo or perhaps your martini is venting someone (I've no idea about that, maybe someone else more experienced can comment). If the suppressor was doing something to slow the bullet down it'd likely get blown off.

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Without more detail, it is possible barrel length may be a factor here. Modern 22LR ammo seems to get peak velocity at around 10-12 inches down the barrel and after that the friction in the rifling is enough that the pressure behind it is not quite enough to maintain acceleration. Some of the high velocity ammo is only a hundred or so FPS above super sonic so it would not take much to slow it down.

I have budget constraints and have found an acceptable formula.

- $200. Nikko Stirling Panamax 3/9-40mm. (Also use these scopes on 30 centrefire rifles).
- $150. Hushpower Braveheart (The big option) from Gun City.
- 24c each. CCI Standard velocity.

The scope is quite suitable for 100m hunting.
Silencer gets the job done.
CCI standard is about the most accurate I've found.

Works for me.

As above "rimfire" scopes have their parallax set at 50 to 60 yards. It is NOT a reflection on quality. A leupold or Nikon rimfire scope would be great on a dedicated short range centrefire or a shotgun shooting slugs.

I use a five baffle DPT on a 12" barrel. Quiet enough for me using CCI 40gr subs. The 45gr "suppressor " ammo is really great to.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Grey Kiwi

I made a few suppressors from a short length of 40mm plastic plumbing pipe and 2 end caps. No internal baffles. Was a simple push fit on to barrel end.
Deadly quiet!
On my wee Martini you could aim at a target, fire the shot, and only hear a faint 'click' from the firing pin, then nothing until a 'thump' from the target showed you hit it (sighted in on a gum tree I didn't like).
I don't see how anyone can't make them that quiet these days.
Is it the metal can allowing the noise to come through?
I have a modern screw-on .22 suppressor that is meant to be an OK NZ made one (stuck it on my JW15), and it's way noisier than my plastic jobby (and yes...same ammo used).

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As a fitting and turning apprentice in the 70's I spun up an alloy can for my then brand new 10/22. About the diameter of a 30 cal suppressor. One big chamber then bike inner tube rubber stretched over the muzzle. With left hand thumb pushed up behind bolt handle to prevent cycling, it was just the trigger click then the thock of the lead hitting the bunny. Accurate for about 20 rounds till the hole in the rubber wore out:o

ive got smiffys suppressor on my "Joe90" stirling .22 and apart from baffle strike it worked ok with subs . Ive just drilled the hole a little larger .as for preferences -Im' nikko sterling .tasco .man. older cheaper scopes but to me most important scopes Im comfortable with and which do the job iwant them to do. .my first rig was a stirling .22 with 4x28nikko tiara scope and thast rig shot god nknows how many possums.I later put a 4x40tasco scope on it and that was my deadly spotlighting rig on possums!light on crosshairs centered between eyes smile mr ..bang...goodbye. If tyou learn how to use your rig well even budget rigs like mine will do the job comfortably. BTW I had a bentley 4x40 scope on my .303 and its baby brother 4x32 on my toz.22 for over 30yrs . Richards Wilhems reconditioned both for me and changed the reticles .in his opinion they were a good budget scope which if looked after would do the job.

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Originally Posted by 308

Buzz - the idea of a dedicated Rimfire scope is a bit like someone trying to sell you a Toyota branded battery
There is an element of manufacturers trying to segment the market and leverage that into more sales in some way

Your best bet is to have a try on your mates" 22s and see what you think

A 22 doesn't have a long range so you could do well to look at a smaller magnification range, say a 1-6 or thereabouts

As noted earlier in the thread, a really high magnification may be great for counting the hairs on a rabbit's bumhole but finding that bunny quickly in the field can be like scrubbing down the Taj Mahal with a toothbrush if you are stuck up on 16x power or some such

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mans a bloody poet but agree with whats said -laughed at the way it was put -just now cant get that bloody rabbit image out of my head

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Beetroot

Some of us just like using nice things.
Sure a JW15 with a $100 4x32 will kill possums just fine but compared to even a old CZ/Brno and a half decent scope there is really no comparison.

I once bought a CZ 452 from a guy who lost the original mag so replaced it with a Jw15 magazine that didn't quite fit so carried a spoon around to be able to remove the magazine.
If that floats your boat then you do you but for me my Tikka T1x is well worth the price I paid.
Have spent far more on buying ammo than the initial purchase price anyway.

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will the bruno #2 and the norinco jw15 both sit in cabinet...and to be perfectly honest I prefer the norinco.... there is buggerall difference between the two but jw has awesome trigger.
scopes..3x leupold and 6x kahles just because they are there and needed home.
using subsonic rounds a suppressor is just about irrelevant,they are nice and quiet.

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Originally Posted by kotuku

ive got smiffys suppressor on my "Joe90" stirling .22 and apart from baffle strike it worked ok with subs . Ive just drilled the hole a little larger .as for preferences -Im' nikko sterling .tasco .man. older cheaper scopes but to me most important scopes Im comfortable with and which do the job iwant them to do. .my first rig was a stirling .22 with 4x28nikko tiara scope and thast rig shot god nknows how many possums.I later put a 4x40tasco scope on it and that was my deadly spotlighting rig on possums!light on crosshairs centered between eyes smile mr ..bang...goodbye. If tyou learn how to use your rig well even budget rigs like mine will do the job comfortably. BTW I had a bentley 4x40 scope on my .303 and its baby brother 4x32 on my toz.22 for over 30yrs . Richards Wilhems reconditioned both for me and changed the reticles .in his opinion they were a good budget scope which if looked after would do the job.

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scopes work much better when firmly fixed in scope rings though aye.....LOL.

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Originally Posted by XR500

As a fitting and turning apprentice in the 70's I spun up an alloy can for my then brand new 10/22. About the diameter of a 30 cal suppressor. One big chamber then bike inner tube rubber stretched over the muzzle. With left hand thumb pushed up behind bolt handle to prevent cycling, it was just the trigger click then the thock of the lead hitting the bunny. Accurate for about 20 rounds till the hole in the rubber wore out:o

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Man I was an apprentice in the 70's also, I also experimented with suppressors (And still do).
I came to the conclusion that large internal volume suppressors are king. 50mm dia aluminium tube 200mm long (Or longer) screwed onto the end of the rifle, cap the noisy end and have a short hollow exit tube running back into the suppressor.
Also experimented with rubber wipes, but that's another possibly questionable topic.
Good on you XR500, us old farts have to stick together.

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

scopes work much better when firmly fixed in scope rings though aye.....LOL.

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bastard!!lol since fixed very bloody firmly too.like weise the noted missing screws your lordship[!lol

Re suppressor. There are some differences.

Bigger volume leads to better suppression and less effect from it being dirty. but weighs more and could cost more. If you want lighter but with good suppression you need to spend more money. high end ones may use carbon fibre sleeving, removable baffles, more durable materials. all are absent as you go lower in price. I have one that just has spring inside acting like baffle, works too, just less well compared with others. My best one is from the now defunct Bunny Buster based on Nelson.

Re scope, it depends on what you shoot. if you just want to pop cans at 50m, then any scopes will do. Rimfire specific scopes generally have low magnification at no more than 9x, but parallex of 50m. i never owned one, but i own scopes that can go to 9 and can focus at 50. my feeling is that they are off when focusing at 100m. Maybe these RF specific scopes has thicker FOV so they do not suffer from this problem?

Most of my 22s wear scopes with higher magnification than 9. My possum gun wears a 4-24 and I use 24x all the time. When you try to land a headshot from 70m~100m without support or rest, it is important that you can see your wobble clearly and pull trigger at the right moment of wobble. It is harder when your scope has low magnification. Having 24x makes life much easier.

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Originally Posted by Delphus

Those running the DPT’s do you use three or five baffles? I just ordered one and was suprised that it only had the three. Might take it back and order the five baffle one.

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I have a 3 baffle one for rifles I shoot subs on, and 5 baffles for a rifle setup for hv (like cci stingers).

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Originally Posted by vulcannz

I have a 3 baffle one for rifles I shoot subs on, and 5 baffles for a rifle setup for hv (like cci stingers).

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I use 5 baffles on my dpt through my 10/22, crazy quiet with subs.

Thought I'd ask on this thread instead of starting a new one. I run a brave hart hushpower from gun city on my .17hmr, thinking of upgrading to the 5 baffle dpt, any one have any experience with comparing these two types? Doing abit of shooting around life style blocks and need to use the 17 due to the lack of rickershay risk with it.
Cheers.

I had a dpt for a few years and found it would significantly open up the groups at 50m on 3 or 4 of my rimfires. Still plenty good enough for hunting bunnies though. I’ve now got a b&t tiger and it’s brilliant, quiet, no poi shift nor drop in accuracy. On my hunting 22 I’ve got a leupold vx freedom rimfire 3x9, plenty good enough for a 22.