Thread: Ruger 10/22 - Tricks, tips and modifications

I only just seen this post and read your comments with interest gundoc as until you mentioned the push fit barrels l had forgotten about them.Back in 85 l was shooting rabbits professionally in oz and the mob we were shooting for had a deal where once you proved your worth you could purchase through them at dealer rates customized Brno Model 2's and also custom 10/22's which had the following done to them-trigger job set at 2lbs-barrel permanently fitted (l thought they were silver soldered but they may well have been loc-tited as you said)-Cleaning hole drilled and tapped-weaver bases with a 2x loopy fitted these were guaranteed to shoot 1/2 inch at 50 mtrs at most and all came with the test target. l got my boss to rummage through them at the office and got one that shot just over 3/8 with the plain wrap bulk winchester solids we used (everything had to be head shot).These were what we used to shoot in the sun set hours from the ute as we drove to our spotlighting block, the rabbits were that thick on the edge of the salt bush desert country where we shot a lot of the rabbits did not burrow but would just push up the salt bush into little hutches and squat there thinking they were safe,the 10/22's were easier to use than a bolt for the bulk shooting involved,we would then swap over to the Brno's for the spotlighting later we had to average 200 pair a night to make a good quid and we shot 250-300 pair a lot of the time.Those little rugers spent their whole working life covered in the fine talcum like desert dust and would only hiccup when maintenance was not kept up .All the work was done by a Gunsmith in Sydney named Heimo Petzl who also set up our Fox and roo Rem 700's in .222, l put that much lead through the ruger l could hit quail flying with it and head shooting rabbits on the run was no problem,l much later went on to represent my state in Skeet shooting and shot on invitation internationally and l really believe it was my time behind the butt on that Ruger that got me to that level.

,Gundoc did you use to bed them and put a crossbolt in through the rear trigger group pin?l posted elsewhere in the thread about the custom rugers we used and they were bedded and the cross bolts fitted and the front barrel band removed.

Originally Posted by bunji

,Gundoc did you use to bed them and put a crossbolt in through the rear trigger group pin?l posted elsewhere in the thread about the custom rugers we used and they were bedded and the cross bolts fitted and the front barrel band removed.

No, never bothered with bedding unless a customer specifically asked for it. I found the standard front action screw was perfectly adequate for good accuracy, and the barrel was sufficiently stiff to allow the use of the barrel band without problems. With the standard system the action is floating, and with the barrel permanently fitted they shot well.

Yes l was always dubious on it and in the end my rifle like a few others l heard of with that mod succumbed to cracking at this point,but it must be said they were shot 10X as much as a regular owner would in a life time over the 5 yrs l shot pro and we would totally strip and clean once a week,l have looked at a few of the high end modified 10/22's over the years and seen that none seemed to do this so figured it was of little real value.I have always thought the rugers got a bad rapp from owners neglect more than anything else.

Originally Posted by gundoc

Back to point of 10/22's, the factory barrels are perfectly accurate when properly fitted (just like the Norinco JW15's). Ultimitsu's post above is a real good example of how to waste money. My earlier post in this thread tells how to achieve the same results for well under $100. Go figure!

Well, good sir, your post puzzle me incredibly. I do not know you and I do not think you know me. What is with the hostility?

I have read all your posts in this thread, the only mod you are suggesting that would affect accuracy of the barrel is "permanently fix the barrel to the receiver". You appear to be saying both that - 1. this is the only cause of 10/22's reputed inaccuracy; and 2. if this is done the rifle should have very good accuracy.

That simply is not true.

There are a number of rifles that has similar quick barrel removal set ups, CZ455 and Sako Quad for example. Yet both are reputed to have accuracy on the other end of the spectrum as the 10/22. In fact, if you put ANY aftermarket slide-in barrel on a factory 10/22 you will notice an instant accuracy improvement. That proves that the problem is not the slide-in fitting but the 10/22 barrel itself.

As for the idea of "waste money". I am not sure what you mean. 10/22's aftermarket stocks and barrels are about the same price as any other guns' (and 10/22 needs them more than most). Are you suggesting that everyone who changes stock and barrel for any gun is wasting money?

The only expensive part that stands out for 10/22 is trigger upgrades. A top end trigger (KIDD 2 stage) cost 600 bucks, that is more than a base rifle. However because the way the factory trigger is designed and the semi-auto nature of the rifle, there is no cheaper way to achieve the same result. If you want to spend less, a drop-in kit cost about 40% that and gives you very good result.

Upgrading parts is expensive for any rifle. The appeal of 10/22 is that most of the upgraded stuff are very easy to install at home and little experience, tools, and hands-on-skill is required.

Originally Posted by Ultimitsu

Well, good sir, your post puzzle me incredibly. I do not know you and I do not think you know me. What is with the hostility?

I have read all your posts in this thread, the only mod you are suggesting that would affect accuracy of the barrel is "permanently fix the barrel to the receiver". You appear to be saying both that - 1. this is the only cause of 10/22's reputed inaccuracy; and 2. if this is done the rifle should have very good accuracy.

That simply is not true.

There are a number of rifles that has similar quick barrel removal set ups, CZ455 and Sako Quad for example. Yet both are reputed to have accuracy on the other end of the spectrum as the 10/22. In fact, if you put ANY aftermarket slide-in barrel on a factory 10/22 you will notice an instant accuracy improvement. That proves that the problem is not the slide-in fitting but the 10/22 barrel itself.

As for the idea of "waste money". I am not sure what you mean. 10/22's aftermarket stocks and barrels are about the same price as any other guns' (and 10/22 needs them more than most). Are you suggesting that everyone who changes stock and barrel for any gun is wasting money?

The only expensive part that stands out for 10/22 is trigger upgrades. A top end trigger (KIDD 2 stage) cost 600 bucks, that is more than a base rifle. However because the way the factory trigger is designed and the semi-auto nature of the rifle, there is no cheaper way to achieve the same result. If you want to spend less, a drop-in kit cost about 40% that and gives you very good result.

Upgrading parts is expensive for any rifle. The appeal of 10/22 is that most of the upgraded stuff are very easy to install at home and little experience, tools, and hands-on-skill is required.

I do not know you and intend no personal disrespect. I was simply pointing out that it is not neccesary to spend a large amount of money on aftermarket parts for the 10/22 when the same result (ie; MOA or better grouping) can be achieved with the factory components and some skilled handwork for less than $100. I will happily concede that a bad batch of 10/22 barrels did come through a few years ago over a period of a few months until the production problem was corrected (and a large number of barrels were replaced under warranty) but apart from that batch, all other Ruger 10/22 factory barrels have been capable of MOA or better accuracy. Getting that accuracy potential out of them required the steps I have mentioned (trigger job, barrel refit, better scope base). The buffer pin replacement protects the telescopic sights from damage (many of the 'scopes have reticules that are made by a metal printing process that is quite fragile to the 'double tap' that occurs when the bolt contacts the steel pin under recoil) and the tuned recoil spring make the rifle reliable with subsonic ammo. Other than the 'scope protection offered by the buffer pin, these last two items have no bearing on accuracy. The trigger job is an essential thing to bring out the best in all Rugers (and most other rifles) as they are usually set quite heavy at the factory for product liability protection in the USA. The standard 10/22 trigger mechanism can be tuned to a crisp and reliable 2lbs by a person with the required skills and a thorough understanding of the many nuances of trigger mechanisms. I can do such trigger jobs in 15 minutes, but then I have the benefit of having worked on thousands of 10/22's since my first one in 1966. Over the years I did a large number of full custom 10/22's incorporating all of the ideas that are now touted by various aftermarket manufacturers as being the best thing since sliced bread, and they turned out very good but at a fairly high price. I could tune the factory 10/22's to the same level of performance and did a vast number of them at $40 a pop. If I could do them for that (and make good money at it) as recently as 4 years ago, then I am assuming that a suitably skilled young gunsmith today could achieve the same results for under $100 (or am I expecting too much to get under that price for 40 minutes work?). Regarding the take-down barrel systems on the Sako Quad and the CZ455, they are both mechanically superior to the Ruger 10/22 system (subject to being correctly fitted by the shooter). Rest assured that you, and your fellow enthusiasts that subscribe to the aftermarket parts syndrome, will continue to put a smile on retailers faces for years to come! More power to your elbow! In conclusion I must point out that the greatest contributing factor to the accurate performance of any rifle lies with the shooter. I don't know of any rifle available new on the NZ market that is not capable of better performance (for its intended purpose) than most shooters are capable of achieving under normal conditions. With the exception of specialised target rifles, .22 rimfire rifles are manufactured for the hunting of small game out to a maximum range of 100 metres (although most small game is taken at shorter ranges). A rifle capable of MOA performance will kill any small game at 100 metres in the right hands, and a tuned, but otherwise standard, 10/22 will certainly do that. But hey, what do I know? Now that I am retired from a successful 50 year career as a gunsmith and have managed to save a shilling, I buy aftermarket bits for my Corvette just because I like the look! I am not able to drive it to its full potential.

You can certainly do fair amount of tinkering with any rifle and improve its accuracy, a lot of people do that with JW15. The lower end and the rougher the factory job, the more improvement potential for home jobs.

However, to say that "it is not neccesary [sic] to spend a large amount of money on aftermarket parts for the 10/22 when [sic] the same result" is simply not true. There is no amount of work you can do to the factory barrel to bring it to the same level as a Kidd/Lilja/Whistlepig/Magnum Research barrel. If it did these companies would not have existed. Or olympic shooters would be shooting 50 USD ruger barrels, instead of 450 USD Lilja barrels. here is a test at 100 yards/91 metres. KIDD does 0.261 MOA with real match ammo, and 0.481 MOA with CCI standard velocity. Try that with a factory ruger.

As far as hunting goes, there are two different aspects of it. If you always shoot with a rest/bipod/stand, then you do not really need a very accurate rifle. a 1.5 inch/50 meters rifle will be good enough - so called "minute of rabbit". However if you shoot free hand all the time, and if your own hand introduces about 1.5 inches of spread at 50 meters, putting another 1.5 inches on top of that is too much. That is why some people like to have target shooting level accuracy in their hunting rifles. I am a hobbyist who shoot possums free hand 100% the time. 1/3 standing, 1/3 kneeling, 1/3 sitting. Factory ruger's accuracy does not cut it no matter how much work is put in.

To be sure, I do not advocate for tinkering 10/22 at all. My view has been explained in previous posts but I elaborate it again:

1. if you want to have an accurate rifle for the least amount of money and trouble, do not buy 10/22. buy marlin, cz452 or em332.
2. if you really want to play with a 10/22, buy the cheapest secondhand on trademe and stick with it as is. Personally I have never found the appeal of a normal factory 10/22. the new ones are fairly pricy for what you guy, not particularly handsome, and feels cheap with all the plastic parts.
3. if you want a competition class semi-auto, buy a full 3rd party 10/22 such as Kidd or Magnum Research.
4. it is ONLY if you already have a 10/22 and REALLY want to give it competition class accuracy, you should buy after-market parts. Many after market parts are not necessary for accuracy purposes, only buffer, barrel and trigger are strictly speaking necessary.

Originally Posted by Ultimitsu

3. if you want a competition class semi-auto, buy a full 3rd party 10/22 such as Kidd or Magnum Research.
4. it is ONLY if you already have a 10/22 and REALLY want to give it competition class accuracy, you should buy after-market parts. Many after market parts are not necessary for accuracy purposes, only buffer, barrel and trigger are strictly speaking necessary.

I would disagree in part with these two statements.

With regards to comment #3 "if you want a competition class semi-auto" I would suggest buy one that is not Ruger. The Kidd and the MR have replaced so much that they are really a new rifle with possibly a couple of cheap substitute Ruger parts added. (Think "Dads old Axe---New handle, third head and still in the same leather cover"

And regarding comment #4 "it is ONLY if you already have a 10/22 and REALLY want to give it competition class accuracy," then the cheapest option is to trade it on another rifle that IS what you really want.

I like the Ruger 10/22 and the Ruger has an outstandingly practical design. Simple, effective and relatively easy to manufacture. If they are purchased for what they were designed and built for they work well (usually) and that is as a practical, simple semi auto 22 for doing what 22s do. They leave a lot of potential for improvement but if this happened ex factory they would be much much dearer and less available. Its almost like saying "I want a Porsche, so I'll buy a VW and tweak it with some Porsche parts.

Originally Posted by timattalon

I would disagree in part with these two statements.

With regards to comment #3 "if you want a competition class semi-auto" I would suggest buy one that is not Ruger. The Kidd and the MR have replaced so much that they are really a new rifle with possibly a couple of cheap substitute Ruger parts added. (Think "Dads old Axe---New handle, third head and still in the same leather cover"

That is exactly what I said, KIDD and MagRes are not Ruger. the only ruger part is the mag.

Unless you are talking about buying non-10/22 design entirely. In that case I actually know of no other competition class semi-auto. CZ and Annie semi-auto both sort of suck.

Originally Posted by timattalon

And regarding comment #4 "it is ONLY if you already have a 10/22 and REALLY want to give it competition class accuracy," then the cheapest option is to trade it on another rifle that IS what you really want.

Well, it is not that simple. Because secondhand competition class semi-auto do not come up often. You sell your existing ruger you take a hit, then you may have to buy a new rifle. Not every part needs to be replaced. you can get away with just upgrading the barrel and trigger. If you are able to get your hands on Lilja barrels, you can get sporter contour and you can even stick to the existing stock. Or inlet the existing stock to fit bull barrel.

Originally Posted by timattalon

I like the Ruger 10/22 and the Ruger has an outstandingly practical design. Simple, effective and relatively easy to manufacture. If they are purchased for what they were designed and built for they work well (usually) and that is as a practical, simple semi auto 22 for doing what 22s do. They leave a lot of potential for improvement but if this happened ex factory they would be much much dearer and less available.

Marlin owners will tell you that M60 and 795 are just as simple, effective, practical, but much more accurate ex-factory, and are cheaper. Several already expressed such view in this thread. I never shot a Marlin so I take no position in that debate.

Originally Posted by Ultimitsu

That is exactly what I said, KIDD and MagRes are not Ruger. the only ruger part is the mag.

Unless you are talking about buying non-10/22 design entirely. In that case I actually know of no other competition class semi-auto. CZ and Annie semi-auto both sort of suck.



Well, it is not that simple. Because secondhand competition class semi-auto do not come up often. You sell your existing ruger you take a hit, then you may have to buy a new rifle. Not every part needs to be replaced. you can get away with just upgrading the barrel and trigger. If you are able to get your hands on Lilja barrels, you can get sporter contour and you can even stick to the existing stock. Or inlet the existing stock to fit bull barrel.




Marlin owners will tell you that M60 and 795 are just as simple, effective, practical, but much more accurate ex-factory, and are cheaper. Several already expressed such view in this thread. I never shot a Marlin so I take no position in that debate.

exactly!
10/22 Pooze,

marlin model 60 deluxe rules!

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by Ultimitsu

Marlin owners will tell you that M60 and 795 are just as simple, effective, practical, but much more accurate ex-factory, and are cheaper. Several already expressed such view in this thread. I never shot a Marlin so I take no position in that debate.

And there are , by all accounts, more marlins out there than Rugers so no disagreement from me.

You are bang on about the Annie semi auto too from what I have seen and heard.

The whole point is the 10/22 is designed and built to be a practical inexpensive carbine. It is not designed or spec'd to be a target rifle. Thus if someone wants a target grade rifle then this is not really what they are looking at.I have not handled a MagRes or a Kidd version so cannot say they are (or are not) that good, but those that I know who have one seem very happy with them and certainly seem to get good accuracy.

The only down side to these, that I have seen, is when people see a MR or Kidd at the range, (or a 10/22 that has had extensive upgrading to be really accurate) they recognize the 10/22 and most assume that all the 10/22s shoot this well because they have seen one do so then they go buy one and low and behold, it shoots like a 10/22 and they are disappointed.....

I bought my 10/22 because I wanted to run subsonic .22 ammo on bunnies where a measure of discretion was required. I accepted the realities and limitations of both the calibre and the rifle.

Target-rifle accuracy is not an expectation; misses are most frequently attributable to the shooter (me).

On the orchard where longer ranges are a reality and noise isn't a worry, I happily use my .22magnum. Much better accuracy.

But nothing beats the fun of plinking a few tin cans for not much more than $10 for 50 rounds.

I reckon I've got it right!

And yes I've tarted up my 10/22 with a choate dragunov stock and intend to talk to @gundoc here about a wee tune-up to at least eliminate/minimise any rifle error whilst keeping it real. It's all fun!!!

Originally Posted by timattalon

The whole point is the 10/22 is designed and built to be a practical inexpensive carbine. It is not designed or spec'd to be a target rifle. Thus if someone wants a target grade rifle then this is not really what they are looking at.
....

What tends to happen, and I have seen it happen quite a few times, is that ruger 10/22 often is the first gun for new licence holders. Either because their friends told them "10/22 is cool" or salesman recommended it. Either way, many start their shooting journey with a 10/22. They did not expect a competition class shooter but they also did not expect below par accuracy. Soon they found accuracy to be wanting, they start looking around for ways to improve. In fact, within this sub-forum you can see people asking about trigger, group, mods, etc. Isn't it ironic that more marlins are sold yet fewer marlinians are asking these questions?

Originally Posted by timattalon

I have not handled a MagRes or a Kidd version so cannot say they are (or are not) that good, but those that I know who have one seem very happy with them and certainly seem to get good accuracy.

If you live in Auckland, you can go to waitakere sporting rifle club in swanson. at the least 3 to 4 shooters shoot Kidd. Including the NZ retailer Darin. I am sure they will be happy to demonstrate Kidd's accuracy to you. For enthusiast class target shooters in indoor 25 metre range, Kidd's performance is good as Anschutz's - ever so slight lesser accuracy but more shooter consistency.

MagRes is harder to come across. Guncity and Serious Shooters sold a few of them several years back, I have seen no other ones on the market. About one appear on trademe every 18 month or so (and usually not cheap). A friend of mine owns one. Overall quality is very close to Kidd, but the trigger is standard design and medium weight.

Originally Posted by Ultimitsu

If you live in Auckland, you can go to waitakere sporting rifle club in swanson. at the least 3 to 4 shooters shoot Kidd. Including the NZ retailer Darin. I am sure they will be happy to demonstrate Kidd's accuracy to you. For enthusiast class target shooters in indoor 25 metre range, Kidd's performance is good as Anschutz's - ever so slight lesser accuracy but more shooter consistency.

Darin is a real GC too. I've used his rifle, and it is scary nice. Like a laser. I was doing groups of 5 in a breath, it was unreal fun. If I was to get into that sort of shooting proper-like, I'd just save myself all the running around and throw a roll of cash at him and end up better off than fucking around trying to make one from a factory offering. You'd literally end up binning pretty much the whole rifle, so why bother?

Soon they found accuracy to be wanting, they start looking around for ways to improve. In fact, within this sub-forum you can see people asking about trigger, group, mods, etc. Isn't it ironic that more marlins are sold yet fewer marlinians are asking these questions?

The marlin semi (takes various model names of course) has outsold the 10/22 twice over worldwide, it's just here that it's the other way around for some reason

Originally Posted by Tommy

The marlin semi (takes various model names of course) has outsold the 10/22 twice over worldwide, it's just here that it's the other way around for some reason

You're dead right about that.