RUN AWAY DEER

Last week i missed 3 deer between 150-200yds in one night,easy shots broad side.Have missed another a few weeks back,and other easy shot.Have shot 7 deer inbetween the missed deer.When iv missed deer,sometimes i see dust flying up from the missed shots.
So tonight i went out to the range,bit of nor west from left to right.Rifle had been checked over,gave the barrel a gental hoppys patch clean.Fired one shot as a fowling shot,about a inch high,then fired 3 more off to see if rifle shooting level,not bad 1/4 inch high.Then put my InFiRay CH50V2 clipon on,nice and firmly clamped on objective bell.Thermal screen very close to centre zero,no cross hair in thermal.Fired off 2 shots,dust flu up,wtf.Dialed up 1 moa,managed to get 3 shots on cardboard 19inch low and 6 inchs to the right(by blue dots),Now what could be the problem?,last year i shot 22 deer with this set up,but on a 18 inch barrel tika,this is a 22 inch barrel tikka.Is the weight of the thermal playing with the harmonics of rifle.Maybe clamping on the thermal affecting the day scope?
19 inchs below zero is a lot.
Attachment 243082
Couple of weeks ago I shot this with thermal on.
Attachment 243083

Suggestion: With the Thermal attached can you somehow clamp the rifle rigidly to a shooting bench with the crosshair centered on target when looking through the Thermal. Then, carefully, without moving the rifle, detach the Thermal and look through only the scope to see if the crosshair is off-centre at all ? What I would suspect, and could be wrong about, is that something in the relationship to scope and Thermal is not right. Kinda hard to imagine any detriment to rifle harmonics from what you describe. The rifle seems to be still capable of shooting a reasonable group, further suggesting the issue does not reside there.
I hate when these sorts of issues with rifles / sights arise. It drives me nuts.

Hi 30.06king,iv been thinking about that relationship between the clamping on day scope affecting the day scope retical.Maybe the forward weight on the day scope affecting it.Never had a problem last yr,same set up,just longer barrel this year.hmmm.
To be shooting low by nearlly 2 feet at a 100yds,the clip weight pulling the day scope down at the front=lifthing the back up.Im talking in micro measurement here.
Rail or scope ring micro loose at rear of day scope.il look into this.

So when you changed to the new rifle I assume you used the same scope and you had to adjust it to get it on zero? The clip on indexes off the outside of the scope bell. When you resighted the day scope for the new rifle you change the position of the reticle in reference to the bell. That being the case you will have to zero the clip on to the new reticle position. I know you didnt need to do this for the first rifle but as a few of us said in previous discussion, you just got very lucky.

Theres a buttom to move thermal zero (centre)up n down,left n rigth.Thermal screen centre of day scope.Only retical i see is day scope retical,thermal just acts as a monocular on front.

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Originally Posted by Trout

thermal just acts as a monocular on front.

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No it dosn't. Its not a see through device. It projects an image onto a screen and you have to align the screen with your day scope reticle. Its very clear in the instruction's. Well as clear as chinese translations can be. Its why your unit has different profiles for different rifles... G1 -G2- etc. So you can zero the clip for individual rifle/scope set ups.

The manual is here https://manuals.plus/inf-iray/clip-c...#axzz8QnWJNTco

Heres the relevant clause in the manual


Installing Clip CH50 on the daylight sight and repeat the calibration steps above.
Then aim at the target at 100 meters and shoot. Measure the horizontal distance and vertical distance between the bullet hitting point and the aiming point afterward.
In normal display mode, press and hold down M (5) button to enter the image calibration interface. Pressing the P (4) button or C (6) button briefly to move the position of the infrared image and long press to achieve a quick shift. Pressing M (5) button to switch the orientation of the X-axis (left-right) and Y-axis (up-down) while the moving distance is displayed synchronously above the icon. (as shown in figures 6-3)
When the calibration is done, long-press M (5) button to save and exit the calibration interface.


Read more: https://manuals.plus/inf-iray/clip-c...#ixzz8QnWqu8QT

Thanks for yr input sneeze,yr name is killing me.iv had bad hayfever the last week.lols
Il look into want you have said in detail.Cheers

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Originally Posted by Trout

Thanks for yr input sneeze,yr name is killing me.iv had bad hayfever the last week.lols
Il look into want you have said in detail.Cheers

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:thumbsup: Its hay fever season all right. Drop me a PM if your still having problems. Iv worked through a few issues with the V2 clip , I might be of some use.
Iray put out a CH50W version a year ago which they called "ready to shoot" but it seems even that needs some tweaking.

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Originally Posted by sneeze

So when you changed to the new rifle I assume you used the same scope and you had to adjust it to get it on zero? The clip on indexes off the outside of the scope bell. When you resighted the day scope for the new rifle you change the position of the reticle in reference to the bell. That being the case you will have to zero the clip on to the new reticle position. I know you didnt need to do this for the first rifle but as a few of us said in previous discussion, you just got very lucky.

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Yup. This.

Thanks for yr input sneeze,yr name is killing me.iv had bad hayfever the last week.lols
I have the screen on G2 dead centre of day scope,when i turn unit off,the count down numbers are dead centre of day scope retical.Dont think i was on G2 last night and the unit was coming loose on scope after the 1st shot.Il sort this.I done a factory reset,i see what you mean above sneeze.Il sort it.cheers.
I only have one rifle,so once sorted i wont be changing settings.Just check it everytimei put thermal on scope.Il put all the Gs on centre.

Hi sneeze,when i quick press the menu,centre button.The brightness icon(sun) shows up dead centre of the day scope reitical.Am i on the right track for center screen to day scope centre?This is on G2.

Thermals have a reputation for dropping zero as temp changes. Ask a pest shooter…

It dosn't matter which profile you are on. They are for storing the settings for different individual rifle/scope set ups. It allows you to use settings you have previously set up by simply switching profiles. EG: I use G1 for my 223 and G2 for my 243ai. While they are both 100yd zeros in the day scope they need different screen positions to work correctly. I have worked through the zeroing process on the clip for each of these rifles and stored them in the said profiles. The change stored for my 223 is X axis +3.2--- Y axis -8 and my 243 is X axis + 4.8--- Y axis -6.4 . You need to choose one for your set up and dont change it unless you are swapping rifles.
Centering the screen is not that usefull as you don't know where your reticle is in relation to the out side objective bell. For example if in zeroing your day scope you had to adjust ,lets say, 8moa up and 3 moa left. That puts the reticle well off center in relation to the objective bell so a centered screen will not align with your day scope reticle. Its the relationship between the reticle and the screen that's important.. There is no shortcut here. You have to follow the instrucions, shoot and adjust then store to your chosen profile. There's another step regarding e zero but Just start with the lowest zoom in the clip and ignore that for now for now.

This is where the sight pic for the settings on G2 for my 243. Note how far off the center the reticle is .

Attachment 243087

Front mount systems both thermal and nv are well known for needing realigning every time they're fitted

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Originally Posted by Marty Henry

Front mount systems both thermal and nv are well known for needing realigning every time they're fitted

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The Russan attachments are pretty bomb proof and very repeatable. Mine has never shifted and it gets lots of work and a rough time.

The key to the whole thing with clip ons is to sight the clip on in with the particular scope (you are getting the thermal and the scope in perfect alignment). You can only do it accurately by firing shots and adjusting the X&Y coordinates. You only need to do it with the thermal once and then it doesn't matter what alteration you make to that particular scope zero.

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Originally Posted by 300_BLK

Thermals have a reputation for dropping zero as temp changes. Ask a pest shooter…

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Can’t say I’ve noticed thermals dropping zero with temp. changes. At least no different than a lot of conventional vari-power scopes changing zoom range. Used two different Pulsars on AR over 5 year period with no issues. Sighted in during day, warm obviously, using heated target. Used at night during lambing, often cold as fuck, no issues. HIKMICRO no issues that I can recall. Mind you, the price of most of it there shouldn’t be any problems. I’ve used thermal and no gear since before available to general public and they’ve improved greatly over the years. That said though, I mostly use HIKMICRO Alpex A50T nv these days. Cheaper to replace when you break it and they do break/have a limited lifetime.

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Originally Posted by woods223

Can’t say I’ve noticed thermals dropping zero with temp. changes. At least no different than a lot of conventional vari-power scopes changing zoom range. Used two different Pulsars on AR over 5 year period with no issues. Sighted in during day, warm obviously, using heated target. Used at night during lambing, often cold as fuck, no issues. HIKMICRO no issues that I can recall. Mind you, the price of most of it there shouldn’t be any problems. I’ve used thermal and no gear since before available to general public and they’ve improved greatly over the years. That said though, I mostly use HIKMICRO Alpex A50T nv these days. Cheaper to replace when you break it and they do break/have a limited lifetime.

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Are you going to get the new 4K Hikmicro?

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Originally Posted by Marty Henry

Front mount systems both thermal and nv are well known for needing realigning every time they're fitted

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No thats a bit of a hangover from the past . Todays bayonet fittings , rusan , smartclip etc are very repeatable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykI3rj0qMI8

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Originally Posted by sneeze

No thats a bit of a hangover from the past . Todays bayonet fittings , rusan , smartclip etc are very repeatable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykI3rj0qMI8

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Im running a Rusan to V1 Hikmicro one piece mount and it is very repeatable once set

@Tahr. Not considering upgrading at this stage. I generally recon. the area and check ranges before night shooting and occasionally use green led torch and handheld rangefinder if unsure about range, animals mostly don’t get too alerted doing this. Happy enough for now with magnification and resolution of current setup. Still use my green led torch and day scope setup from time to time. Older stuff still works fine.

Well finally had calmish day,over cast and still a nice 30c down to 26c at 9pm.I went to the range to sort this clip on out.Started 5 pm at a 100mtrs,hmm this no good,down to 50mtrs.Glad i took 2 pkts of 147gr fmj 308 ammo.After fire a few shots to get on paper thru the clip on and shifting x y about after mearsureing each shot.What a job,pushig buttons to hard now n then.But i got some shots on a 2inch circle.now the 100 mtrs,well i must have walked 5 ks between shots.Managed to get on paper after a dozen shots or so.From start to 4hrs later,got a fmj with in 40mm of target.Let the rifle cool down for 30minuts,took suppresser off.Usig my hornady 165gr ssts,got a group about 40mm up,20mm right of point.Next group 10mm high and 10mmright of point.
In photo,blue aim point.green last fmj,red my last ssts shots.9pm got home bugger but please with my results.I give the 308 a wee wet patch and clean.Go back out to the range for a final wee group of hunting shots with a stone cold barrel.Big thanks to sneeze for his advice and me for listing which can be hard to do at my young age.
Attachment 243204

I've found the same thing with clipping a thermal on and off. Now I don't remove it from the rifle it is fine.
My thoughts is that the problem is in the QR

I find black plastic good in day time,thermal on black heat and day scope on green dot.Got good visual hold on black dot.But in the evening 8.30pm on,switch back to white heat on thermal.I could see the fine cross hairs on the corner of tinfoil and hold a nice steady fine aim on silver corrner. Once iv done a fine zero,il see it 1 inch high.Then il set G2 to zero and dial it up 3 inchs high.Make it very quick to move thermal from 1'' high to 3" high.
Previus rifle i had 3 different scopes with clipon on,never zeroed.Sometimes head n neck shoot deer no problem.Anyhow got it sorted,thanks guys for your advice,us old farts dont like changing our ways and thorts sometimes.Now for somedeer.
Oh question here.
Now the thermal on zero at a 100yds,to dial up 3 inchs.Do i dial up 3 inchs on thermal and day scope together.or just dial thermal up or just leave thermal on zero and dial day scope up 3 inchs.

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Originally Posted by Tahr

The Russan attachments are pretty bomb proof and very repeatable. Mine has never shifted and it gets lots of work and a rough time.

The key to the whole thing with clip ons is to sight the clip on in with the particular scope (you are getting the thermal and the scope in perfect alignment). You can only do it accurately by firing shots and adjusting the X&Y coordinates. You only need to do it with the thermal once and then it doesn't matter what alteration you make to that particular scope zero.

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Just spotted my answers above tahr,hope you are right.Once thermal zeroed leave alone and just dial day scope up where you want.Il try it soon.

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Originally Posted by Trout

Just spotted my answers above tahr,hope you are right.Once thermal zeroed leave alone and just dial day scope up where you want.Il try it soon.

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Yes. Don't touch the clip on once it's sighted in. Remember though that firstly your clip on must be shooting to the same point of impact as your scope does. Any variation between the 2 will always be there otherwise.

Mine nearly drove me crazy getting it right. But once it was Ive never touched it again.

I use these Rusan mounts and get 100% repeatability between mounting. https://www.huntthenight.com.au/search-results?q=rusan

Cheers,so when both are zeroed at a 100mtrs.Can I dial up day scope like normal say 3inchs,dont touch thermal.And get the 3inch dial up results.
I have a smaller Rusan adaptor,could swap for a 51mm adaptor.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Trout

Cheers,so when both are zeroed at a 100mtrs.Can I dial up day scope like normal say 3inchs,dont touch thermal.And get the 3inch dial up results.
I have a smaller Rusan adaptor,could swap for a 51mm adaptor.

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Yes thats right. Your dialling will work exactly as if there is no clip-on attached.

I think that its a very cool system but it can be frustrating to set up. Especially I think for us old farts.

With the hikmicro clipon, the easiest way I've found is using the reticle to measure the number of units between impact and your day scope crosshairs
Then make those changes on the image calibration setting.
They are pixle sizes I think not mil or moa

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Trout

Well finally had calmish day,over cast and still a nice 30c down to 26c at 9pm.I went to the range to sort this clip on out.Started 5 pm at a 100mtrs,hmm this no good,down to 50mtrs.Glad i took 2 pkts of 147gr fmj 308 ammo.After fire a few shots to get on paper thru the clip on and shifting x y about after mearsureing each shot.What a job,pushig buttons to hard now n then.But i got some shots on a 2inch circle.now the 100 mtrs,well i must have walked 5 ks between shots.Managed to get on paper after a dozen shots or so.From start to 4hrs later,got a fmj with in 40mm of target.Let the rifle cool down for 30minuts,took suppresser off.Usig my hornady 165gr ssts,got a group about 40mm up,20mm right of point.Next group 10mm high and 10mmright of point.
In photo,blue aim point.green last fmj,red my last ssts shots.9pm got home bugger but please with my results.I give the 308 a wee wet patch and clean.Go back out to the range for a final wee group of hunting shots with a stone cold barrel.Big thanks to sneeze for his advice and me for listing which can be hard to do at my young age.

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Nice work. They can be frustrating but good once you come to grips with the system. The last step is to calibrate the E zoom if you haven't already done it. It prevents changes in poi when you shift to a different zoom in the clip. Its the function on the sub menu after the zeroing function. You can do it at the dinner table with the attachment fitted. Pull up the function and a white reticle will appear, just shift it with the x and y axis till it lines up with your day scope reticle then lock as per the zeroing function. If you don't use the electronic zoom and stay on the same stetting you used to sight in then its not an issue but Id do it any way. Note that the e zoom calibration will not lock to the profile so if you change profiles you need to redo it each time. it only takes 20-30 seconds so a bit annoying not a big deal.

Hi sneeze,just been out to the range tonight,no wind perfect.Gave the tika 308 a gentle hoppys patch wipe.At the range i fired one fowling shot into the hill,old cheap soft point bullet.Lined up the fine reticle lines with the corner of tin foil(bit blueish)squeezed off 3 shots.Very nice group for cold bore n old eyes.Ok 3 thermal clks left.Fired off 3 shots,hmm bit left,so one thermal clip back n fired off 3 shots.Nice pretty much dead centre.Actually in the left group of 5 theres 2 bullets in one hole= middle hole.Did some measuring and the group is exactly centre to edge of tin foil.
Dialed up 3.5 inchs,good got dial up with thermal on zero.
Most important thing,write down the numbers for x y.Thermal was on 1x mag,day scope on 3x with big wfv.Hope to go deer watching next week.Shouldnt be any misses now.
Attachment 243289

No stopping you now.

Seems like you should be able to get the clip on lined up for a scope then sight the scope in on another rifle and expect the clip on to still be right.

No you gota track those bullet holes around after day scope sited in.

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Originally Posted by Trout

No you gota track those bullet holes around after day scope sited in.

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I think Brian means that if you put that scope onto another rifle it should be still lined up for the thermal so you would just have to sight the scope in.

Hmm ye maybe if same cal,bullet and barrel length.Wouldnt be far away,im not go to find out either.Had enough sighting in for the next 6 months.lols

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Originally Posted by Trout

Hmm ye maybe if same cal,bullet and barrel length.Wouldnt be far away,im not go to find out either.Had enough sighting in for the next 6 months.lols

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:)

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Originally Posted by sneeze

Nice work. They can be frustrating but good once you come to grips with the system. The last step is to calibrate the E zoom if you haven't already done it. It prevents changes in poi when you shift to a different zoom in the clip. Its the function on the sub menu after the zeroing function. You can do it at the dinner table with the attachment fitted. Pull up the function and a white reticle will appear, just shift it with the x and y axis till it lines up with your day scope reticle then lock as per the zeroing function. If you don't use the electronic zoom and stay on the same stetting you used to sight in then its not an issue but Id do it any way. Note that the e zoom calibration will not lock to the profile so if you change profiles you need to redo it each time. it only takes 20-30 seconds so a bit annoying not a big deal.

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Ok il look into this sometime,i dont use clip zoom,lot quicker to dail up day scope a bit.Zeroed clip with day scope on3x,dont go to 4x,5x much on day scope.I do like dialing up the day scope without affecting the clipon settings.
Cheers.

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Originally Posted by sneeze

Nice work. They can be frustrating but good once you come to grips with the system. The last step is to calibrate the E zoom if you haven't already done it. It prevents changes in poi when you shift to a different zoom in the clip. Its the function on the sub menu after the zeroing function. You can do it at the dinner table with the attachment fitted. Pull up the function and a white reticle will appear, just shift it with the x and y axis till it lines up with your day scope reticle then lock as per the zeroing function. If you don't use the electronic zoom and stay on the same stetting you used to sight in then its not an issue but Id do it any way. Note that the e zoom calibration will not lock to the profile so if you change profiles you need to redo it each time. it only takes 20-30 seconds so a bit annoying not a big deal.

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Done E zoom,easy as,tryed cross hairs on bird on back lawn,zoom up n down,cross hairs moves all over the place well away from bird.Move ezoom cross to day scope cross(locked in),zoomed thermal up n down,cross stayed on the bird.Makes a deer look easy.Good stuff.
Thanks again sneeze.:thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Trout

Done E zoom,easy as,tryed cross hairs on bird on back lawn,zoom up n down,cross hairs moves all over the place well away from bird.Move ezoom cross to day scope cross(locked in),zoomed thermal up n down,cross stayed on the bird.Makes a deer look easy.Good stuff.
Thanks again sneeze.:thumbsup:

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Dragged screaming and kicking into 21st century :) :)
Good outcome and all set up.