Thread: Sales through the register

Originally Posted by No.3

Hear what your point is - but if GrandDad is past using them, under the medical or competency standards there's a technical thing about him still being 'fit and proper' I would say. It kind of answers the question you raise... The 30-day transfer and possession requirement means it will likely end up on your ticket as well. A bit of a side line from the original question though to be fair.

The sale thing becomes a bit of a question though, you sight the purchaser's license and check it's valid on the online checker, get paid, hand the firearm over and then notify the regulator and do your bit. Regulator marks the transfer as pending, nothing after 30 days so go after the purchaser - who comes back with "Huh? not me... I didn't buy a firearm recently...". Then what?

That last bit was going to be my question too.
Especially as @dannyb suggested on phone deals. How do you know if you are dealing with a legit licence holder or hacker?

Originally Posted by 7mmwsm

That last bit was going to be my question too.
Especially as @dannyb suggested on phone deals. How do you know if you are dealing with a legit licence holder or hacker?

If you are not handing the firearm over in person then you should be doing the police mail order form so they can check both the buyer and seller are legit.

Originally Posted by dannyb

If you are not handing the firearm over in person then you should be doing the police mail order form so they can check both the buyer and seller are legit.

Same as always has been, it's up to seller to make sure there licensed

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Originally Posted by dannyb

If you are not handing the firearm over in person then you should be doing the police mail order form so they can check both the buyer and seller are legit.

Then you end up with the HDPA mail order thing all over again, Police S43a form checks out, gets approved, you send it and notify the regulator who marks it as pending yet the guy who apparently brought it denies all knowledge... The only way forward if you go to that level is sighting the licence at the time the purchaser picks up the thing and before you hand it over make sure they do the paperwork. Otherwise it ends up being a manual physical transfer - you drop the piece off at the handling outfit and complete the paperwork to take if off your ticket as sold, the next owner picks it up and transfers it before leaving. What a pain in the bum...

They will be nudging us towards the aussie system. Oh well people arent registering when they sell privatley so now all sales have to go through a dealer which is fine in theory but ad we all know its still not going to stop crims getting guns...

I would be keeping a paper trail of any permits/buyers details sale date etc to cover myself if things don't go as planned as it will up to the last "registered owner" in the fsa system to prove that they did with the firearm.

Good info that clears it up. So do you give fsa the new owners details when you sell?

Originally Posted by blip

Good info that clears it up. So do you give fsa the new owners details when you sell?

You give the FSA the new owners full name, FAL number and date of birth, plus the details of the firearm obviously

Originally Posted by dannyb

You give the FSA the new owners full name, FAL number and date of birth, plus the details of the firearm obviously

so I'm probably being to logical here but surely that's all that would be required to register firearm to new owner..

It's the same here.
I bought a Rifle last year that the guy two owners back had never done the paperwork on. Meaning both I am the previous owner had processed it illegally.

I had to take it to a gunshop they put it on their books until it all got sorted out two months later.

Fucking clown world.

That sounds along the lines of what they do in aussie.

I think this is all slightly missing my original point.

I did everything by the book for 2 idenctical (but separate) transactions. One mail order form ended up with the rifle as pending on my account which is less than ideal but I can see the logic, the other mail order form had no impact on the rifle sitting registered to me at all - no record that I had done anything with it.

While the inconsistencies between the two are annoying its the potential impact of the second one that really grinds my gears.

If, and yes it's a real big "if", the new owner of that second rifle uses it to commit a crime then its my door the AOS will be banging on in the middle of the night, my family pulled out of bed, my dog that gets shot, my guns that all get confiscated and just thrown in the back seat of the police car and me that will be arrested and taken into custody while they figure out that actually it was just their paperwork issue. The AOS guys that get me out of bed aren't going to listen when I say I sold that gun, and they are most certainly not going to thumb through all the recent paper forms sitting on the arms officers desk before getting geared up and heading to my house.

As I use firearms daily for my business that would all be a massive cluster fudge to untangle and would likely be weeks before I'm reunited with my guns and allowed back online for my clients.

Pessimistic view for sure, but it's all possible just from one person's inconsistent handling of the mail order piece of paper.

Originally Posted by Mintie

I think this is all slightly missing my original point.

I did everything by the book for 2 idenctical (but separate) transactions. One mail order form ended up with the rifle as pending on my account which is less than ideal but I can see the logic, the other mail order form had no impact on the rifle sitting registered to me at all - no record that I had done anything with it.

While the inconsistencies between the two are annoying its the potential impact of the second one that really grinds my gears.

If, and yes it's a real big "if", the new owner of that second rifle uses it to commit a crime then its my door the AOS will be banging on in the middle of the night, my family pulled out of bed, my dog that gets shot, my guns that all get confiscated and just thrown in the back seat of the police car and me that will be arrested and taken into custody while they figure out that actually it was just their paperwork issue. The AOS guys that get me out of bed aren't going to listen when I say I sold that gun, and they are most certainly not going to thumb through all the recent paper forms sitting on the arms officers desk before getting geared up and heading to my house.

As I use firearms daily for my business that would all be a massive cluster fudge to untangle and would likely be weeks before I'm reunited with my guns and allowed back online for my clients.

Pessimistic view for sure, but it's all possible just from one person's inconsistent handling of the mail order piece of paper.

We only gave to look at the number of errors in the "buyback" records to see your (and my) concerns aren't pessimistic they are real.

@Mintie - you really should pass the details directly to Nicole McKie so they ACT has first-hand information that they can use.

When it comes to firearms, you can't afford to be a glass half full type of person - a belts and braces approach is the only way to avoid what Mintie fears. The police turning up in force with a warrant is not an outcome any of us would want. If they have found a firearm registered in your name at a crime scene, and if the paperwork has become stuck because of someone else's errors, you are going to be treated as guilty until proven innocent. Lawyers don't come cheap, and if firearms are your business, it will be a double blow as you will have to put income generation on ice for a while as things get sorted out.