Thread: Scope musings

Originally Posted by ZQLewis

I would suggest a 2-10 or 2-12 for General hunting with a 308. Thats like an open sights shot at 50 mtr on a deer size target. Your not shooting rabbits.
Unless you do a lot of hunting you need to keep it simple or you get caught out.

My last hunt was a goat hunt on cut over forestry, I started out prone then moved to seated back against a stump and using my knee for suport on the edge of a Hauler site shooting down hill. We started at 1-200 mtr then and a mob pop up at 10 mtr running across infront of me. Getting the 4-16x scope wound down and I forgot the parallex (focus) meant I could not see or find the goats clearly in the scope so just shot both eyes open.
To be fair I would have been better off with a diffferent rifle, my lever action with a 2-10 scope or 22wmr semi with 1-4 scope.
Point being we went expecting a longer range hunt and ended up shooting most of the 50 goats at less than 50 mtr.
Z

Appreciate this, good points there to consider. Thanks.

To update this, I haven't yet made my mind up on the scope but have just discovered Arken Optics. Had a look through one the other day and they're pretty neat for the money. They seem to be a pretty hot topic in the ELR game at the moment as well. Not the lightest option but side by side with the pricey options it's becoming difficult to justify $1800+ extra...

My suggestion is again go with something low power and good low light capability. I assume you are looking at something short action in 7m08 or 308 and focus on your regular hunting in the north island so sub 400 mtr. If you talk with most hunters very few will have taken game past 300 mtrs.
When the time comes for a south island hunt you sould be confident in your current rifle and setup and you will know its limitations.
Then you can take the next step of a custom tops rifle but again most would use the rifle they know.

if you are dropping down to 6 or 6.5mm short action then there is a case to be made for a 3-15 or better scope as they have the flat shooting and higher velocity high BC Bullets that make you want to reach out a bit further and on smaller game.
Z

Originally Posted by ZQLewis

My suggestion is again go with something low power and good low light capability. I assume you are looking at something short action in 7m08 or 308 and focus on your regular hunting in the north island so sub 400 mtr. If you talk with most hunters very few will have taken game past 300 mtrs.
When the time comes for a south island hunt you sould be confident in your current rifle and setup and you will know its limitations.
Then you can take the next step of a custom tops rifle but again most would use the rifle they know.

if you are dropping down to 6 or 6.5mm short action then there is a case to be made for a 3-15 or better scope as they have the flat shooting and higher velocity high BC Bullets that make you want to reach out a bit further and on smaller game.
Z

This is what I'm mulling over. I'm assuming low power in this example you mean under 15x so something more like a 2-10, yeah?

Originally Posted by CalibreWalker

To update this, I haven't yet made my mind up on the scope but have just discovered Arken Optics. Had a look through one the other day and they're pretty neat for the money. They seem to be a pretty hot topic in the ELR game at the moment as well. Not the lightest option but side by side with the pricey options it's becoming difficult to justify $1800+ extra...

The problem with that is for general hunting you do not want a FFP scope and as far as I know all Arken scopes are FFP.

calibrewalker, I was refering to bottom end magnification,
for bush shooting a 1-2x bottom end is great but not always a practical bottom end as may people feel they still want a 14-16x top end.
My bush rifle started out with a 1-4x20 #4 reticale but I found myself taking a number of deer at 200-250 mtr ranges so I moved it up to a 1.5-6x42 illuminated #4 this was great but had an electrical issue and the nearest options I was offered were the Burris signature 3-15 or the Veracity 2-10 FFP which I went with.
Its a bit larger than i would like, a Lupie 2-8 or Kahles similer would look nicer

As far as top end, for most shooting a top end of 9-12x is enough, Again you are shooting a 308 family in 7mm or 308 I assume so with factory ammo 400 mtr is about your limit.
Thats a long way to shoot and for most people 300 mtr is more than far enough. Not many people shoot game past 300 mtr very often, even though it gets a lot of attention. In a field enviroment it's actually quite challenging.
Our NZDA branch 2 years back setup a hunter challenge shoot ahead of a group Sika hunt, standing at 50, kneeling at 100 and a prone gong 18" od at 300 mtr using hunting rifles. Not many hit it first shot.
Z

Originally Posted by zeropak

The problem with that is for general hunting you do not want a FFP scope and as far as I know all Arken scopes are FFP.

Zeropak, what is wrong with ffp for general hunting ? Can you give me some insight on this?
Cheers LMP

Here's my 2 cents..
Having had a few different scopes, VX3/5/6, Z5, Z8i, V4 and a few others.
Keep it simple! You don't need a huge big scope on your rifle to hunt deer/chamois/tahr etc and with a good reticle and knowing your rifle you don't even need adjustable turrets etc. I am a huge fan of the Z3 3-10 with BRX/BRH reticle. I've had a few of them now, gone back to a VX5, a Z5, then back to the Z3 again. I currently have a 3-10 Habicht AV 3-10x42 BRX (Austrian made version of the Z3) on my 270 and it's a brilliant bit of kit, they're light, the glass is great and they don't upset the balance of a hunting rifle. I've comfortably shot game out to as far as I ever have with a "big" scope with turrets etc. The VX3 3-10 is a good scope also with similar dimensions and weight but the swaro just walks all over them for glass quality and the eyebox on the swarovski is very forgiving compared to the fussy VX3 eyebox (the 4.5-14 VX3 is terrible)
For a budget friendly option I'd like to take a look at the Vixen range of scopes, I have their 2-8x32 with ballistic reticle on my short 308 and it's a great little scope, very good glass for the money, solidly built and the reticle is very functional, I haven't done a lot of actual hunting with it as yet but confident shooting a 6" gong at 400yds with it no problems.

Originally Posted by littlemorepork

Zeropak, what is wrong with ffp for general hunting ? Can you give me some insight on this?
Cheers LMP

with FFP the dimension of the reticle in relation to the target does not change. The advantage with this system is that the hash marks on the reticle are constant regardless of the magnification selected this is great if you use those hash marks for windage and/or elevation correction. However in a hunting situation with FFP this means the cross hair will look very fine at low magnification and coarse at high magnification, which in my opinion is exactly the opposite to want you want.
With SFP the opposite occurs and the cross hair appears finer at long range and coarser at short range in relation to the target, the hash marks can still be used for shot correction but they are only true to their stated MOA, or MIL at a certain scope power setting which is usually the highest magnification. In open country where shots are usually taken at longer ranges I guess FFP would be OK but for general hunting where short range shots can be expected then the FFP scope is at a disadvantage. One more thing, for me when shooting at longer ranges I always dial the elevation correction on the scope, I do no use hash marks for hold over, To me this is the most accurate way to set the elevation correction so the possible advantage that a FFP scope might have with the hash mark value remaining constant at various magnifications is a moot point.

I only use FFP scopes for hunting, there is no real disadvantage at all when you are accustomed to the FFP reticle and it allows you to hold wind accurately at any magnification, or correct for a missed shot (if you are able to spot the miss)



There is however no advantage to FFP if you are only bush hunting or shooting at close ranges (i.e. inside 200m)

I'm only using FFP scopes on my rifles, and with a properly designed reticle they give up nothing in close, and are significantly better at distance than SFP.

If the OP is open to Arken, then in a similar but possibly better vein I'd suggest a Athlon 2-12 x 44. I've got one on my SAUM (and my .22), and I've shot deer from 15-680m with it. For the money, I don't think they can be beaten. That said, my 280 has a March 3-24 FFP with the FML reticle and it is simply superb. I'm not a fan of NF FFP reticles for hunting, but have no arguments regarding their ability to drive tent pegs. I do own several hammers though, so don't need the crossover ability. (Take cover, incoming!)

As said above, ffp with properly designed reticles are fine. The best ffp reticle I can think off currently for the hunting market are :
The E1 on the Burris veracity. The branches of the reticle are thicker on the outside as you wind down the magnification. But thinner when you zoom in.

https://www.stoegercanada.ca/wp-cont...tic-E1-FFP.jpg

The reticle of the bushnell LRHS.
https://www.targettamers.com/wp-cont...-1024x1024.jpg

And this reticle from nightforce but only on their 1 to 8 scope:

https://armsvault.com/wp-content/upl...DM-Reticle.jpg

There might be others but this are my favourite ones.

@Ross Nolan I'm always open to listening to ideas which are counter to my own. I am genuinely interested in why you say that the FFP style scope is significantly better at long range. Assuming that you are using the correct ballistic data and using a decent quality scope which will dial accurately then surely the end result will be the same FFP vs SFP?

Holding wind and spotting/correcting for misses, on any magnification. There just isn't any reason to use SFP, it isn't better for anything

my Burris Veracity 2-10 has the E1 FFP, As Friwi says I'm found it a great retical. fat on the outer edges for fast shooting at low power and tappered very fine in the centre for precision at longer ranges.
On low power you are just shooting on the coarse tappered outer lines and don't use the fine inner cross.
Z