Thread: Scope musings

Originally Posted by zeropak

@Ross Nolan I'm always open to listening to ideas which are counter to my own. I am genuinely interested in why you say that the FFP style scope is significantly better at long range. Assuming that you are using the correct ballistic data and using a decent quality scope which will dial accurately then surely the end result will be the same FFP vs SFP?

The advantages for me of a well designed reticle - that is, one with side bars big enough to be useful at minimum magnification (possible tapered), a easy to read mill scale on both vertical and horizontal axes, side bars no more than 10 mills apart and preferably an illuminated aiming point in the centre include:
Accurate wind holds without shifting from position to move the windage turret
Accurate on the fly adjustments if, for example, a deer is feeding across a face and not holding a consistent distance
Zeroing is easy at any distance, using the reticle to measure the offset from aiming point and make adjustments accordingly
If you are using the reticle then you aren't making elevation adjustments that can be forgotten about - I've seen a shot taken, and then on the way to the animal a quick close shot miss over the top because the elevation wasn't wound back to zero

I'd ask what advantage sfp has over ffp other than a seemingly finer aiming point at distance? I've hit magpies out to 440m using a ffp scope, so I'm not sure the small target argument holds all that much water.

There is a bit of learning and undoing of stuff you have picked up over the years from using sfp, but for me the advantages are such that other than a fixed 4x on a 10-22 used exclusively for spotlighting possums and a red dot on a single shot 308, all of my rifles use ffp scopes.

The great thing about this sport is that everybody is free to look at things and work out what is best for them, and it doesn't impact on anyone else's enjoyment. Go for it.

Edit. It is probably worth mentioning that a lot of the shooting I do is at ranges where elevation adjustments are essential. If I was just bush hunting or limiting my shots to 300m, then ffp/sfp wouldn't matter.

Extra edit. Specifically to @Zeropac regarding distance, if your wind hold is (for example) 500mm at 500m, how do you do that? Guess at that based on the animals body size? What if it is a 80kg hind, not the 55kg or so you mistakenly estimated it at? With FFP, you just hold .1 mill on the scale and let it go. The maths is easy - we come (mostly) pre configured to count in 10, and that is what mills are all about.

Originally Posted by Ross Nolan

The advantages for me of a well designed reticle - that is, one with side bars big enough to be useful at minimum magnification (possible tapered), a easy to read mill scale on both vertical and horizontal axes, side bars no more than 10 mills apart and preferably an illuminated aiming point in the centre include:
Accurate wind holds without shifting from position to move the windage turret
Accurate on the fly adjustments if, for example, a deer is feeding across a face and not holding a consistent distance
Zeroing is easy at any distance, using the reticle to measure the offset from aiming point and make adjustments accordingly
If you are using the reticle then you aren't making elevation adjustments that can be forgotten about - I've seen a shot taken, and then on the way to the animal a quick close shot miss over the top because the elevation wasn't wound back to zero

I'd ask what advantage sfp has over ffp other than a seemingly finer aiming point at distance? I've hit magpies out to 440m using a ffp scope, so I'm not sure the small target argument holds all that much water.

There is a bit of learning and undoing of stuff you have picked up over the years from using sfp, but for me the advantages are such that other than a fixed 4x on a 10-22 used exclusively for spotlighting possums and a red dot on a single shot 308, all of my rifles use ffp scopes.

The great thing about this sport is that everybody is free to look at things and work out what is best for them, and it doesn't impact on anyone else's enjoyment. Go for it.

Edit. It is probably worth mentioning that a lot of the shooting I do is at ranges where elevation adjustments are essential. If I was just bush hunting or limiting my shots to 300m, then ffp/sfp wouldn't matter.

Extra edit. Specifically to @Zeropac regarding distance, if your wind hold is (for example) 500mm at 500m, how do you do that? Guess at that based on the animals body size? What if it is a 80kg hind, not the 55kg or so you mistakenly estimated it at? With FFP, you just hold .1 mill on the scale and let it go. The maths is easy - we come (mostly) pre configured to count in 10, and that is what mills are all about.

Hi Ross, Good answer, It did get me to thinking about FFP vs SFP. I also do most of my hunting at longer ranges so I have my set way on how I do this with SFP scopes. I always dial the elevation past about 250 metres (scopes are zeroed for 200m) If an animal is moving I will monitor this with the range finder, I am using a Leica 2800.com which gives me a ballistic solution. I have this set to give me either MOA or Mils depending on the scope I am using. I have never used Hash marks for holdover. The thing about windage is that it is never a precise calculation in my opinion, Across a gully you can have varying wind speeds at different distances, varying angles and gusting wind. All of this comes down to the wind hold being an educated guess, I prefer to simply hold for the wind and modify that hold "on the fly" if that wind hold starts to become around 40/50cm or more I would reconsider my decision to take the shot. I get what you say about using the hash marks for that windage hold but don't you then have to do the calculation as to what the hash mark represents at the distance the shot is being taken? Say your hash marks are 0.5 mil and your taking a shot at 545m and you have a 10 mph 90 degree cross wind which requires a 55cm compensation do not then need to calculate the value of those hash marks at that distance? I am curious as to how you would deal with this.