Thread: Selection of caliber for new shooter(s)

A .22 and a .243.
The .243 will have a better margin for error on goats than the .223 and that is what you intend on using it for.
If you find one with a 1:8" twist you can shoot the heavier projectiles out of it. If you decide to hunt deer they put them down very efficiently.
My 7 year old can shoot the .243 but there is no way I would ever let him shoot my .308. The recoil is notably different.

Greetings.
After reading @Grey Kiwi's post recommending the .30-30 it crossed my mind that the .308 can easily be downloaded with AR2206H to .30-30 velocity. Only a Lee Loader and perhaps a hand priming tool would be needed as the cases will never need full length sizing. You could use the cases from full power factory loads to load the light loads, The rifle would need to be re zeroed when changing from one load to the other but you can do this with a dial up scope without having to go to the range. You would still need a suppressor for the FP loads which would also tame the light loads. I already do this in one of my .308 rifles. The handloading process would likely appeal to the young chap as well. PM me if you want details on loads etc.
Regards Grandpamac.

I also had a thought. Factory .308 "Lite" cartridges produce less recoil than a standard .243 (I think). Could be an option.

Originally Posted by blip

As for a center fire the 243 seems to be making a come back. You dont actually need a different rifle for each different large animal you will hunt. If it were me Id look at 243 or 6.5x55 if you want an all rounder. Me personally I started with a 6.5x55 40 years ago and still use one. Just pick one and become proficient with it and youll be fine. Dont worry about trying to win a fashion parade or pissing contest they all kill animals, simple as that

With all the talk of 243 I was also going to suggest the 6.5x55. They seem more comfortable for slight/ smaller shooters than the likes of 308 etc.

One point I do agree with is the 22LR. but for newer shooters wanting to practise with centrefire I would also throw 7.62x39 and 308 into the mix. Cheaper ammo / bigger selection of factory ammo means practice with something bigger than a 22 can be useful. If it is expensive to shoot (I call $3 shot expensive....) then you tend to become conservative on how many rounds you want to use for practise and sighting in.

Some of the pistol calibres can be good for practise but the likes of 7.62x39 and the pistol calbres are not much good out past 100m.

If you put a suppressor on your centrefire it can tame a lot of the recoil..(or at least feel like it is tamer...) so is well worth spending the money on.

Also do you think you will be reloading as that will open up your options as well

Originally Posted by timattalon

If you put a suppressor on your centrefire it can tame a lot of the recoil..(or at least feel like it is tamer...) so is well worth spending the money on.

This comment - I just flicked through the thread looking for this and wasn't able to find it. In my view, a suppressor is a must do for anything centerfire with new shooters. Most shooters can handle the recoil of .308 ammo in the standard factory loads (150gr standard recoil loads) including some fairly slightly built women I've worked with on the range and hunting. A lot of kids in the 11+ age range and sizes also handle the recoil fine with appropriate coaching (a lot of girls are actually physically bigger than the same age boy at this stage as they seem to grow to 'size' earlier then go through their move to adult status which is usually when they stop being able to handle being given instructions etc etc but I digress).

Suppressors tame the worst factor of the experience, the shear noise and the slap in the face from the muzzle blast which induces a lot of the physical reaction in the average inexperienced shooter. One other point to make, losing an animal is one thing as it's disappointing to take a shot and not get the reward but worse is shooting and severely wounding an animal and then having to track and complete the kill. That's something that a lot of people new to hunting struggle with, and it is the main reason why I don't recommend anything smaller than the 7-08 or 308 size cartridges. Things like .270's have more muzzle blast everything being equal, and the newer cartridges like the 6.5's and short fat things just don't have the amount of ammo available off the shelf reliably which can mean having to re-zero all the time.

Originally Posted by longshot

Beyond 75 takes a bit of practice and skill, but it is achievable. Having a rangefinder and a ballistic reticle makes it fairly easy once you know where the drop is (thats where the practice comes in). You can suppress a .22 to the point that someone standing 25m away wouldn't know you have squeezed the trigger unless they were listening, but you can't silence a .17 anywhere near as effectively.

If you are out shooting rabbits with a suppressed .22 you will usually see more rabbits within 100m then you will see inside of 200m once you start letting off a few rounds of .17.
.22 is also about 80% cheaper than the .17.

As someone who has both calibres I can say that while the .17 is a great little caliber, it doesn't come out of the safe anywhere near as much as the .22 and when it does, the .22 usually comes with it to hold it's hand.

Yeah nah. I have a suppressed 22 that is click only with subs. I have a rangefinder and a ballistic reticle - I can shoot it accurate out to 100m. I find that beyond 50m you get diminishing effectiveness on lethality of the subs.

I also have a 17hmr, it doesn't need any ballistics drop up to about 120m. My son headshot a bunny at 180m with it. We are regularly taking bunnies beyond a 100m. It has a DPT can (22 mag setup), and while it removes the boom the supersonic crack remains which does not seem to impact how many bunnies we come across. Yes the ammo is more expensive, but one shot and you're done. It remains absolutely lethal at whatever range we shoot at but just enough such that we can recover the meat.

So now our 22s (got 3 of them) remain in the safe most of the time.

edit: that said I would still start off with a 22, starting you kids shooting at 25m then move them out to 50m. When it comes to plinking at the range you can't beat a 22 as a training platform. And the drop becomes quite useful as a training aid for when they move up in calibres.

Some great responses here gents, thank you. We've decided on a .22LR to start and looking at Tikka T1X (current preference, since the follow up rifle will likely be a T3X) or CZ 457 with a good scope (not a cheap scope, but not one that is silly money either!). Definitely will have a suppressor and bipod. A friend of mine has a CZ Bruno (nickel stainless, synthetic stock; I don't recall the scope, but I think it was a Burris). He doesn't use it any more so will allow us 'unlimited use' once I get my FAL and can store and transport it legally. The gun safe is now installed and I submitted my FAL application online on Friday. Meanwhile, I'm taking young fella to the range to use the club's T1X every other week or so to keep him interested and build his skill. We'll be able to send a lot of rounds down the range with the .22 and then go hunt bunnies with my friend until we work out the rest of it. The great info in this thread will help a lot when deciding the follow-up rifle and I'll revisit this thread when it comes time to do that. Thanks so much for all your input, very much appreciated.

Yup bolt action 22 first up. If you hone your stalking skills enough you will take goats with this too.
For a center fire other options that would be with a look would be 6mm arc, 6.5 grendel and the 7.62x39. the later having great options for cheaper ammo also. I certainly wouldn't go bigger than a 708 first up. Suppose all the Creedmoor variants would be pretty useful also

Originally Posted by Remmodel7

Yup bolt action 22 first up. If you hone your stalking skills enough you will take goats with this too.
For a center fire other options that would be with a look would be 6mm arc, 6.5 grendel and the 7.62x39. the later having great options for cheaper ammo also. I certainly wouldn't go bigger than a 708 first up. Suppose all the Creedmoor variants would be pretty useful also

The issue I have with shooting goats with a .22 is finding them somewhere you're actually allowed to shoot it!!
It's about time DOC updated their rules especially if they want their pest issues lessened...

Once you have both been shooting the .22 a bit, you could ask nicely at the club or here, to have a shot with a few different calibers before you sink money on anything. Best done after you have already done a bit of shooting so you know a bit more about what you’re looking for.

I have a rule when I am at the range, that if someone offers me a shot with their firearm, I always accept. Over the years I have had and taken the opportunity to fire some very interesting rifles and pistols.

I also try and make a point of offering same to anyone who might get something out of shooting something different if I have something different with me on the day, or even just anyone who shows interest in what I am using, is usually offered a shot or two.

Originally Posted by BushChook

The issue I have with shooting goats with a .22 is finding them somewhere you're actually allowed to shoot it!!
It's about time DOC updated their rules especially if they want their pest issues lessened...

you can apply for the use of a .22 on DOC land for bunnys but that would be about it - but good luck getting it - most DOC staff dont even know a hunter can do that lol

Originally Posted by Barry the hunter

you can apply for the use of a .22 on DOC land for bunnys but that would be about it - but good luck getting it - most DOC staff dont even know a hunter can do that lol

I haven't tried, but I've been told DOC down here in chch don't give out small game permits for anything except shotgun for birds.
Gonna inquire about it down rangitata gorge ways though, last time I was there it was bunny city. The place was absolutely crawling with them, got one under a 4x4 tyre but would have been easy pickings with a .22

Originally Posted by BushChook

I haven't tried, but I've been told DOC down here in chch don't give out small game permits for anything except shotgun for birds.
Gonna inquire about it down rangitata gorge ways though, last time I was there it was bunny city. The place was absolutely crawling with them, got one under a 4x4 tyre but would have been easy pickings with a .22

What is covered by a small game permit
The small game hunting permit covers:

rabbit
hares, and
Canada geese

its on their web site good luck may be see if you can photo copy the piece and take it along many front of office staff very unaware whats allowed

piece of piss to get one around here..... its the same form as the gamebird permit..... and just as easy to get.
we have very very few goats within 2 hour drive but do have lots of bouncy Ozzie overstayers that are suseptable to a .22lr if encountered while chasing hares.