Sporterised Lee Enfields - accuracy ??

Hello Guys

I've just stared my testing program with the No 4 Mk 2 that I'm planning to turn into a MSR (well my take on a Modern Sporting Rifle anyway)

I'd be interested in what sort of accuracy other folks are achieving with good sporterised (scoped and with handloads tuned to the rifle) 303's. Mine has shot two 3 shot groups so far (125 gn sierra's with 30 gns VV N110 behind them) and seems to be doing about 2-3" groups (somewhat inconclusive cause a scope ring failed) which was pretty pleasing given no tuning yet and the limitations we are working under just now (no decent scope rings). The velocities with N110 were very consistent (2603 fps average with an ES of just 18 fps) so thats gotta help.

I haven't had a scope on my (deceased) Dads BSA sporterised No 1 Mk 3 for 30 years, when I did it shot just around 2" with Mk VII ball

Thoughts ??

Im also interested to know what accuracy other people are getting out of old enfield barrels. I have a Lithgow MkII* which does 3" groups with PPU (No optics). Ive yet to try handloads in it.

I have a MK 3* scoped that will do 1,5" with 180 gr flat base hand loads, the others 2"-4"( I have 7 303's )

I've done a few and given that the barrel is still good, accuracy is normally quite good. My dad's no4 mk2 would group well under 1 MOA all day long.

I would normally cut three inches off the original barrel, crown it, thread it for silencer use, bed the front end, drill and tap to mount a scope.

Worked on the trigger.

No4mk2 is a good rifle to work with (as long as it’s already been sporterised) trigger hung and will have a newer barrel, slug the bore, see what that comes in at, Ive had bores out to .318, there are a raft of things that can be done to the 303’s , my pick would have been the p14 as that’s a one piece stock, which that in itself is a big plus over the smle and no4’s stock configuration I’ll post a really good article I got of a mate around the accuracy of the 303, I’ve reloaded, cast my own projectiles, done a shit ton of little tricks and some just keep to the 3-4 inch groups, others my fav 3 CAN do sub moa, others projectiles sideways at 25 meters, but that’s the fun part

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Originally Posted by Klhari

I've done a few and given that the barrel is still good, accuracy is normally quite good. My dad's no4 mk2 would group well under 1 MOA all day long.

I would normally cut three inches off the original barrel, crown it, thread it for silencer use, bed the front end, drill and tap to mount a scope.

Worked on the trigger.

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A few details on how to treat the forend of a No4 Mk2 would be great, I have two, one is free floated, the other (which I can't shoot yet) is bedded (sort of). Thanks

Chasing Lee Enfield Accuracy - All About EnfieldsAll About Enfields

Also the rifle was designed around 174gr projectile, I had some luck when I first started before I played with real distance work with the 180 rn mainly due to their diameter and bearing surface.

I managed to acquire some old target projectiles, but I’m not sure if you can get them anymore?

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Originally Posted by Tertle

No4mk2 is a good rifle to work with (as long as it’s already been sporterised) trigger hung and will have a newer barrel, slug the bore, see what that comes in at, Ive had bores out to .318, there are a raft of things that can be done to the 303’s , my pick would have been the p14 as that’s a one piece stock, which that in itself is a big plus over the smle and no4’s stock configuration I’ll post a really good article I got of a mate around the accuracy of the 303, I’ve reloaded, cast my own projectiles, done a shit ton of little tricks and some just keep to the 3-4 inch groups, others my fav 3 CAN do sub moa, others projectiles sideways at 25 meters, but that’s the fun part

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I have slugged the bores of both I have (but 5 groves are hard to measure accurately) and both are pretty good, around .312 at most, however I've had good luck in other rifles with "current manufacture" projectiles which seem to be more tolerant of obituating up or squeezing down than I recall of efforts 20 or 30 years ago . . .

Thats a great article, I've read it and I also have Roger Wadham's "online book" but most stuff isn't so relevant to sporterised No4 Mk 2's with sporting projectiles

yip use the 180s.......at end of day if its going to be a HUNTING rifle....and more than likely a BUSH HUNTING rifle...well its pretty much a given that 300 yards will be a long shot,so 2-3inches CONSISTANT groups will kill any deer any day of the week without a problem.
guys get all hung up on having to shoot 1/2" groups........yip they are nice BUT not necessary.
those ATI synthetic stocks do look rather good on the old girls.

I’m going to keep my eye out for a No4mk1/2 FTR and make a hunting rifle out of it, given all the lee’s I owned I’ve never had a dedicated sporterised hunting rifle, I’ll see if I can find load data for you as well, I’ve not done a lot of work on them in a while, I think I’ve couple of Rogers CD’s, clever bugger!

I had a few new ex army 303's back in 1960's. Used apeture sights on two that I shot out and then a 2 1/2 power bushnel onthe last one. I shot several Tahr and chamois at 2-400 yards with that rifle and many deer and pigs with all of them at all sorts of ranges. Used all ex army ball ammo 174 grain with tips filed off till a pinhead sixed lead or crayon wax was visible. Always went for shoulder shots and lost bugger all animals.

Tentman, remove the top wood, shorten the bottom wood - just shy of the first steel belt/loop.

To prepare the rifle for bedding Ill run masking tape around the barrel(in the area where the wood stops) to keep a gap of 2mm between the barrel and the wood.
I'll bed the area around the recoil lug, making sure to bed the area under the barrel as well - 1.5 inches infront of the action.

The tension created on the frontend between the front action screw and the small bolt that goes right through the wood (near the back end) will keep the wood away from the barrel.

Nethan Foster has a very nice youtube video about bedding a Lee Enfield no4 mk 1. Google it if you could?

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Originally Posted by mimms2

Depends. I like to shoot shit in the brain, and take all the meat.

I'm sure plenty on here shoot for backstraps and rumps and leave the rest to rot. Fine. If you've got access to plenty. But seems a waste to me.

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what a load of crap......I shot 2 big red hinds last year with 140grn sp from the .270 both were shot at 300-350 yards both fell over after a shot death run...I lost about a cup full of meat off one shoulder on one deer and about the same with the other.....
what makes you think the rest of animal is left to rot????
shooting shit in the brain is fine UNLESS it moves and you blow its jaw off so it dies a lingering death......
see some of us shoot animals in the big vital bit for a reason,I like to be sure its going down fast so I can take it all home to the freezer.
people in glass houses shouldnt throw stones.

They are not expensive, the most I've paid is $350 for an example with a "9 out of 10" barrel - it got held up in the lockdown so I don't have it in hand yet. The two that I do were only $105 (no bolt, but nice barrel still full length, which is a bit of a shame as it would restore well except that its been drilled and tapped) and I think the other one was $240, its got a Parker Hale sporter stock that will be surplus once I make the new ones . . . I'll also have some spare scope mounts.

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Originally Posted by Tertle

Chasing Lee Enfield Accuracy - All About EnfieldsAll About Enfields

Also the rifle was designed around 174gr projectile, I had some luck when I first started before I played with real distance work with the 180 rn mainly due to their diameter and bearing surface.

I managed to acquire some old target projectiles, but I’m not sure if you can get them anymore?

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Really good read, cheers for that.

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Originally Posted by Klhari

Tentman, remove the top wood, shorten the bottom wood - just shy of the first steel belt/loop.

To prepare the rifle for bedding Ill run masking tape around the barrel(in the area where the wood stops) to keep a gap of 2mm between the barrel and the wood.
I'll bed the area around the recoil lug, making sure to bed the area under the barrel as well - 1.5 inches infront of the action.

The tension created on the frontend between the front action screw and the small bolt that goes right through the wood (near the back end) will keep the wood away from the barrel.

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Thanks

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Originally Posted by Woody

I had a few new ex army 303's back in 1960's. Used apeture sights on two that I shot out and then a 2 1/2 power bushnel onthe last one. I shot several Tahr and chamois at 2-400 yards with that rifle and many deer and pigs with all of them at all sorts of ranges. Used all ex army ball ammo 174 grain with tips filed off till a pinhead sixed lead or crayon wax was visible. Always went for shoulder shots and lost bugger all animals.

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Thanks Woody. My Dads old No1 Mk3 (a really good BSA sporterised one) shoots pretty good with open sights. We had an ANZAC day shoot last year, 5 shots standing at 100, 5 sitting at 200 and 5 prone at 300 with "as issued" sights. All of my shots bar 2 would have cleanly killed a deer with a chest shot, but for hunting at first and last light (does anybody bother at any other time) you cant beat a scope even if you can shoot well with open sights

Quite like the idea of a 303 in an old Ramline stock, bedded with apeture sights and take it hunting, as long as you can hit a litre coke bottle at 200yds, should be all good, be wearing an old set of Buller lace ups and a blue swannie when I do!

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Originally Posted by 257weatherby

Really good read, cheers for that.

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A little off topic but thanks, I’ve some surgery comming up on my back so I’m going to finally sit down and tidy the site up, bit agricultural in parts, irony is I put it together when I had my first back op!

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Originally Posted by Tentman

Thats a great article, I've read it and I also have Roger Wadham's "online book" but most stuff isn't so relevant to sporterised No4 Mk 2's with sporting projectiles

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I downloaded Wadhams online book the other day.
Thought it would come in handy for my project.
Stock is a bit rough but realistically a lot less work to modify for accuracy than my other fore ends.
The original beds well up against the wrist and not to badly against the recoil lugs but does need some on the sides. Plus some splits.
Interesting to note the minimal bedding pad on the barrel. Smaller was better and that included spotters I think
Bedding/supporting all the areas at the rear of the stock and recoil lugs along with the main screw and the small bedding pad is meant to to wonders if the rifle is capable.
It also gets into equal bearing surfaces on the locking lugs as also important.
Btw how do you get those little brass rivets at the rear of the stock?

Greetings All,
There are 2 No 4 Mk 1 .303's in my old soldiers cupboard, one British made and the other Canadian. The Brit (5 groove barrel) has a Parker Hale 5c sight and shoots as well as I can, 30 mm at 60 m. The Canuck (near new 2 groove barrel) has a 2.5 power scope and puts two shots touching at 60 m often enough not to entirely be chance. Both are loaded with light loads and 174 grain round nose projectiles. The scoped rifle seems to like a velocity of about 2,050 fps and has quite a short throat which likely helps.
Regards Grandpamac.

I had a III* with Lithgow barrel
Fully free floated forend and own comb and pistol grip. Copper shims but otherwise bedded on wood.
After 30 years it benefited from judicious stoning of the trigger but lost some function. First stage wouldn't flick forward when released.
150gr worked better than 125gr
Lee loader. Norma brass.
2-7 vx1 on collings bridge mount PH then CZ rings
Borescope showed severe cobblestoneing in the throat and real deep pits more like potholes all down the barrel.
Shot 1.5"
used it once in a jungle lane shoot but was roundly beaten by SKS and AR guys.

I've got a old SHTLE 1916 that's beyond restoring.

Thinking of shortening it to 10mm longer than legal length and adding a limb saver for a bit more lee way(pun intended).

Suppressed with a red dot mounted where the rear sight is running 174gr SMKs. Should be deadly for the bush

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Originally Posted by Rock river arms hunter

I've got a old SHTLE 1916 that's beyond restoring.

Thinking of shortening it to 10mm longer than legal length and adding a limb saver for a bit more lee way(pun intended).

Suppressed with a red dot mounted where the rear sight is running 174gr SMKs. Should be deadly for the bush

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You not afraid SMKs will keyhole, especially inside the suppressor? Deadly in the bush right enough.

Mine shoots at least as good as I can with the open sights which is probably 3moa, it shoots 150s well but has had a new barrel fitted.

The best performance I have ever got from a sporterised SMLE was a vertically strung 5-shot group, 19mm x 36mm at 100 yards with late '50s CAC Mk VII ball (probably the best .303 ammo ever made). The vertical stringing was because of the light barrel that I had removed all the iron sights from and fitted a 4x32 'Stalker' scope That was my own rifle that I got as a present for my 16th birthday as a new, fully-wooded, FTR'd BSA from Ian Ballinger's shop in 1963. I hunted with it for about 18 months in its as-issued condition before I relented and sporterised it. I got third place in the NZDA 100 yards champs with it (1st and 2nd were both .222's). I went on to use that rifle when professionally shooting in Marlborough in 1966 so it racked up a lot of kills. In my collection I have two Parker Hale standard sporters (SMLE and No.4) that are in brand new condition in every respect. I can't focus clearly on iron sights these days but it would be nice to find out how they shoot.

303's are great guns, ive always had a soft spot for them(mainly my shoulder:thumbsup:).
Cool memories out with dad on the farm in the Naki back in the 80's with an old SMLE that one of his uncles had brought back for WW2.
Ive had best results from my No4, Mk2 & mates 175 gn handloads or S&B factory ammo, 1.5 - 2"@ 100m, has been re-barrelled tho & of course a scope on it.
Shot same ammo out of new H barrel SMLE and a minter PH supreme sporter, but they couldn't touch the no4, mk2(or maybe it was me...……)
Got a couple of No4's im trying with a suppressor, work in progress regarding accuracy there.
I foresee them having a resurgence in popularity due to our fekwit govt.

I used to be happy with trusty mk4 no2, hitting 5 half-bricks in a row, laid end facing me, so about 8cm X 10cm... Very satisfying, reactive targets! Hunting accurate, back in the day. Scope was a 4x32 Tasco and I honestly believe that the rifle was more accurate than the scope.

My old shortened SMLE (17-ish inches? Maybe 18?) shoots 5 Highland 150's into about 3 inches at 100. And that was with a 2.5 x scope. It has a 2-7 on now which should suit my eyes better. Going to get a Lee Loader for it soon to have a play with :-) I won't post a pic because I've done it a few times in other posts :)

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Originally Posted by Rock river arms hunter

I've got a old SHTLE 1916 that's beyond restoring.

Thinking of shortening it to 10mm longer than legal length and adding a limb saver for a bit more lee way(pun intended).

Suppressed with a red dot mounted where the rear sight is running 174gr SMKs. Should be deadly for the bush

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I've gone down the same path with an old Lee Enfield that i had unused in the gun safe.
Added a few accessories that weren't being used and tracked down a replacement stock

Its accurate enough, well balanced and enjoyable to shoot

My only issue is that i keep swapping between the red dot and a 1-4 scope

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